Bad Trader: Chris Griffin

[Phil D]

Hey Bartertown,

I hoped this wouldn't happen again, but it has. This is the second time I've been taken (and I thought I was being very careful). Here is all the correspondence related to the trade (earliest at the bottom, working its way to the top). The bottom line is I sent my stuff out, he hasn't been in contact since the 24th of Feb at all (attempted PMs and e-mail). The last 2 PMs are still in my outbox, he hasn't read them. I do have the USPS tracking number which indicates it was delivered (3 Warwalkers).

Any tips on how to proceed from here would be appreciated. I will file mail fraud at USPS, leave negative feedback, and want to contact the local PD in his area. Any tips on what to say to the PD?

Thanks
Phil

[Edit] Just checked the Bad Traders from old bartertown, turns out Chris Griffin was listed there (darn, I didn't look hard enough), apparently he is back on the boards as Orcwarlord, and living in FL. Still, any info or help is appreciated.


++++++++++++++++ (PM - still in Outbox)
From: Phil D ( 78 )
To: OrcWarlord
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:50 pm
Subject: Last chance before I file Mail Fraud charges
Hey Chris, Not to be a pain, but you received my package (3 Warwalkers) on the 24th of Feb (now 12 days ago), and you haven't responded to two PMs (on the 26th, 28th), and one e-mail (March 1), nor have you sent the Dread that we agreed to. If you don't PM me or contact me in some way before Sunday, I will file Mail Fraud charges with the USPS (a Felony), and will call your local police department and file charges as well. All of this is clearly laid out on Bartertown, and your unwillingness (to date) to work this out leaves me little recourse. I will also leave negative feedback on bartertown. I am still willing to work out a resolution to this without including the authorities, but it would have to happen within the next week. I look forward to hearing from you. Phil


++++++++++++++ (attempt at e-mail contact)
From : "wordbrer@juno.com" <wordbrer@juno.com>
To : psycofrk@yahoo.com
Subject : bartertown - trade completion

Date : Wed, Mar 01, 2006 07:38 PM

Move message to...InboxJunk MailTrash [ Printable Version ]
Hey Chris,
I tried to pm you on bartertown a couple of times, but I don't think they went through. Have you been able to send the dread yet? You pm'd me a couple of days ago saying you would be sending it the next day. I'd like to complete this trade, or have you return the warwalkers.

Let me know the status soon. Thanks

Phil

+++++++++++ (PM - still in Outbox)

From: Phil D ( 78 )
To: OrcWarlord
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:02 am
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown
Hey, Any progress on mailing out the dread? You pm'd on the 24th saying that you were going to send it out next day. Did you send yet? I'd like to complete this trade soon, its been hanging for awhile. Let me know where we are. Thanks Phil ++++++++++++ Orcwarlord wrote: "I'm really sorry. I've been caught up with my roommate moving out. The dread will be sent next day air first thing tomorrow morning. Again, I'm really sorry."

+++++++++++(PM)

From: Phil D ( 78 )
To: OrcWarlord
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:04 am
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown
Hey, not to be a pain Did you have a chance to send the dread out yet? Thanks Phil

+++++++++++ (PM)
From: OrcWarlord ( 0 )
To: Phil D
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:27 am
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown
I'm really sorry. I've been caught up with my roommate moving out. The dread will be sent next day air first thing tomorrow morning. Again, I'm really sorry._________________"Purification by Inceneration." Motto of the Witch Hunters

+++++++++++(PM)
From: Phil D ( 78 )
To: OrcWarlord
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:44 pm
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown
Hey Chris, Wanted to see where we stand. Haven't heard from you in about a week, and the dread hasn't arrived yet. Please give me an update. Thanks Phil

+++++++++++++(PM)
From: Phil D ( 78 )
To: OrcWarlord
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:43 pm
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown - shipped
Hey Chris, I sent the warwalkers today. Priority mail, they should be there in about 2 days. let me know when they arrive. The tracking number is 03052710000211551106 Thanks Phil

+++++++++ (PM)
From: Phil D ( 78 )
To: OrcWarlord
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:36 pm
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown
Hey Chris, I'll be dropping the walkers in the mail tomorrow. Just wanted to see if you sent the dread (so I can keep an eye out). Thanks. Phil

++++++++++ (PM)
From: Phil D ( 78 )
To: OrcWarlord
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:21 am
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown
Cool. My address is: Phil DeMara 7249 Shalkop St Philadelphia, PA 19128 I'll pm you the tracking number when I ship them. Thanks. Phil

+++++++++++ (PM)
From: OrcWarlord ( 0 )
To: Phil D
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:14 am
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown
Ok. I can ship out tomorrow. Don't worry about the missing power plants. I'll just order the bit. Send me your address and I'll ship tomorrow. My address is Chris Griffin 3436 SW 42nd Ave. Apt. 18 Gainesville, Fl. 32608 Thanks._________________"Purification by Inceneration." Motto of the Witch Hunters

+++++++++++(PM)
From: Phil D ( 78 )
To: OrcWarlord
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:04 am
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown
Hey, I checked the warwalkers, they are all current edition. One has a way OOP driver, but like I said, I have a current driver extra. Two of the warwalkers are missing their power plants ($2 bit from GW). Anything I can throw in to make up for that? Let me know. Thanks Phil

+++++++++++(PM)
From: Phil D ( 78 )
To: OrcWarlord
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:52 am
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown
I'll have to double check the models, but I am pretty sure they are the current range, although one of them has a pilot from, I believe, 2nd edition. For that warwalker, I also have an extra pilot (current) that I was going to use as a replacement. I'll pm you tomorrow with more info. Thanks Phil

+++++++++++++ (PM)
From: OrcWarlord ( 0 )
To: Phil D
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:51 am
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown
It is the full MKIV Dread from Forgeworld. The model is armed with a Plasma Cannon and Dread CCW sword Arm. The model is entirely resin along with a scenic resin base. What edition are the war walkers?_________________"Purification by Inceneration." Motto of the Witch Hunters

+++++++++++++++(PM)
From: Phil D ( 78 )
To: OrcWarlord
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:19 am
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown
Just so I'm sure, this is the Forgeworld MkIV dread, is it the complete kit (arms, legs, etc. from forgeworld) or just the torso? Is there any damage or anything other than the basecoat? I'd be interested in trading all of the warwalkers for the MkIV, if the MkIV is in good shape. Let me know Thanks Phil

+++++++++++ (PM)
From: OrcWarlord ( 0 )
To: Phil D
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:31 pm
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown
The Mark IV has been base-caoted grey and inked with Chestnut ink. I was painting it for a Deathwing army. If still interested pm me back._________________"Purification by Inceneration." Motto of the Witch Hunters

+++++++++++++++++ (PM)
From: Phil D ( 78 )
To: OrcWarlord
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:07 pm
Subject: Re: trade at bartertown
Hey, The Warwalkers retail for $30 ea (I didn't believe it when I saw that). I'd be willing to take $15ea (total of $45 for all three, includes shipping). They do need a little work (mainly stripping). What condition is the Mark IV in? I'd be more interested in trading the warwalkers for the dread. Let me know if we can work something out. Thanks Phil

+++++++++ (PM)
From: OrcWarlord ( 0 )
To: Phil D
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:30 pm
Subject: trade at bartertown
Hello. I am interested in the 3 War Walkers. How much would you want for them? I also have a Mark IV Dread._________________"Purification by Inceneration." Motto of the Witch Hunters

[ChaosMarine]

It stinks that you might have gotten taken. If he truly did scam you I hope he gets whats coming to him.

Just a question, Why did you send first? From what I have seen your rating is much higher than his.

[Phil D]

I sent first because he sounded like a decent person, and he had been replying pretty quickly. Even with no feedback, I figured he was in the US, I could easily delivery confirm, and if he didn't hold up his end, I had some recourse, although I don't expect much to come of it. In the end its 3 warwalkers, but for me now its the principle of the thing.

[thx10050]

Jesus, I knew this would happen with this jackass. I'd been talking with the same guy earlier about a painting job he'd do for me, but got suspicious because he wouldn't talk to me on the phone and didn't respond to any of my e-mails after I asked him if we could discuss the project over the phone. He also contacted me later to inquire about buying my Vampire Counts models, but must have realized we'd already talked before and stopped replying to my PMs almost immediately.

I wanted to post a warning about my suspicions, but that's not allowed (isn't it legally slander or some such?), so I didn't say anything.

Sorry to hear you've been ripped off it seems by this *edit*. Makes me wish there was a way to post bad feelings about something in a legal way.

[Phil D]

Yeah, but its partly my fault for not checking the 'old bad trader' sticky before I had made the deal and sent. Now I have a new way of dealing on b-town: 1) check the bad trader forum, and old stickies thoroughly before sending anything; and 2) asking them to send first with a lower rating than mine.

Well, hopefully this helps someone else avoid him, and that's worth it in my book.

I think B-town is great, but some people really make it hard to keep the faith...

[Phil D]

I filed a Mail Fraud complaint tonight (3/15/06). I'll follow up with the Gainesville PD shortly.

Anyone know what to say to the PD? How are these types of complaints typically handled?

Thanks
Phil

[Phil D]

I heard from the Gainesville Police Dept, and they're willing to take all the information and look into it.

They asked that I forward any knowledge of other complaints against this individual. I have been contacted by one bartertowner who has been taken as well, so if there is anyone else out there, please let me know.

Thanks

[Anglacon]

If all that fails, I have friends in Gainsville who wil be happy to pay him a visit.

[OrcWarlord]

Ok. I am trying to make this right. I messed up with the trade and now I am going to fix it. About the old bad trader report, I have never lived in Williston, Fl. but I do know some people that do and they aren't on my good friend list. I am trying to get in touch with the person that was ripped off in that deal so I can try and help him out. But seriously, do we have to revert to calling people Jackass and saying things about sending friends over to pay him a visit. Come on, I know I messed up and now it is being fixed. The package was sent today. As for my trading on bartertown........I think I'll stick to getting stuff straight from GW. I wish all of you the best in your future trades.

[Phil D]

I have to agree that there is no need to threaten people over this kind of stuff. While I did post the bad trader report and all of the follow-up information, he has been very apologetic and is working to make the trade right. If everything does get resolved, then I'll be withdrawing this bad trader report.

Sometimes stuff happens.

Phil

[Linrandir]

You're right. Sometimes stuff happens and people need to know about it.

However, I strongly urge you to not remove the bad trader report. "Making things right" is a common tactic used by scammers to keep people from reporting them. However, the more people that report the scammers, the more people can avoid them - as you said after discovering that Mr. Griffin is already on the Bad Trader list.

By the by, Mr. Griffin, Bartertown is better off for your not being here. Go pay the obscene retail prices GW charges and leave the good, honest traders here alone.

[starslayer]

Ok. I am trying to make this right. I messed up with the trade and now I am going to fix it. About the old bad trader report, I have never lived in Williston, Fl. but I do know some people that do and they aren't on my good friend list. I am trying to get in touch with the person that was ripped off in that deal so I can try and help him out. But seriously, do we have to revert to calling people Jackass and saying things about sending friends over to pay him a visit. Come on, I know I messed up and now it is being fixed. The package was sent today. As for my trading on bartertown........I think I'll stick to getting stuff straight from GW. I wish all of you the best in your future trades.

Goodbye and good riddance!
When did you decide to send the package?
Gee, let me guess.... after the Police contacted you?
No excuse man, your first trade and you blew it, Bartertown is better off without people like you.
You got an amazing deal anyway,3 War walkers for Dread.

Add another name to the bad trader list.....

[jagavahn]

I had intended to post a bad trade report of my own dealings with Mr. Griffin, but do to a glitch of some sort all of my email conversations have dissapeared(has this happened to any other g mail users?), so all I have as proof is a receipt for a certified letter I sent to Chris.

I had placed a sample painting order with Chris in early January. He kept in great communication before the minis arrived and after he had them in hand communication stopped.

After ignoring half a dozen emails, he finally responds after receiving a certified letter and a threat of me physically going to Gainsville to file a police report and filing a small claims case.

Today, he sent an email stating he returned my minis and a tracking #.


It is true that things happen. I am very understanding about that. I am also a very laid back with missing deadlines(I can provide contact info of other painters I have used) as long as reasonable communication is kept.

Mr. Griffin, I find it hard to believe that you are not the same Chris Griffin from Williston. If you weren't a: You probably would make no attempt to correct his actions and b: shouldn't have conducted yourself in a manner that would warrent bad trader reports.

If this was truly a case of life getting in the way, it probably wouldn't have taken the threat of legal action. Now I am out of the money I spent on shipping, the postage for a certified letter and I will probably never use a start up painter again.

And to all you scammers out there--it's probably not a good idea to scam someone who is within reasonable driving distance from you.

[starslayer]

LOL!
Thats a good idea. Don't rip-off anyone who lives too close to you.
They might take a drive and "correct" that bad trade.

[OrcWarlord]

Well, to tell you the truth I totally agree with everyone here. If I were you I would not remove the post either. Sometimes things do happen. The police have not contacted me yet. I truly hope they don't because I really don't want to be charged with mail fraud. I would leave the post up to show people what can happen and maybe it will get some potential bad traders to stop what they are doing. I am very sorry to everyone for the inconvenience and that's all I can really say. People will look at things the way they want to look at them and no one can change that. To Mr. Vega and Mr. Demara I send my deepest apologies. Good luck to everyone with their future trades.