Bartertown "Bumping" Policy

[3eland]

Good day Bartertown,

I'd like to start this conversation off by saying that this topic doesn't mean anything will change - but it's a great start to do so.

Bartertown has a No Bumping policy.

What does this mean and why do we have it?

Rule #13: Ad Posting & "Post Bumping"
Please note that Bartertown users are limited to one topic/ad per trade forum per seven calendar days. Also, they may not "bump" their own topic/ad - ever.
For those of you who don't understand this: Look at a calendar. If I post an ad on 3 July at 1:00 p.m. in the 40k forum I may not repost an ad to that forum until 10 July at 1:01 p.m.. That is seven calendar days. It's a legal term.

Example:
Let's say I have some LOTR Riders of Rohan I want to get rid of and other miscellaneous stuff from WHFB and 40K. I can post an ad with those items together in the LOTR, WHFB and 40K forums. Seven calendar days later, I can post another ad with the same items OR I can edit the ad at any time.
What I can't do is relist the items every day in each forum.

Helpful Hint: The idea here is to prevent excessive promotion of one's trade/sale items or discussion topics. Users are prohibited via software from making more than one new topic per seven days (4 days for Bartertown Plus members), but there are other ways to self-promote. It's awkward wording, but "post bumping" is a term understood by the greatest number of people.

A Trade Ad should only be placed in the most appropriate forum for the item(s) it contains. If you only have bits or terrain, for example, your ad should only go in the forum for what you have. If you have both, then both forums are the "most appropriate."
-If you only have and/or want 40K models, then your ad should only go in the 40K forum
-If you only have and/or want bits, regardless of the game system, then your ad should only go in the Bits forum
-If you only have and/or want terrain, regardless of the game system, then your ad should only go in the Terrain forum (etc.)

If you've got items that fit into multiple categories, you may cross-post given the stricture above.

You may update your ORIGINAL POST (OP), and you may then immediately leave a reply in the thread stating PRECISELY WHAT was updated. If you fail to update the OP, or fail to state what you updated in the reply; then your thread will be locked for Bumping and you will be given a warning.

A couple guidelines:
If someone replies to your ad, and you reply to them in the ad, you're PROBABLY bumping your post. Basically, you can ONLY respond to comments in your ad if you're offering REQUESTED elaboration about your items.
If they ask specific questions about the edition, condition, quantity of your models, and you reply, that's fine. You're answering questions specific to the items you're offering. As a general rule, if you're replying to your own ad, you should just assume you're bumping your post. that way, you don't get too disappointed if it gets locked. While "Post Bumping" isn't the worst thing you could do here, it is one of the rules we're especially vigilant about.

If they make an offer in the ad, and you decline or offer a counter proposal in the ad, that's Post Bumping. You should have PMed them.
If they say in the ad that they PMed you, and you reply that you responded, that's Post Bumping. You should have ONLY PMed them.
If you post a broken link, and someone replies in the ad that it's broken, then you respond to let them know it's fixed, that's Post Bumping. You should have PMed them.
If someone posts in the ad asking if the models are 28mm or 15mm and you respond - Not post Bumping.

Bumping is when you add a comment to your ad that doesn't directly reflect a request for elaboration on your posted goods. Replies to someone that comments about the paint job is bumping. Replying to someone about PMing you is bumping. Commenting the word "bump"... is bumping.

Bartertown has a feature called New Posts. This displays all the new posts since you last logged in over a certain time period. Some members use this function. I use it when moderating from mobile especially, as I can quickly see the new posts and I don't have to go through every forum.

NewPosts.png

Back in the day it would be pages long - I'm talking hundreds of posts on high peak times. And every time a comment is made on an ad, it bumps the post to the top of this New Posts feed. This gave an unfair advantage to the people who bumped/commented on their own posts, as many members used this feature for tracking down fresh/new trades and so ads that didn't get much activity would eventually be buried on back pages, even if they were posted after the bumped ads. This was why the No Bumping rule was implemented (there were tertiary reason as well but that's another story).

When a post is Bumped, it's usually locked by staff. This prevents anyone else from bumping the post. Normally the member also gets a warning on their file and consistent bumping leads to administration discipline.

With the introduction of Facebook Groups, Reddit and whatever else out there, we obviously don't get the same traffic as we once did. My New Posts feed, as you can see, is 7 ads long. Sometimes it's more, but very rarely is it more than a page long.

Therefore, I would like to open up the discussion to the community on whether you, the community, thinks its a rule that can be removed. Or, if you think it should stay, please let us know too!

I will also leave an open mic to any other feedback related to the rules of Bartertown as well while we are at it - keep it civil.

Thanks,

Ryan

[LeperColony]

I am in favor of a policy that more closely aligns with preventing empty posts that serve no purpose other than to refresh a listing. Genuine, information added communication between an OP and an interested user should not, in my opinion, be considered a "bump."

I'd also be all for a more flexible approach to administration generally, one that asked "does the potentially infringing conduct facilitate efforts to trade in good faith" as opposed to whether it violates the strict letter of a rules provision.

[YoungWolf777]

I am not in favor of changing the current policy. In my opinion, trade threads are there to post an ad for goods wanted or available period. I have no desire to see them turn into discussion threads, nor do I ever carry on a discussion in my own posts, even if someone posts a response. That conversation should be held privately via PMs. That is what they are for. They are much more permanent than posts due to the self-cleaning setup of the trade sections. If there's an issue with a trade, you can't go back to a trade post for documentation as it will be gone.

Like 3eland, I use "New Posts" feature multiple times a day and nothing irritates me more than seeing "how much" or "are these still available" or "can you send pics please" type posts in threads, especially trade posts that are more than a week old. I give leeway for "updated original post" posts, even though I feel that's borderline bumping to get your post noticed again. Responding to a post in a trade thread

TL;DR: trade sections are strictly there for trade notices, not conversations. The conversation sections are there for... conversations. Pretty straightforward and easy to follow.

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I do find this all pretty amusing TBH. It's always someone who gets called out for a rules violation that complains the loudest against the rules. Rules they agreed to follow when they joined. Have there been rule changes over the years? Certainly. They came about by reasonable discussion among the members of the forum and the admins. I have yet to see a rules change come about by one person taking multiple "pedantic" potshots at volunteer admins who are doing their jobs and enforcing the community rules. Again, rules that everyone agreed to when they joined, whether they read them thoroughly or not. Will that change in this case? I guess we will wait and see what the BT community decides.