Man cured of AIDS?
Governments seek to control the Internet
War for Internet control may lead to fracture
Interesting news of late
Moderator: Moderators
Interesting news of late
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No one cares, eh?
You will in a few years when it affects your life.
You will in a few years when it affects your life.
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Practicing for the mass exodus to Canada, eh?insidius wrote:No one cares, eh?
I'm sure lots of people care, but much of this site is centered around hobbies dealing with fantasy worlds set in various time periods. Part of the beauty of these worlds is that they are not our real world, and so don't have real world problems that we have to worry about.
There are countless other places full of discussions of the sorts of issues you brought up. I frequent some of them. However, i still take pleasure knowing that there are places i can go that are blissfully devoid of arguments over the latest world news and politics.
If I wanted to discuss them in 'countless other places' I would have. Turns out that I'd rather discuss them with a community I'm comfortable with where I 'know' a few people.
Just surprised that no one chimed in. Guess I shouldn't be.
In any event, I believe the latter two articles could affect Bartertown adversely in the future. My intention was not to set out to create an "arguement" here. It was to bring to the attention of those that would take notice an important piece of history in the making.
Not all of us like to escape into our wargames, but thanks for your opinion regardless. A discussion was all I was looking for.
Just surprised that no one chimed in. Guess I shouldn't be.
In any event, I believe the latter two articles could affect Bartertown adversely in the future. My intention was not to set out to create an "arguement" here. It was to bring to the attention of those that would take notice an important piece of history in the making.
Not all of us like to escape into our wargames, but thanks for your opinion regardless. A discussion was all I was looking for.
mon·ey: noun; a good that acts as a medium of exchange in transactions.
Money is a good like everything else; if your rating is lower, you ship first whether money is involved or not.
USPS Mail Fraud / / FBI Internet Fraud Center
Money is a good like everything else; if your rating is lower, you ship first whether money is involved or not.
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Linrandir ( 108 )
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I'd read all these beforehand...
Would you like the full half hour argument or the five minute?
In seriousness. If it turns out that the Brit's story is true, it would be an awesome step forward in the treatment of HIV/AIDS. I know, I know, the Freaks, frootloops and morons who demand that AIDS is God's punishment to homosexuals, blacks, decadent Americans, bottlecap collectors, or whatever are going to scream.
I know the millions on millions of HIV/AIDS sufferers would be thrilled. For their sakes, I hope this isn't a lab fnorkup.
Regarding the Internet.
I can kinda see the argument that the Internet is a worldwide thing now, but...uh...F**K YOU European Union. F**K YOU Brazil and Iran. We invented it, built it, we maintain it. Once you start ponying up some cash, some ideas, and some technology that you didn't steal from either us or the Japanese, we'll talk.
F**K YOU for suggesting that the United Nations, the most broken and corrupt international entity out there (oil for food anyone???) regulate the Internet. That's like putting a cult in charge of a cult-deprogramming hotline (which happened, and while I am at it F**K YOU Scientology). It's called a Conflict of Interest.
If a network fracture happens, as there is a good chance it might, I can see regional internets developing. FranceNet (could be on fire all the time and surrender whenever someone tries to hack them), AsiaNet, USANet, and so forth. I think if that happens, major sites like Google and the various ISPs out there will design portal pages, or the browsers will adapt to offer a choice...
You know, like if I type in www.bartertown.com and there just happens to be another www.bartertown.com over on AsiaNet, Firefox asks me which one I want to connect to.
Personally though I don't see a schism happening - the infrastructure is too entrenched, it really wouldn't make sense to try and reinvent the wheel.
*ding*
Good morning.
Would you like the full half hour argument or the five minute?
In seriousness. If it turns out that the Brit's story is true, it would be an awesome step forward in the treatment of HIV/AIDS. I know, I know, the Freaks, frootloops and morons who demand that AIDS is God's punishment to homosexuals, blacks, decadent Americans, bottlecap collectors, or whatever are going to scream.
I know the millions on millions of HIV/AIDS sufferers would be thrilled. For their sakes, I hope this isn't a lab fnorkup.
Regarding the Internet.
I can kinda see the argument that the Internet is a worldwide thing now, but...uh...F**K YOU European Union. F**K YOU Brazil and Iran. We invented it, built it, we maintain it. Once you start ponying up some cash, some ideas, and some technology that you didn't steal from either us or the Japanese, we'll talk.
F**K YOU for suggesting that the United Nations, the most broken and corrupt international entity out there (oil for food anyone???) regulate the Internet. That's like putting a cult in charge of a cult-deprogramming hotline (which happened, and while I am at it F**K YOU Scientology). It's called a Conflict of Interest.
If a network fracture happens, as there is a good chance it might, I can see regional internets developing. FranceNet (could be on fire all the time and surrender whenever someone tries to hack them), AsiaNet, USANet, and so forth. I think if that happens, major sites like Google and the various ISPs out there will design portal pages, or the browsers will adapt to offer a choice...
You know, like if I type in www.bartertown.com and there just happens to be another www.bartertown.com over on AsiaNet, Firefox asks me which one I want to connect to.
Personally though I don't see a schism happening - the infrastructure is too entrenched, it really wouldn't make sense to try and reinvent the wheel.
*ding*
Good morning.
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Alkatchoff ( 90 )
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Sigh... another France comment. And this one's about the riots too. Someone's awful quick in forgetting L.AI can see regional internets developing. FranceNet (could be on fire all the time and surrender whenever someone tries to hack them)
The internet ownership debate is a lot of fun, actually. But I have to agree with Lin that the U.N shouldn't be trusted with it. No virutal progress would ever happen if that was the case. I'm not sure if I'm happy with the U.S being in control of the internet either, but so far, I don't really have much to complain about. It just feels odd to have a country 'own' the internet.
Alkatchoff
I present to you:
A DECLARATION OF THE INDEPENDENCE OF CYBERSPACE
Governments of the Industrial World, you weary giants of flesh and steel, I come from Cyberspace, the new home of Mind. On behalf of the future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome among us. You have no sovereignty where we gather.
We have no elected government, nor are we likely to have one, so I address you with no greater authority than that with which liberty itself always speaks. I declare the global social space we are building to be naturally independent of the tyrannies you seek to impose on us. You have no moral right to rule us nor do you possess any methods of enforcement we have true reason to fear.
Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed. You have neither solicited nor received ours. We did not invite you. You do not know us, nor do you know our world. Cyberspace does not lie within your borders. Do not think that you can build it, as though it were a public construction project. You cannot. It is an act of nature and it grows itself through our collective actions.
You have not engaged in our great and gathering conversation, nor did you create the wealth of our marketplaces. You do not know our culture, our ethics, or the unwritten codes that already provide our society more order than could be obtained by any of your impositions.
You claim there are problems among us that you need to solve. You use this claim as an excuse to invade our precincts. Many of these problems don't exist. Where there are real conflicts, where there are wrongs, we will identify them and address them by our means. We are forming our own Social Contract . This governance will arise according to the conditions of our world, not yours. Our world is different.
Cyberspace consists of transactions, relationships, and thought itself, arrayed like a standing wave in the web of our communications. Ours is a world that is both everywhere and nowhere, but it is not where bodies live.
We are creating a world that all may enter without privilege or prejudice accorded by race, economic power, military force, or station of birth.
We are creating a world where anyone, anywhere may express his or her beliefs, no matter how singular, without fear of being coerced into silence or conformity.
Your legal concepts of property, expression, identity, movement, and context do not apply to us. They are based on matter, There is no matter here.
Our identities have no bodies, so, unlike you, we cannot obtain order by physical coercion. We believe that from ethics, enlightened self-interest, and the commonweal, our governance will emerge . Our identities may be distributed across many of your jurisdictions. The only law that all our constituent cultures would generally recognize is the Golden Rule. We hope we will be able to build our particular solutions on that basis. But we cannot accept the solutions you are attempting to impose.
In the United States, you have today created a law, the Telecommunications Reform Act, which repudiates your own Constitution and insults the dreams of Jefferson, Washington, Mill, Madison, DeToqueville, and Brandeis. These dreams must now be born anew in us.
You are terrified of your own children, since they are natives in a world where you will always be immigrants. Because you fear them, you entrust your bureaucracies with the parental responsibilities you are too cowardly to confront yourselves. In our world, all the sentiments and expressions of humanity, from the debasing to the angelic, are parts of a seamless whole, the global conversation of bits. We cannot separate the air that chokes from the air upon which wings beat.
In China, Germany, France, Russia, Singapore, Italy and the United States, you are trying to ward off the virus of liberty by erecting guard posts at the frontiers of Cyberspace. These may keep out the contagion for a small time, but they will not work in a world that will soon be blanketed in bit-bearing media.
Your increasingly obsolete information industries would perpetuate themselves by proposing laws, in America and elsewhere, that claim to own speech itself throughout the world. These laws would declare ideas to be another industrial product, no more noble than pig iron. In our world, whatever the human mind may create can be reproduced and distributed infinitely at no cost. The global conveyance of thought no longer requires your factories to accomplish.
These increasingly hostile and colonial measures place us in the same position as those previous lovers of freedom and self-determination who had to reject the authorities of distant, uninformed powers. We must declare our virtual selves immune to your sovereignty, even as we continue to consent to your rule over our bodies. We will spread ourselves across the Planet so that no one can arrest our thoughts.
We will create a civilization of the Mind in Cyberspace. May it be more humane and fair than the world your governments have made before.
John Perry Barlow, Cognitive Dissident
Co-Founder, Electronic Frontier Foundation
Davos, Switzerland
February 8, 1996
A DECLARATION OF THE INDEPENDENCE OF CYBERSPACE
Governments of the Industrial World, you weary giants of flesh and steel, I come from Cyberspace, the new home of Mind. On behalf of the future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome among us. You have no sovereignty where we gather.
We have no elected government, nor are we likely to have one, so I address you with no greater authority than that with which liberty itself always speaks. I declare the global social space we are building to be naturally independent of the tyrannies you seek to impose on us. You have no moral right to rule us nor do you possess any methods of enforcement we have true reason to fear.
Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed. You have neither solicited nor received ours. We did not invite you. You do not know us, nor do you know our world. Cyberspace does not lie within your borders. Do not think that you can build it, as though it were a public construction project. You cannot. It is an act of nature and it grows itself through our collective actions.
You have not engaged in our great and gathering conversation, nor did you create the wealth of our marketplaces. You do not know our culture, our ethics, or the unwritten codes that already provide our society more order than could be obtained by any of your impositions.
You claim there are problems among us that you need to solve. You use this claim as an excuse to invade our precincts. Many of these problems don't exist. Where there are real conflicts, where there are wrongs, we will identify them and address them by our means. We are forming our own Social Contract . This governance will arise according to the conditions of our world, not yours. Our world is different.
Cyberspace consists of transactions, relationships, and thought itself, arrayed like a standing wave in the web of our communications. Ours is a world that is both everywhere and nowhere, but it is not where bodies live.
We are creating a world that all may enter without privilege or prejudice accorded by race, economic power, military force, or station of birth.
We are creating a world where anyone, anywhere may express his or her beliefs, no matter how singular, without fear of being coerced into silence or conformity.
Your legal concepts of property, expression, identity, movement, and context do not apply to us. They are based on matter, There is no matter here.
Our identities have no bodies, so, unlike you, we cannot obtain order by physical coercion. We believe that from ethics, enlightened self-interest, and the commonweal, our governance will emerge . Our identities may be distributed across many of your jurisdictions. The only law that all our constituent cultures would generally recognize is the Golden Rule. We hope we will be able to build our particular solutions on that basis. But we cannot accept the solutions you are attempting to impose.
In the United States, you have today created a law, the Telecommunications Reform Act, which repudiates your own Constitution and insults the dreams of Jefferson, Washington, Mill, Madison, DeToqueville, and Brandeis. These dreams must now be born anew in us.
You are terrified of your own children, since they are natives in a world where you will always be immigrants. Because you fear them, you entrust your bureaucracies with the parental responsibilities you are too cowardly to confront yourselves. In our world, all the sentiments and expressions of humanity, from the debasing to the angelic, are parts of a seamless whole, the global conversation of bits. We cannot separate the air that chokes from the air upon which wings beat.
In China, Germany, France, Russia, Singapore, Italy and the United States, you are trying to ward off the virus of liberty by erecting guard posts at the frontiers of Cyberspace. These may keep out the contagion for a small time, but they will not work in a world that will soon be blanketed in bit-bearing media.
Your increasingly obsolete information industries would perpetuate themselves by proposing laws, in America and elsewhere, that claim to own speech itself throughout the world. These laws would declare ideas to be another industrial product, no more noble than pig iron. In our world, whatever the human mind may create can be reproduced and distributed infinitely at no cost. The global conveyance of thought no longer requires your factories to accomplish.
These increasingly hostile and colonial measures place us in the same position as those previous lovers of freedom and self-determination who had to reject the authorities of distant, uninformed powers. We must declare our virtual selves immune to your sovereignty, even as we continue to consent to your rule over our bodies. We will spread ourselves across the Planet so that no one can arrest our thoughts.
We will create a civilization of the Mind in Cyberspace. May it be more humane and fair than the world your governments have made before.
John Perry Barlow, Cognitive Dissident
Co-Founder, Electronic Frontier Foundation
Davos, Switzerland
February 8, 1996
mon·ey: noun; a good that acts as a medium of exchange in transactions.
Money is a good like everything else; if your rating is lower, you ship first whether money is involved or not.
USPS Mail Fraud / / FBI Internet Fraud Center
Money is a good like everything else; if your rating is lower, you ship first whether money is involved or not.
USPS Mail Fraud / / FBI Internet Fraud Center
-
Alkatchoff ( 90 )
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- Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 9:38 pm
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Linrandir ( 108 )
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- Contact:
Yes it was.
New to Bartertown?
Read These Now!
Got ripped off?
Read This First!
Administrative Transparency: Anything you write me can and will be made public should I deem it necessary. Anything I write to you? Same deal. Fair is fair.
My Official Admin Messages have the icon in front.
Read These Now!
Got ripped off?
Read This First!
Administrative Transparency: Anything you write me can and will be made public should I deem it necessary. Anything I write to you? Same deal. Fair is fair.
My Official Admin Messages have the
icon in front.