What do people expect when they come here?

[osloco]

Ha. Reminds me of the joke: A Giraffe walks into a bar and says the high balls are on me. Part of bartering is the back and forth. I am pretty practical and usually just offer what I want to spend (50% retail on painted, higher on NIB).

I think that lowballing and ... high balling(? Why does it feel dirty, writing that? lol) are both wrong.
I think the low offer should be a low offer that is reasonably acceptable for the item in question ($5 is NOT a reasonable offer for a NIB Land raider), and the high amount should be a reasonable high amount (Retail price is a bit silly, but 15 to 20% off of retail is a reasonable starting point for new items).

Just my $.02, mind you. : )

Eric

[insidius]

I think some people, no one in particular, just in general, tend to feel personally insulted by low offers. I think not having expectations at all would help alleviate that. A person isn't intentionally trying to insult you, they're just trying to get a deal. These are hard times for some folks. Hobbies are a luxury. This one in particular. An offer shouldn't hurt someone in my opinion.

[montaa]

This is an old post of mine, but appropriate for this post.

I will have everything you own. Preference given to Warhammer Fantasy Items.

Trade conditions:

1. I'll buy up to 1% of retail value, but I only trade in semi happy thoughts. But you must feel guilty for making me work that hard.
2. You will send first, no matter how many years of work you've put in here at Bartertown. This is not even open to discussion.
3. When you package your models to send to me, you'll need to praise me at all times.
4. The only acceptable packaging is teak with gold hardware. Please polish the gold just before it arrives at my house on the Elephant litter, otherwise I will leave a negative reference.
5. You must include a packing slip that alternately lists the items you sent me written in powdered Unicorn horn, followed by a line of high praise directed at my awesomeness. The lines about me may be written in standard ink as no earthly substance is truly super enough to glorify my awesomeness.
6. When the trade is concluded you will leave me double positive feedback. You will enjoy leaving it and the moderators will leave yet another positive for me because they are so honored that I trade at this site.
7. The highest possible feedback you may receive from me is neutral. This is not a reflection on you, simply a reflection on how amazing I am and how glad you are to simply be allowed to contact me.
8. I only ship on Tuesday afternoons.

</grrrrr>

[Phil D]

What I LEARNED to expect:

MY stuff isn't worth anything;
YOUR stuff is solid gold.

Most people don't know how to pack or even try to and ignore that it gets broken.

Yeah, this is my experience as well. Its been that way for awhile, which is why I peek in and out when something jumps out at me, or when I have something someone wants. Even then, I've walked away on a few. I often wonder where people shop to get the discounts they claim on new stuff. If you can get it new for that price, then buy it new!

@montaa, that is great!

[shakespear]

On the lowball thing, when you tell me to "make an offer" I know you are trying to get me to pay more than you would have normally accepted, so when I "lowball" I'm trying to pay less than I would have paid. We are both trying to get a good deal.

If you dont like the offer, I expect a counter offer not ending communication, thus we are bartering..

This isnt "guesswhatIwilltaketown.com"

[MagickalMemories]

Technically, that isn't bartering. That is haggling.
Bartering is simply an exchange.

I agree with your sentiment and overall assessment, though.


Eric

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

Technically, that isn't bartering. That is haggling.

But Haggletown doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

[MagickalMemories]

Very true. Very true.

LOL Actually, when I say (or think) that name, it makes me think of Fraggle Rock! LOL

I just make it a point to always address the fact that people often misinterpret haggling as bartering. You don't have to haggle to barter.

Eric

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

Very true. Very true.

LOL Actually, when I say (or think) that name, it makes me think of Fraggle Rock! LOL

I just make it a point to always address the fact that people often misinterpret haggling as bartering. You don't have to haggle to barter.

See, I'm not sure I agree with that.

With the exception of a retail model, where cash is being exchanged for goods with marked prices (in dollars), most exchanges here will require some sort of haggling.

In a trade, if I am not trading 1 for 1 2nd ed metal space marines, the relative value of each item in the exchange is not necessarily clear, and some back and forth will be required to zero in on the happy median between the two trading partners' perceived values.

How many potatoes is your goat worth? In the absence of a standard, haggling will be required to conduct that barter exchange.

Add in the complexities of who ships first, method of payment, mode of shipping, and again, some back and forth will be required.

[MagickalMemories]

Here's my point:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/haggle

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/barter

You're talking about what your opinion is re: what is (or, specifically can be[/]) included in bartering. I'm simply comparing definitions.
Even if haggling does happen in a barter, it doesn't -by definition or requirement- *have* to happen. They are entirely separate things.
Q) Did you barter?
A) Yes. He sent some Space Marines for my Tau.

Q) Did you haggle?
a) No. I liked his first offer, so I accepted it.

See what I mean?


Eric

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

Here's my point:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/haggle

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/barter

If you're going to slap me with a dictionary, I prefer this one:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/barter

You're talking about what your opinion is re: what is (or, specifically can be[/]) included in bartering.

I disagree (again). While I accept your limited definition that barter is the exchange of goods for goods, rather than for money, the very idea that there is anyone who can reasonably exclude the conversation side (haggling) from the exchange side (bartering) makes me despair for life as we know it.

I'm simply comparing definitions.
Even if haggling does happen in a barter, it doesn't -by definition or requirement- *have* to happen. They are entirely separate things.
Q) Did you barter?
A) Yes. He sent some Space Marines for my Tau.

Q) Did you haggle?
a) No. I liked his first offer, so I accepted it.

See what I mean?

I do take your point in this case, and there will certainly be many circumstances where the exchange of one regiment box for a different regiment box can proceed smoothly w/o haggling as we think of it.

More often, however, we end up in situations where what we have is close to what the other guy wants, and I think that traders on Bartertown that are unprepared to discuss how to reach an agreeable middle should move along. Far along.

[MagickalMemories]

I wasn't slapping you with definitions,,, more of a gentle tap.
LOL

Your linked definition works fine for me.

While I accept your limited definition that barter is the exchange of goods for goods, rather than for money, the very idea that there is anyone who can reasonably exclude the conversation side (haggling) from the exchange side (bartering) makes me despair for life as we know it.

Why? is it a "personal opinion/preference" thing, or...?

For clarity, I don't consider the discussion of a trade as haggling. Haggling is a sort of 't!t for tat' back & forth where each person changes his offer (or sticks to it) until a final agreement is made.
Bartering is simply the act of trading. The way I envision it, a trade goes something like this:
1) Invitation to/inquiry about a barter.
2) Haggling over the details; including value (dollar or item for item), terms of trade and terms of shipping
3) Conclusion of the barter.

Step two is often left out... if I say, "You have the lower rating, so I want you to ship first," and you agree, then that isn't really a haggle. It's an agreed upon facet/requirement of the barter. It would not be haggling unless you disagreed in some way & voiced your disagreement with an intent to get me to alter my requirement.

In fairness, however, I still consider a purchase to be a barter, as you're bartering CASH for ITEMS. I'm aware that this violates the dictionary definition. So, there you go. LOL

Eric

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

For clarity, I don't consider the discussion of a trade as haggling. Haggling is a sort of 't!t for tat' back & forth where each person changes his offer (or sticks to it) until a final agreement is made.
Bartering is simply the act of trading. The way I envision it, a trade goes something like this:
1) Invitation to/inquiry about a barter.
2) Haggling over the details; including value (dollar or item for item), terms of trade and terms of shipping
3) Conclusion of the barter.

Step two is often left out... if I say, "You have the lower rating, so I want you to ship first," and you agree, then that isn't really a haggle. It's an agreed upon facet/requirement of the barter. It would not be haggling unless you disagreed in some way & voiced your disagreement with an intent to get me to alter my requirement.

I guess this is my point:

Step 2 should be the EXPECTATION when trading here, not the EXCEPTION. That's not to say that step 2 should be acrimonious, or unpleasant, but if--

I post 10 of X for 12 of Y, and someone writes back with, I want your 10X, but I only have 8Y--would you consider 4Z?

--then that should be the anticipated norm. We're not stores (most of us). We're not customers (most of us). We're people trading our crap for other crap. I think that Bartertowners in general do not expect everything to go 100% exactly as they want it to out of the gate in a trade, and that some back and forth is normal and positive. I think that IS what is meant by barter; I do think it is component to the practice of bartering.

Stating a price and getting it is completely fine--I've paid asking--but I think inquiring if a different price/trade/etc is viable is completely fine too.

[shakespear]

My prefered dictionary:

[MagickalMemories]

<snip>

I guess this is my point:

Step 2 should be the EXPECTATION when trading here, not the EXCEPTION. That's not to say that step 2 should be acrimonious, or unpleasant, but if--

I post 10 of X for 12 of Y, and someone writes back with, I want your 10X, but I only have 8Y--would you consider 4Z?

--then that should be the anticipated norm. <snip>

Well, with that, I can agree whole heartedly. You're 100% right. Anyone who comes here to BARTER without the expectation of HAGGLING is misled.
Funny you should mention it being unpleasant, though... I can't tell you how many times I've seen BTR's, backouts or PM's asking for advice on a trade gone sour that, when they provide the email or PM string, one or both of the involved parties is overly blunt, rude or just downright nasty.
"You've got to be crazy. There's no way your ABC is worth as much as my XYZ. If you want to do this trade, you're going to have to change your expectations."
(Yes. I've seen something like that before.)

I'm just floored. I mean, WTF? Whatever happened to simple courtesy? When did common courtesy become uncommon?

... and it's not usually the "newbies" doing it.


Eric