Trading SMART... and not like a NOOB!!!

[Norseman]

Over the past few weeks I have had an influx of trade inquires go unanswered for a day or two then the OP respond to me... "Sorry I just finalized a trade, thanks for you interest." The reply in itself is awesome and I do appreciate you letting me know politely that the items are gone.

However....

Why did you not answer me yesterday when the items were still available. Yes you may have STARTED working with a person that contacted you first. But what makes his offer the BEST offer for YOU!!!

Just because he had the luck to offer you a quick deal. Why are you married to his offer? Heck you don't even know what I am willing to offer. I know I replied about 10 min after you posted so I don't think you could have traded it in that amount of time, and if you did, why did you trade it so fast and take the first offer.

If I am after something that I REALLY want. I WILL NOT let someone else have it. I know there are a lot of other traders like this on the site as well. There is stuff out there that does not come up all that often, and collectors really do not care what it costs if it completes a collection or is a MUST have, or even an investment piece.

Yeah it pisses me off when I have a deal ALMOST worked out and then someone jumps in and outbids me. But hey that's the chances you take when you are getting a deal. I hold no hard feelings. I was beat fair and square and to the winner the spoils. What I hate is when i don't get the chance to even offer.

Guess what... That means YOU as the guy with the models got LESS money or value in trade than you could have because you traded poorly. You traded like a noob and took the first offer, or what you thought was adequate for you models. How do you know that someone out there is not ready to pay you more?

Always let EVERYONE come to the table and get all the offers and THEN make you decision.

It is my #2 Pet Peeve about trading on this site. - (#1 is people that do not reply.)

Comments and other viewpoints are welcome.

[eman1_2]

I completely agree. Just had this happen to me the other day - I sent a PM 5 or 10 minutes after posting, and how does he know I won't over offer the other guy?

The other thing I dislike is the Noob who thinks I should pay first, before shipping goods, and cops an attitude on it when I decline his offer. I know I am not as highly ranked as some folks, but my number is high enough that I am completely justified asking a rating 2 person to ship first. His loss, as I refused to buy. I left a note saying 'when you respect my 150, I would be happy to deal'. I have been here a decent amount of time, and it is usually the people who have 2 or 3 good trades, and then have a huge list of stuff, and then scam $1000 worth of stuff from people.

edit - third thing, is please leave me a good reference. I left you one. I even reminded you to leave me one. If I don't deserve one, please let me know why.

[Forsaken Poptart]

I have to respectfully disagree- I'd rather have someone give me a yes or a no within two days (see the sig!) than have them wait a week while everyone brings their offers to the table; particularly if they do not communicate as such.
I also do not appreciate being part of a blind bidding war- negotiating a better trade is fine, to a degree, but if every time I open my PM's, another offer or 'opportunity to bid' from the same trader comes through, I'm going to sour on them and lose interest very quickly. I use a set standard (retail for retail) on my items, with a little room for adjustment depending on my desire for those items- i.e, I will give someone a better deal if they have something I'm really after, but not THAT much better.

Now, I think you and I come from different perspectives- my items (almost exclusively PP models now) almost never go OOP, and have a known and established value; I assume by your stance that you're more into the collectible side, where OOP and rare minis come up from time to time. However, I still believe that a lot of people will prefer settling on a sure thing quickly (as sure as anything can be on Bartertown), rather than get a slightly better offer at some unspecified time in the future.

Just how I see it!

[Norseman]

At Forsaken Poptart

I am not saying...Wait a week.

I am saying wait a day... Most of your responses will come in, in a day or two.

If you work out a retail for retail deal, that is fair, that is not what I am talking about, I am talking about this...
You are working on a retail for retail deal out, and some one else expresses interest, would you say... "Sorry I have a pending trade.", or would you say... "What are you offering?". That is the difference I am talking about.

Why not ask what the guy is offering. Why Shut him out? What if he is willing to give you a 25% bonus to Retail on your stuff. Is that not BETTER for you.

I am not talking about bidding wars either. Although that is the one problem with what I am suggesting. However, Is a bidding war bad for the guy with the goods?... No way!

I think you misunderstood EXACTLY what I am talking about

[JohnHwangBT]

If someone want's to trade fast, that's fine by me. I won't get every deal, and don't expect to.

If I set what I think to be a "fair" price, and it's accepted, then I'm done looking at other offers. If the deal falls through, at that point, I'll reopen things. That 2-day window is probably the seller finalizing the deal, and then giving notice to other interested parties.

[EVIL INC]

Early on, I did a few trades where I started working with someone to sell items and had offers after I started the deal. This is because it is a matter of honor and honesty. If I have something up for a week and after that week, someone sends me a message wanting to buy it, I have to assume that they are the only ones interested so I tell them I will sell it to them if we can agree on a deal and then start haggling. It is disrespectful to them to suddenly tell them halfway through the haggling process and promising to sell it to them to back out and sell it to a johnny come lately who offered a quarter more then my original asking price. Bear in mind, I slanted these statements to show my point and how I feel and understand it is not always so black and white as that. I am old fashioned and feel that once I start dealing with someone, they are THE one I deal with unless I make it clear beforehand that it is an "auction" and will sell to the highest bidder.
Please note, I am not the person Norseman is talking about. I am just putting in my 2 cents.
On bigger items I have sold here, where there was a considerable amount of money (for me at least), I DO make it clear that it is an "auction" process and that I will sell to the highest bidder. Having done that as well, I can say that it is a considerably more in depth process as you have to keep track of who offered what and let people know when they have been outbid. Even then, I can see where a dishonest people could inflate a price by making up fake bids. Not saying people do that, I am somewhat of a pessimist and would be leary of a newer member who does not have a reputation for that reason.
Edit: Forgive me, I have a hard time putting into words my feelings. I know norseman is not advocating this, but I feel that this is how many would take it... I would rather be known as someone who appears to be a noob for accepting less for an item but can be counted on to complete a trade once the dealing is started then a cutthroat person who will cut off a trade in mid-deal to accept more from someone else. If I want it to be an "auction, I will post that from the start setting a time limit and keep all involved informed. At the end, I will deal with the best offer and if a better one comes after, tough for them (and me) because I gave my word on the time limit and feel it would be dishonest to go back on my word.

[eman1_2]

I am not saying to break negotiations. But if you post an add, and three people PM you, maybe take a minute to read the PMs and see what is out there for offers. No one will mind if you post at 3PM, get 4 offers, and then don't repond to them until 8PM.

[Norseman]

Don't worry EVIL INC, no offense taken.

I am not proposing to people to be dicks about it either.

People pulling stunts like that can get a bad name, and generally can screw themselves out of deals. I have figured people have tried to do that with me once or twice. Basically I have dropped out of the bidding when it was more than I was willing to pay, they then come back and say that the previous deal didn't work out. I instantly thought that this is BS and turned down the deal, and they earned a place on my "Do not trade list."

All I am saying is that a person should be WILLING to hear all offers, and not hold themselves to the first guy to message them.

[Norseman]

Happened again today. Today it was the reverse. I person looking for and item that I have... Literally I messaged less than half an hour after he posted it. I messaged him with what I had. He messaged back that he had a deal almost worked out.

I was totally dumbfounded.

What the heck are you doing closing a deal 30 minutes after a post, especially for older models.

Guess what... Unless these models are extremely rare and hard to find. You proabably got ripped off!

What are you doing taking your first offer? Do you know how many guys out there that are looking to dump old minis for nothing. I know I personally dumped an older army for proabably 20% retail value a few weeks ago. The guy got a steal of a deal. The stuff just wasn't in demand and I wanted it gone.

Again wait a few hours, maybe a day, take a look at all the offers. Then strike the BEST deal for YOU.

I totally understand this guys time, may be more valuable that his cash. In that case I am totally off base, and there was a payback for him in there it may be in not spending time.

As for myself... I am cheap and do not mind spending a little time to save, or make a buck.

[Khador_Rage]

I try to deal with traders on a first come, first served basis. I know exactly how much I want in dollars, and in trade value for my items. If someone is willing to negotiate a trade under those conditions them I am willing to work with them. I prefer bigger trades, but I won't brush off a smaller trade too. I also rank my trades based on the value of the cash, or what the other trader has to trade.

Usually I will send a PM to all the interested parties that I am in negotiations and that I will contact them later. If someone PMs me and seems wishy-washy on their wants then I will go with someone else. I rarely have problems with having more than one interested party at a time. If I'm selling a big lot I will deal with the first person that pays my asking price, and seems reasonable to deal with.

If any trader is posting items without an asking price then they are looking for trouble. If you don't know what your stuff is worth then take the time to figure it out. Do some research on eBay, or online retailers. Never leave it up to the person buying to name their price. I've had plenty of people try to negotiate on the price I have listed. I give very generous discounts for cash purchases, but some people expect pennies on the dollar.

[astrosmash]

There are so many variables in play behind the scenes that it would be impossible to guess what an individual's motivations were after a post. For example, what if the post was for a specific item and the first response increased the scope of the deal? A larger trade could be much more enticing than the original, and enough to proceed down a different path immediately. They could be a noob, shrewd or some combination of the two which might make them... 'newd'.

[EVIL INC]

Methinks that is likely a train of conversation that could be VERY interesting upon who we are talking about. Of course, most of those people that are running through my head likely do not even know this site exists .It is also likely a train of discussion that could get us in trouble fast and the thread locked so best to avoid it.
You do have a point though, the first offer could have been so sweet it could not be refused or from a person the poster had already dealt with before and trusted through experience or any number of other things. I dont mind getting the "Deal is already done" message. I hate the ones that I send that are simply ignored.

[reegsk]

I do get and agree with Norse's original point in the majority of situations. I almost always will start negotiations with the first person to PM me, but I will definitely leave my ear to the ground while I do so. I suppose my approach is kind of a combination of the two ideals -- I will start negotiating with the earliest people, but respond to PMs within the next day or so with, "I'm working out a deal right now, but what are you offering?" If Person B offers a much better deal than Person A, I will usually give Person A (as the first person I started dealing with) a chance to sweeten the pot. If they don't want to change their offer, I just say No Thanks and move on. But if Person A does throw in more, I've already informed Person B that I'm negotiating something, so I go with A and tell B thanks but no thanks. I definitely don't play the two off of each other (if A made a better offer, I then tell B and try to get a better offer there, and so on).

I actually had a related thing happen to me a week ago. A person posted up that they were looking for an OOP item. I responded very quickly that I had said item, we worked out a price within an hour or so, and got the ol' "Here's my address, send me your PayPal and I'll send money." Well, I was at a 40k tourney that day, so I didn't have a chance to reply until that night. I send the e-mail address. . .and nothing. My assumption is that, in the time between his promise to pay and receipt of my e-mail, someone had PM'd him a better offer and he went with that. Now, if we were still negotiating, that would have been fine (of course, we had agreed to a deal, so it's slightly different). But what bothered me, other than him not honoring his word, was the fact that he didn't give me a chance to change my offer. He actually accepted my first offer, and didn't haggle at all. So if he wasn't willing to pay the price I offered (since he obviously got a lower price elsewhere), why agree to it at all?

That's something I see on Btown a lot. People don't haggle. They say, "How much for. . .", you give them a price, and they pass or take it. Isn't one of the biggest rules of negotiation to ask for more than you expect to get (or even want), so you can give a little ground but still get what you are willing to settle for?

Anyway, musings aside, I would agree -- you should really give at least a day to see all immediate offers. Even if you only deal within the U.S., there's still a three-hour time difference between east and west coast, meaning people might not see your offer for hours after you've posted it. Why go with the one guy that just happened to be on right about the same time that you posted? If that first person offers what you want (or more), sure, go with him. But even then, maybe some guy on the West Coast who doesn't get home until 9PM EST might be willing to offer you double.

[MagickalMemories]

That's something I see on Btown a lot. People don't haggle. They say, "How much for. . .", you give them a price, and they pass or take it. Isn't one of the biggest rules of negotiation to ask for more than you expect to get (or even want), so you can give a little ground but still get what you are willing to settle for?

Depends on what you want out of the deal.
Recently, a friend bought me a pro painted (actually, truly pro) Dark Eldar army. Well, I'd just picked up HUNDREDS of dollars in DE models, NIB. Now, I didn't need them. So, I posted them as a lot for less than I paid for them at "first come, first served." It was not up for haggling. Cash deal (PayPal).
That's because I just wanted them gone. There were models coming in that I needed the space for.
Sure, I could've tried to angle for more money or something but, in this instance, I wanted money for the models and I knew what I'd take. So, I just posted my best offer.
I actually find myself doing that more and more often when I'm only selling. I just post my best price and I state it as being such. I don't have a lot of time for the back & forth, so I'd rather just get the deal done.

Interestingly, that leads me into my commentary re: taking the first offer.
If I just want the things gone, I don't want to deal with the waiting game and playing 2 sides against each other. I just want to complete the deal. The saved time is more than worth the extra couple bucks. So, really, I can't totally get on boaord with Norse's initial post. I can understand why someone else might do it, but I can see -just as easily- why they wouldn't.

Eric

[TrentL]

I've only really traded on my local forum until someone pointed me here, but I have noticed that most times people will deal with the first person who emails them.

Sometimes I'll send the person a message increasing the amount the seller wanted to see if I could lure the sale to me, but for the most part people are just 100% loyal to the first person who send them a message... sorta silly if I'm willing to pay a couple of extra $$ why be loyal to the person who checks the site constantly?

So I hear ya, its frustrating because I work with the Government of Canada and I can't check the internet 24/7 so I lose out alot