Autostalker: Grossly misdescribed items.

kbolster12345 · Post by **kbolster12345** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:10 pm

Described as everything current and either assembled or in the process of assembly. Nothing was said about paint or conversions. About half the models were painted very very thickly and were OOP.

Copy of his post. Much of correspondence is under that. His edit was after I and another asked if everything was current...

autostalker
( 30 )
BTown Regular

Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 74

Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: Empire Blowout!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's The Empire Army I started, it was designed for speed and is going for the mounted theme. Plus the models look sweet and everything is in the assembly or assembled stage. Everything is current except the pistoleers and the warrior priests.
-Army Book
-Elector Count on Griffon
-Elector Count on Pegasus
-Elector Count on Horse
-3 Captains on pegasus
-Balthasar Gelt
-Luthor Huss
-2 mounted Warrior Priests
-4 warrior priests
-master engineer
-6 pistoleers
-23 knights
-2 helblasters
-3 cannons
-2 mortars
-30 crossbow man
-8 handgunners
-10 flagellants

Ok thats a list of everything, I'm trying to sell as a lot. I'll let go of everything for 50% retail plus shipping.
_________________
http://world3.monstersgame.co.uk/?ac=vid&vid=38023798

Last edited by autostalker
( 30 ) on Thu May 31, 2007 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

Compliation of correspondence:

It's clear to see that with exception of what was noted everything should be current including the book. The book was the 6th edition version not 7th.

Quote:
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: Empire Blowout!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's The Empire Army I started, it was designed for speed and is going for the mounted theme. Plus the models look sweet and everything is in the assembly or assembled stage. Everything is current except the pistoleers and the warrior priests.
-Army Book
-Elector Count on Griffon
-Elector Count on Pegasus
-Elector Count on Horse
-3 Captains on pegasus
-Balthasar Gelt
-Luthor Huss
-2 mounted Warrior Priests
-4 warrior priests
-master engineer
-6 pistoleers
-23 knights
-2 helblasters
-3 cannons
-2 mortars
-30 crossbow man
-8 handgunners
-10 flagellants

Ok thats a list of everything, I'm trying to sell as a lot. I'll let go of everything for 50% retail plus shipping.
_________________
http://world3.monstersgame.co.uk/?ac=vid&vid=38023798

Last edited by autostalker
( 30 ) on Thu May 31, 2007 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

Quote:
From: kbolster12345 ( 92 )
To: autostalker
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:20 pm
Subject: Empire

I am interested in your empire stuff. What edition is it?

Quote:
From: autostalker ( 30 )
To: kbolster12345
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:00 am
Subject: Re: Empire
Everythings current accept the pistoliers and warrior priests.

Quote:
From: kbolster12345 ( 92 )
To: autostalker
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:01 pm
Subject: Empire offer
Hey,

I am not sure if your Empire stuff is available but I waited a couple of days to see if you would be willing to sell this.

-Army Book
-Elector Count on Pegasus
-2 mounted Warrior Priests
-Engineer
-6 pistoleers (if your willing to discount off current retail. I know these guys were pretty expensive during six.)
-2 helblasters
-2 mortars
-30 crossbow man

I get roughly $114.5 so I would imagine around $120 with shipping.

Quote:
From: autostalker ( 30 )
To: kbolster12345
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:19 pm
Subject: Re: Empire offer
That sounds reasonable, i'm still looking to sell as a whole but if i dont get any other offers they're yours.

Quote:
I am wondering if you have made a deal or not yet? I can offer this $$$ for the above items or I can offer an Ogre Army and $80 for your enitre list. Here is the list of the army below...

Scrag the slaughterer (NISB)
Hunter (Assembled, primed, thin basecoat on cats)
6 Trappers
6 Bulls (assembled well primed black)
3 bellowers (some flesh done on some)
20 gnoblars
4 Leadbelchers (primed)
Scraplauncher
Giant (Albion Giant Catchtorr. Stripped and was once assembled)

I haven't figured out what that is retail for retail but I bet it's in your favor.

Quote:
From: autostalker ( 30 )
To: kbolster12345
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:24 pm
Subject: Re: Empire offer
It comes to $287 retail without the bellowers because i wasnt sure what they were. Do you have the army book? I wouldnt mind doing this trade but you would need to add a little more then $80.

Quote:
From: kbolster12345 ( 92 )
To: autostalker
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:19 am
Subject: Re: Empire offer
Bellowers are Ogre Musicians. They can join Ogre Bulls, Iron Guts and Leadbelchers. They are used alot because of the bonus in leadership when fleeing. the old bait, flee, counter charge trick.

So basically they are like three more Ogre Bulls. Anyone that uses Leadbelchers or Ironguts to make them must have more $$$ then brains.

What are you using for Captains on Pegasuses (or what ever plural of pegasus is)?

So how much more are we talking? I can understand and appreciate trying to equal things out.

You got retail of my stuff at roughly $300 including bellowers (probably little higher but using round #'s is good).

I get your stuff at roughly $499.

What do you say to my stuff plus $110? That's the difference of retail, minus 50% of what's left over, plus about $10.

Thanks
Kevin

Quote:
From: autostalker ( 30 )
To: kbolster12345
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:43 am
Subject: Re: Empire offer
For the pegasus captains i'm using bretonian pegasus knights just with empire model riders. Your things+$110 i can do that.

Quote:
From: autostalker ( 30 )
To: kbolster12345
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:04 pm
Subject: Re: Empire offer
Ok that works, your giving me the army book to right? I'll send out tomorrow or thursday priority it should be there in 2 days. If you could ship when i give you the conformation number that would be great.

Quote:
From: kbolster12345 ( 92 )
To: autostalker
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:21 am
Subject: Re: Empire offer
hey,

Forgot to add in my book. I can through that in and it's a little more in your favor.

Quote:
Great! Do you think you can ship soon. It makes a difference because I like to have stuff shipped to work but I am a teacher and odviously time is short before summer! Since your rating is less than half mine I am going to ask you send first. Actually I guess your rating is high enough that I could send when I get a Delivery Confirmation number from you.

Please send to...

Kevin Bolster
Elbridge Elementary
130 East Main St.
Elbridge NY 13108

And just to put everything in one simple message, we have...

My $110 plus...
Scrag the slaughterer (NISB)
Hunter (Assembled, primed, thin basecoat on cats)
6 Trappers
6 Bulls (assembled well primed black)
3 bellowers (some flesh done on some)
20 gnoblars
4 Leadbelchers (primed)
Scraplauncher
Giant (Albion Giant Catchtorr. Stripped and was once assembled)

Yours...
-Army Book
-Elector Count on Griffon
-Elector Count on Pegasus
-Elector Count on Horse
-3 Captains on pegasus
-Balthasar Gelt
-Luthor Huss
-2 mounted Warrior Priests
-4 warrior priests
-master engineer
-6 pistoleers
-23 knights
-2 helblasters
-3 cannons
-2 mortars
-30 crossbow man
-8 handgunners
-10 flagellants

Quote:
From: kbolster12345 ( 92 )
To: autostalker
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:08 pm
Subject: Re: Empire offer
Just asking if you sent yet? I am going to get everything packed up tonight.

Quote:
From: autostalker ( 30 )
To: kbolster12345
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:23 am
Subject: Re: Empire offer
Hey man, Sorry for the delayed response my computer caught an adware bug and wouldnt let me load my internet. I hate to cancel on this but I've been wieghed down on time lately due to finals and I just got jumped with getting sent to take the ASVAB. I won't be getting back until sunday and shipping would be Monday. If you dont mind the wait I'll still send Monday but if not I understand. Sorry for the inconvience.

Quote:
Just making sure that we are still on for tomorrow (Monday).

Thanks
Kevin

Quote:
From: autostalker ( 30 )
To: kbolster12345
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: Empire offer
Ok heres the code for the package...
0306 2400 0000 6072 8273

and i shipped the army book in an envelope because i forgot to pack it in with the pox so heres that code....
0306 2400 0000 6072 8266

Just let me know when you ship and transfer the money.

Quote:
From: kbolster12345 ( 92 )
To: autostalker
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:29 pm
Subject: Re: Empire offer
Package sent.

DC:
03063030000353773784

Includes a Postal Money Order for $110.

Thanks
Kevin

I edited out some messages of "Did you ship yet?" and so forth.

kbolster12345 · Post by **kbolster12345** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:24 pm

I can add to the list that the Pegasus Captains had Brett knight Modles glued to them.

insidius · Post by **insidius** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:39 pm

Ok, you need to include in detail what was actually wrong with the items you received. How were they received? What were you expecting?

Have you tried resolving this with the trader before posting a BTR? Has he responded since the trade concluded? What was his response, if any?

More details, please.

flagg07 · Post by **flagg07** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:55 pm

You definitely need to detail exactly what is wrong with the items you received. I have a good idea based on your posts in the ? area, but you need to "paint a picture" here describing how it was misrepresented with the assumption that nobody reading this has read your question posts or knows that those posts are even related.

kbolster12345 · Post by **kbolster12345** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:32 am

I am very bussy this weekend but here is recient volley of correspondence we have had. Trust me this is one of his nice messages. In another he insulted me by bringing my new born baby into the discution.

autostalker wrote:Well i'm not sure if you know this or not but last editions crossbowmen have not been changed, there aren't any newer ones, atelast that i could find, So its fine if you just wanna ship everything back and we'll just trade back, but mostly what i sent you that was broken or painted heavily on was just random things like free company and halberdier men that weren't suppose to be there and i didnt really want. Luthor Huss is pretty much the only other model I can think of. Hey it's fine if you dont want any of it i'll take it back, I think I might try out the all calv army. If not choose what you want to trade for and lets finish this.

Here's the crossbow men. I am not sure where you get your misinformation but here are the new xbowmen.
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/stor ... GameNav=13

Luthor Huss should have been described as painted.

The Pistoleers were plastic conversion. Not the metal sixth.

The Pegasus captains that you described as being bret pegasus knights with Empire Captains were bret pegasus knights with bret knights glued on.

The book that was described as current was sixth edition. I am sure you knew that one.

The cannons had paint on them.

This is just what I quickly noticed at work. I didn't even bother to bring them home because they arent what I was told they were. So I haven't even been through all the bitz and stuff to make sure all the models are there.

I hope you enjoy the all mounted army. I think it is a great idea and would work very well. I was really looking forward to playing it and I am sad that I won't get to play as soon as I hoped.

I would like my stuff mailed back Monday. I will not send first because I have no faith that what you tell me is truth. As you can see there was alot of misleading and non disclosure in your descriptions.

I will mail your stuff as soon as I see that my stuff has been safely returned and is in the condition I sent it to you in.

kbolster12345 · Post by **kbolster12345** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:45 am

Okay on top of what is listed above...

About half the models have paint. And it's heavy. Soooooo heavy there aren't even facial features. I don't think it's normal model paint. I have never seen anything this globy and I have been in the game for about 15 years.

His items were in the "assembly" stage according to his description and current except for 8-10 models. But when I got them everything all the models turned out as being 6th or earlier.

As you can see that's also alot of models. When i recieved everything it was also just dumped into a box. And by dumped I mean there was a folded layer of bubble wrap on the bottom and all the models were poored into the box. This is a seperate issue but on top of everything I can say there was a huge lack of respect for a fellow trader on his part. there was certainly no intrest from him to make sure his trade partner was happy. He is saying that the painted models were "added" but they aren't.

insidius · Post by **insidius** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:49 am

Have you tried resolving this with the trader before posting a BTR? Has he responded since the trade concluded? What was his response, if any?

kbolster12345 · Post by **kbolster12345** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:08 am

He has responded and we have agreed to send everything back. He, however, wants ME to send FIRST because he thinks I am going to ripp HIM off. I mean come on. Someone grossly misdescribes his models in an advious attempt to trade me a pile of junk and he's afraid that I am going to rip him off?

This is an odvious attempt to mislead me into trading a large of ammount of models and money for items he couldn't give away if he gave an honest description. Therefore IMHO deserving of this post.

Lets look at the facts.

HIM: Everything is current
FACT: Nothing that has been newly released is current

HIM: Pistolleers aren't current
FACT: They aren't even pistoleers. They are captains with Pistol arms.

HIm: Pegasus Captains are bretonian pegasus' with Empire mounts
FACT: They are pegasus bretonian pegasus' with bretonian pegasus' mounts GLUED on.

HIM: Everything is in the assembly phase of assembled
FACT: about half were painted. Some decent but some so poorly they looked like beaky space marin helmets. I hope I have time to take a picture of these models for everyone's enjoyment. The paint is like plastic. I have never seen anything like it.

kbolster12345 · Post by **kbolster12345** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:54 am

So it cost me over $10 to send him my stuff. Stuff I never would have sent if I knew the true nature condition of his models. He flat out lied to me about the condition, what the models actually were and edition. Now I will have to spend $12 (or more) to send his stuff back the same way I recieved it. I intend to send it back in the same packages with the same packaging he sent it to me.

So now we are talking over $20 to resolve a trade I was lied to in order to get me to trade. This sort of behavior needs to be stopped. I really don't care that he had to (or has to) spend money to send stuff to me. This trade never would have happened if he was honest in his description and didn't mislead me.

It's not $20 he is stealing but it is $20 out of my pocket that I NEVER would have spent if it wasn't for his decietfull actions.

Can I add to the above list of complaints...

I still haven't found enough bitz to make 1 hellblaster let alone the 2 he said he had. I won't find them because I am not going to touch these models anymore. These are now going to be packaged and I will wait for my stuff to be returned. I suspect there are other models like

flagg07 · Post by **flagg07** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:11 pm

Tough luck man

I hope the trade ref you leave, regardless of Good, Bad or Neutral atleast mentions exactly what happened with this trade. Future trade partners should see that he misrepresented a significant portion of a significant trade, regardless if it was unintentional.

He wants you to send his stuff back 1st? No way man, and definitely don't ship until you've inventoried everything you got back. He can pay for any damage to what you originally sent him. As far as shipping his items back to him, I'd avoid doing the same haphazard packing he did. If for nothing else to keep him from pitching a fit about anything that got broken and trying to blame you for it. Additionally, I'd send him a list of exactly what was broken due to his packaging to cover your rear.

Tough call on the shipping fees you incurred. I completely see your point. Had his descriptions been accurate, this never would have happened. On the other hand, the $$ might not be worth the hassle of getting him to pay up. Your choice, time and effort or money?

kbolster12345 · Post by **kbolster12345** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:07 am

At this point I need a Moderator to step in. It's odvious we are in a stale mate and will need assistance getting out. I want him to ship first because he has lied his way through the entire process. He wants me to ship first because...

well I don't really know why he wants we to ship first. I hae 3 times the feedback and have not lied the entire time.

Here are our latest correspondeces:

autostalker wrote:
Well i'm not sure if you know this or not but last editions crossbowmen have not been changed, there aren't any newer ones, atelast that i could find, So its fine if you just wanna ship everything back and we'll just trade back, but mostly what i sent you that was broken or painted heavily on was just random things like free company and halberdier men that weren't suppose to be there and i didnt really want. Luthor Huss is pretty much the only other model I can think of. Hey it's fine if you dont want any of it i'll take it back, I think I might try out the all calv army. If not choose what you want to trade for and lets finish this.

Here's the crossbow men. I am not sure where you get your misinformation but here are the new xbowmen.
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/stor ... GameNav=13

Luthor Huss should have been described as painted.

The Pistoleers were plastic conversion. Not the metal sixth.

The Pegasus captains that you described as being bret pegasus knights with Empire Captains were bret pegasus knights with bret knights glued on.

The book that was described as current was sixth edition. I am sure you knew that one.

The cannons had paint on them.

This is just what I quickly noticed at work. I didn't even bother to bring them home because they arent what I was told they were. So I haven't even been through all the bitz and stuff to make sure all the models are there.

I hope you enjoy the all mounted army. I think it is a great idea and would work very well. I was really looking forward to playing it and I am sad that I won't get to play as soon as I hoped.

I would like my stuff mailed back Monday. I will not send first because I have no faith that what you tell me is truth. As you can see there was alot of misleading and non disclosure in your descriptions.

I will mail your stuff as soon as I see that my stuff has been safely returned and is in the condition I sent it to you in.

I'm quite competent in my shipping, and as for description the onlything i ever mistakenly got wrong was the book and crossbowmen, as for the pegasus knights theres bitz to make captains, and everything else I would have described in full detail if you would have asked. I will ship back when I recieve notice that my package has been sent.

He already stated that verything was assembled or being. That means that there are't painting issues.

BTW I have included pictures of the models I sent him here. There are two Scraplaunchers I only sent one as per our deal.

insidius · Post by **insidius** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:50 am

....I am a moderator. I'm not too certain what you want me to do; I can't make him ship first. Banning/suspending him won't get your things back.

As for why he won't ship back to you first, I have no idea either. He needs to get in here and defend himself, though.

I will contact him.

autostalker · Post by **autostalker** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:55 pm

I have no problem with shipping back to you, just we'll both ship at the same time just like in the original deal.

kbolster12345 · Post by **kbolster12345** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Fine.

Send me delivery confirmation and I will get your stuff out. That was the way we did it our original deal.

A quick inventory:

Various Parts of both Hell Blasters missing. Many of the griffon hammers are missing. At least one set of barrels is missing.

at least 3 crossbowmen were missing.

Balthasar was missing his right hand. Actually there was plenty of stuff missing one arm or another.

The Elector Count on Pegasus was a Bret Character on Pegasus.

Lutho Huss was missing altogether.

There were extra models included. Many were militia but were painted in the same thick paint as the knights.

Gotrek and Felix wre also painted in that "thick plastic paint".

insidius · Post by **insidius** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:39 pm

This thread will be locked until otherwise needed. If either one of you need to update this post with the final resolution, please contact me and I will unlock the thread.