BTR: Tomb King1

[PhillyT]

I was attempting to trade with Tomb King1. When the trade went bad, I issued an appropriate negative feedback and he made up one in return.

The trade was for 8 pewter flamers exchanged for 10 kasrkins, consisting of 7 troopers, 1 sergent, 1 plasma rifle trooper, and 1 grenade trooper.

What I received was 7 complete kasrkin, 2 without back packs, and 1 4th edition pewter Cadian Vox Caster trooper.

He received 8 pewter flamers.

When asked to make good on the trade by sending two back packs or paying for them, he refused and accused me of trying to get free back packs. Even with the back packs aside, he didn't even send the 10th model. The trade was not satisfied and attempts to remedy the situation have been refused.

I want the two back packs he has plus another kasrkin to replace the vox caster model he sent in its place.

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Sent: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:26 pm
by ‪PhillyT
What IG and Necrons do you have?

I have 8 pewter flamers, bare metal. 6th - 7th edition.

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Sent: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:13 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
I have a ton of IG and Necrons to list them all would be a bit time consuming... anything particular your interested in?

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Sent: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:41 pm
by ‪PhillyT
Necrons

Warriors – assembled or primed is fine, but I prefer to have the rods loose
Immortals – assembled or primed is fine
Praetorians – assembled or primed is fine
Lychguard – assembled or primed is fine
Wraiths – previous pewter versions only, assembled or primed is fine
Tomb Blades – assembled or primed is fine
Any vehicle – must be unpainted

Imperial Guard

Pretty much open to anything, specifically looking for infantry models and command squads, but will take vehicles.
Cadians only though. Unpainted as well.

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Sent: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:50 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
I have tons of cadian infantry just name what you want and make an offer...
I have 15 unassaembled praetorians/lychguard
Gotta ask why the old wraiths only?

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Sent: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:07 pm
by ‪PhillyT
I am looking for a command squad, plasma rifles, and as many cadian infantry as I can get. Would love a kasarkin squad if I can find one. Not really hunting for much in terms heavy weapons or anything. These aren't for a complete army, they are really just for fluffy purposes on my Necrons as allies. What do you have for models along those lines? I have cash too to buff the purchase up a little.

As for the old wraiths, I started my Necrons in 2002. I have 5000 painted points and another 2500 unpainted. I have 18 painted 4th edition Wraiths and just can't be bothered to use the new models, though they look great!

I have quite a lot of demons, anything else you are interested in?

2 Keepers of Secrets – both heads, pewter
10 Blood letters – assembled, unprimed
30 daemonettes – 20 primed, 10 unprimed
28 horrors – unprimed, assembled
1 Changling – pewter, assembled
1 Masque – pewter, missing mask arm, replaced with damonette claw
8 flamers – pewter, assembled
5 fiends of slaanesh – pewter, some primed and assembled

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Sent: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:12 am
by ‪Tomb King1
Only really interested in the 8 flamers. I have a full kaskrin squad if you are interested in that. They also have a grenade launcher and a plasma gunner.. Let me know if you would trade
10 kaskrin pewter w/ sgt, plasma gunner, and grenade launcher

for your 8 pewter flamers

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Sent: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:21 am
by ‪PhillyT
Are they the current kasarkins? The ones listed as Chadians on the gw site? If so then yeah, sounds like a deal.

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Sent: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:26 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
It is indeed the current models. I have over 30 succesful transactions including trades on here and on dakkadakka. So with respect I ask that you send first if possible.

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Sent: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:28 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
My address is
Brett Perkins
ADDRESS REMOVED

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Sent: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:47 am
by ‪PhillyT
I would prefer we both just mail these out simultaneously. Be tween here and the website I run, warhammer empire.com, I have a couple hundred trades.

But I won't break the deal over the issue, you have enough good references. I would just like to get to work on the models.

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Sent: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:04 am
by ‪Tomb King1
Well let me know a tracking number when you send urs and I will try and get mine out that same day. Though I just had surgery for appendix. So health dependent how quick I get to post office.

Brett

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Sent: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:45 pm
by ‪Tomb King1

Are you ready to send these all out tomorrow? Let me know?

Brett

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Sent: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:56 pm
by ‪PhillyT
Packaged on my side board! Meant to mail yesterday but didn't get out of the house in time for the 12 oclock close.

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Sent: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:15 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
I got mine packaged as well just waiting for the tracking number from you to send mine.

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Sent: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:44 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
I have my wife running the package to the post office now. I will have the tracking number within an hour for you.

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Sent: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:50 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
One of these is yours sorry the wife sent out both of my packages and failed to keep them separated.

0312 2860 0001 0768 7845

0312 2860 0001 0768 7852

thanks again, Brett Perkins

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:17 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
You have received your package is everything satisfactory? If so can we leave positive references?

Brett

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:49 pm
by ‪PhillyT
I just got the package. It is missing two backpacks. Do you still have them?

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:55 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
My apologies I thought they all had back packs. Oh some didnt come with back packs. Sorry about that. No I have no spare back packs.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:04 pm
by ‪PhillyT
Okay, that is a small problem. The trade was already slightly in your favor for non paint, unprimed, and complete models. You didn't list that some of the models were primed and two painted, nor did you mention that two were missing their back packs. Normally it wouldn't be a big deal, but Kasarkin back packs aren't easy to get. I can't just kit bash them either, since they are most interesting for their uniformity.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:46 pm
by ‪PhillyT
Looking at bit services, $6 would cover the cost of getting the two new backpacks.

Can you paypal that? If so I would be fine giving a positive feedback.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:39 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
I will have to decline that offer. If you would like you can send them back and I will send you 2 more. It was unintentional and I gave you the models that were in the best shape. $6 can nearly buy you 2 on ebay. ‪http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid= ... &_from=R40

Plus the deal was about even considering mine are current edition models and yours are from the 90's.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:46 pm
by ‪PhillyT
Those models are from 2003. They were replaced this summer.

How would replacing those two models help? Wouldnt the other two lack back packs?

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:49 pm
by ‪Tomb King1

I have two others with backpacks.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:51 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
Actually after some consideration. If you want just send them all back and I will send your flamers back. If its this big of a deal Ide rather not conduct a trade with you.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:00 pm
by ‪PhillyT
So basically you chose to send two incomplete models when you do have two complete models?

I am not going to pay shipping costs to send these models back to you. If you will pay the shipping I am more than happy to send them back.

Tombking, you are the one who didn't fulfill your end of the bargain in this. If you had the additional back packs, you should have broken them off and shipped them along with the other models.

So here are your options as far as I can see:

1. Pay $6 over paypal to cover me having to buy new packs
2. Pay my total shipping cost, $12 (the initial shipment to you and the shipment now to send these back)
3. Ship me the two back packs you have and get a good reference.
4. Take a bad reference from me, and at only 20 reps, you will have a difficult time doing much trading.

The onus is on you for this one. Make good on what you promised. I took a risk trading simultaneously with you. I was wrong to trust you initially, but hopefully you will make good.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:07 pm
by ‪Tomb King1

I will take the negative and issue one in return. The original deal was for 8 oop flamers for 10 current edition kaskrin. I have met my end of the agreement you now have 10 kaskrin and I now have 8 oop flamers even if they are in pieces. I consider the deal fulfilled. Positive or negative is on you but expect the same in return. Never traded with such an uncompromising person in my life. Congrats on attaining that.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:12 pm
by ‪Tomb King1

BTW you should know that brand new kaskrin average out to $4.12 a piece.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:12 pm
by ‪PhillyT
You traded eight complete models and two incomplete. Send the two back packs and we are good. In a grievance the fact that you failed to fulfill your end will quickly come out and remove your negative feedback. I am fine going that route since you are in the wrong.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:19 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
Lets get technical. Did anywhere in my negotiations with you mention that all the models had their backpacks? It was not something that was disclosed in the trade. You failed to ask. You received 10 kaskrin did you not? That is what was promised and that is what I sent. This deal is finished. Both sides have met their requirement.

Have a good day sir.

Brett

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:22 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
To caveat my last message. I am relatively sure I sent all 10 with back packs. I kept the ones that didn't have backpacks. So you could just be trying to get 2 free back packs for all I know. Either way the deal is finished.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:23 pm
by ‪PhillyT
They assumption is complete models. That last message shows you were aware that it was incomplete. When we go to a grievance all of the messages are sent in. You should have said two were incomplete. That isn't my job to ask. You should have told me.

If you mail the back packs and complete the agreed trade we are good.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:24 pm
by ‪PhillyT
You knew. The deal is incomplete, and I'll let the mods know. Save those messages.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:29 pm
by ‪Tomb King1

Then save away I will not be black mailed which essentially what your trying to do.. OVER 6 dollars. I am certain that the models were complete when I shipped them I checked them twice. So there are one of two possibilities.

1. They somehow where lost during shipping
2. Your lying

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:31 pm
by ‪PhillyT
You weren't sure a few posts ago. You knew full well you didn't send complete models.

If you do not want to make them complete by sending packs fine. I am sending the message already.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:35 pm
by ‪PhillyT
And you should really get your story straight. This started out that you didn't know you hadn't sent them and that you forgot that some were missing. Then you said I never asked if they were complete. Then you claimed that I was hustling you for two free back packs (absurd given my trading history), and now the packs must have been lost in transit?

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:47 pm
by ‪PhillyT
By the way, not only did you not send two back packs, one of the models you sent isn't even a Kasrkin! You sent me a pewter cadian with a comm on his back. Maybe you didn't know what the model was, but the gun and helmet are wrong and they don't even produce a Kasrkin with a vox.

What exactly are you trying to pull here? If you weren't going to take the time to get the models right, why the hell did you bother with the trade in the first place?

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:20 pm
by ‪PhillyT
Since you are no longer communicating, I am going to issue negative feedback and send a grievance to the moderation staff.

To clarify, my issues are as follows:

The trade was for 8 pewter flamers exchanged for 10 kasrkins, consisting of 7 troopers, 1 sergent, 1 plasma rifle trooper, and 1 grenade trooper.

What I received was 7 complete kasrkin, 2 without back packs, and 1 4th edition pewter Cadian Vox Caster trooper.

You received 8 pewter flamers.

When asked to make good on the trade by sending two back packs or paying for them, you refused and accused me of trying to get free back packs off you. Even with the back packs aside, you didn't even send the 10th model. The trade was not satisfied and attempts to remedy the situation have been refused.

This isn't blackmail, this isn't a hustle. If you aren't willing to trade in good faith so be it, but it is unfortunate.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:27 pm
by ‪Tomb King1

Stand by... I am waiting for a mods reply. Per the rules give a few days.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:29 pm
by ‪PhillyT
Certainly will, given the fact that you didn't even bother to send 10 Kasrkin. You subbed in a regular pewter Cadian for whatever reason. General incompetence perhaps?

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:12 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
The following comments were made on your bad reference from Tomb King1:
Claimed that I didn\'t send 2 backpacks with the models I sent him and then proceeded to give me ultimatums and refused to provide proof or even compromise at all for a discrepancy I don\'t believe I committed. Not to mention the models he shipped are in pieces something that was not disclosed. The guy is rude, impatient, uncompromising, and attempted to black mail me. Seriously avoid trading with him at all cost.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:17 pm
by ‪PhillyT
So now you fabricate lies in a bad reference? The ultimatums you point out ate legitimate options to rectify the issue. And the models were in peeves because they were brand new. Plus you haven't even explained the missing kasarkins replaced with a standard cadian box caster. I am baffled as to how you can't see what you did here was wrong. Fortunately it is quite clear what has happened.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:25 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
‪https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&saf ... D5ZEvAL9V8
‪https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s ... MWvbLszCzw

You offered nothing but your action that is final! Your attitude lead to a bad transaction.

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:31 pm
by ‪PhillyT
You didn't even complete your claim that you sent 10 kasarkins. You sent nine and a cadian. When I asked for Back packs you said no then claimed the trade complete. Where was I supposed to go?

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Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:12 pm
by ‪PhillyT
And still no explanation on the cadian? Or are you going to claim I faked it too?

[PhillyT]

His bad reference isn't even accurate. In my initial PM to him with my demons listed, it clearly states that the Flamers are pewter, some assembled.

[jul]

Several things are borderline here:
1/ PhilyT: you cannot say:" do this and you get a good reference" or "if you don't do that, i'll give a bad one"

2/secondly on the trade itself:
your deals was quite clear: 10 Kasrkins for 8 flamers
you got 9 kasrkins and 1 Cadian, 2 incomplete kasrkins.

from there:
Tombking1 deserved his Bad Reference. His retaliation is not justified IMHO and seems to me against our rules as PhillyT completed his part of the bargain.

Tombking1: it seems that you did not send what you were supposed to send, at least you sent a cadian instead a kasrkin, regardless of the back pack issues.
you are welcome to explain yourself here and find a solution that would be accepted by both parties, but you have to complete your part of the bargain.

J

[PhillyT]

Sorry about that. I was trying to say that I would still give a good reference if he made good on the trade, not blackmail him.

[Tomb King1]

Several things are borderline here:
1/ PhilyT: you cannot say:" do this and you get a good reference" or "if you don't do that, i'll give a bad one"

2/secondly on the trade itself:
your deals was quite clear: 10 Kasrkins for 8 flamers
you got 9 kasrkins and 1 Cadian, 2 incomplete kasrkins.

from there:
Tombking1 deserved his Bad Reference. His retaliation is not justified IMHO and seems to me against our rules as PhillyT completed his part of the bargain.

Tombking1: it seems that you did not send what you were supposed to send, at least you sent a cadian instead a kasrkin, regardless of the back pack issues.
you are welcome to explain yourself here and find a solution that would be accepted by both parties, but you have to complete your part of the bargain.

J

The metal cadian was an accident and not even known to me(never had metal cadians before). If he sends it back I will replace the model with another kaskrin that I have.

[PhillyT]

I would prefer nine complete models to 8 and two incomplete. I would also rather not have to pay anymore than I already have.

I would rather just have the back packs that are owed and be done with it.

[Tomb King1]

I would prefer nine complete models to 8 and two incomplete. I would also rather not have to pay anymore than I already have.

I would rather just have the back packs that are owed and be done with it.

Can you provide pictures of the models showing which ones are missing packs please?

[PhillyT]

I can, though the packs are universal.

[jul]

actually not, backpacks are not universal: the special weapons ones are differents than the normal trooper ones.

Tomb King 1 you have an offer there, just sent the backpacks and case is closed.

[PhillyT]

They look the same to me, but I have never seen a plasma or grenade launcher Kasrkin backpack. From the front they look the same:



All of the back packs I have are identical. I assumed that all of the packs are the same.

And I would be fine with the back packs since mailing the model back would be more money that I didn't need tied into this, nor do I want incomplete kasrkin's without backbacks.

[jul]

if you have access to GW catalogues from 2004-2oo5 or the 2006 edition, all 5 different backpacks are pictured

J

[PhillyT]

Ah okay. Regardless, any kasrkin back pack will work for me. As long as they are similar from a slight distance they will be complete enough for me.

[MagickalMemories]

Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:07 pm
by ‪Tomb King1

I will take the negative and issue one in return. The original deal was for 8 oop flamers for 10 current edition kaskrin. I have met my end of the agreement you now have 10 kaskrin and I now have 8 oop flamers even if they are in pieces. I consider the deal fulfilled. Positive or negative is on you but expect the same in return. Never traded with such an uncompromising person in my life. Congrats on attaining that.

This is a problem. You are clearly only leaving the negative because you received one. The fact that he had a problem with your (alleged) poor trade habits is not an acceptable reason to leave him a negative reference. Otherwise, everyone who screwed up a trade could hit their trade partner with a negative if they dared address any problems. This is ITL intimidation.
The fact that his models were unassembled is not something I see as being a valid complaint. It's not because unassembled vs assembled doesn't matter (he listed them as assembled, so it does). Why it rings false to ME is that you didn't bother to mention it until after he complained and refused to go away quietly after you shrugged him off.

Sent: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:19 pm
by ‪Tomb King1
Lets get technical. Did anywhere in my negotiations with you mention that all the models had their backpacks? It was not something that was disclosed in the trade. You failed to ask. You received 10 kaskrin did you not? That is what was promised and that is what I sent. This deal is finished. Both sides have met their requirement.

Have a good day sir.

As he pointed out, it's not his job to try to think of every way you might omit information and ask the appropriate question, so that you cannot screw him over. If we're getting technical, let's read the rules and abide by them. They're pretty clear on the BTown standard.
You did not send what you were promised. You shorted him 2 backpacks and a Kasrkin.

Bartertown's position on this is that the person who screws up should take responsibility for the costs. You left out 2 backpacks and a model. You should send those to him in the promised condition or eat the replacement cost. If you want the Cadian model back, you should take responsibility for that cost, as well.

Eric

[PhillyT]

Regardles of whether Tomb King1 sends the items, I would like to have my negative feedback removed.

[jul]

Contact one of the Admin, MagickalMemories knows the case.
send him a PM about that with explanations as why

J