Dragonfangs Backout

[papabearshane]

Hello all,
Just had Dragonfangs Backout of a deal 3 days after we had agreed upon the deal and My shipping info was already sent. He backed out quoting E-bay was much cheaper even though he set the Value on my trade items himself. Just wanted to let people know there is a reason Barter Town is here and thats to barter. If you want cheap purchuses theres always someone somwhere wanting to sell there stuff on E-Bay. We come to barter town to Trade what we are not using anymore to someone who wants it and has somthing we could use.

Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:20 am
by Dragonfangs

Hi Shane,

I'm thinking about jumping into O&G and I'm interested in these guys:
BFSP Gobbos (80+40 converted ones) Mix of a bunch of sets

Can you give me some details on the conversion work. Do they all match like a unit? Are the all BFSP? 120 total? How many command groups?

I have a TON of Dwarves so I'm sure we can work something out. How much in retail trade value do you want for the BFSP models?
I also have a OOP metal Steggy (NIB). Any interest in that edition of the model?

Thanks and let me know. I'll have you a solid offer ASAP.
Bill
: )=


Subject: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More

papabearshane wrote:
Hello all im looking to finish up some projects and clean up some of my extras and un used stuff. thanks for looking............Not really looking to sell but reasonable offers will be considered. dont ask how much because everything is based on what you want to pay so just Pm me offers and ill say yes/no or work somthing out. Retail for retail on trades unless damaged/painted or converted plastics. Older models are not current retail price with me but will give you good trade value for it if in good shape.

I am Not looking to buy!

Wants:

Beastmen

New Doombull (NIB/NOS only)
10 Harpies
10 Gors (NIB/NOS prefered)
40 Ungore (NIB/NOS prefered)
6 New Minotars (NIB/NOS prefered)
2 Chaos Spawn (NIB/NOS prefered)

Lizzies

9 Kroxigors (Last edition ok)
2 Stegadons (NIB/NOS prefered)
26 Temple Guard (I do like the older metal ones)
Salimanders
Skinks

Skaven

Full IoB Skaven sets (NIB/NOS only)
Rat Ogers (NIB prefered) need about 10 more
Giant Rats and Handalers (NIB/NOS prefered) tons
Screaming Bell Kit(NOS/NIB only)
Almost everything else.....Just PM me with what you have.

High Elfs

IoB High Elf SwordMasters and Seaguard i Need about 60 Seaguard and 40 Swordmasters

Dwarfs

Any None Shooting unit

O&Gs

Boyz (NIB/NOS prefered)
Reguler Gobbos (NIB/NOS prefered)
None BFSP Night Gobbos (NIB/NOS prefered)
1 Chukka
1 Lobba
Trolls (as many as I can Get)

Haves:


Sub Casts Limited edition Spider Man Collecteble Figurine 1700 somthing out of 2000 made

Dogs of War

75 Riccos Republican Guard (this includes 3 Full Commands) Unprimed/Unpainted Pending
Lizzies

Kroq-Gar on Carnosaur (NIB)

Warriors of Chaos

7 Metal oop Chaos Knights

1 Khorn Lord on Chaos steed

Brettonians

16 KotR (partialy assembled some older)

20 6th Edition Bowmen

3 Mounted Yoamen

4 Very nicly painted Pegasis Knights

1 Extra Pegasis

3 Unassembled Grail Knights


Orcs & Gobbos

BFSP Gobbos (80+40 converted ones) Mix of a bunch of sets

20 BFSP Spider Riders

Oger Kingdoms

1 Ogre Tyrent

1 Hunter w/2 Cats

Beastmen

Metal Doom Bull with 2 Hand Weps

20 metal Beastigors

Empire

Warrior Priest of Ulric foot and Mounted (NIB)

2 Hellblaster volly guns (1 Older)

1 cannon

1 way oop morter

20 handgunners

Tomb Kings

Blister of Tombguard Command metal

NIB Skull catipult

Tons of Gaming books

LOTR Rule Book (Return of the King)

Rifts

Dark ages Vampire

Doungeons & Dragons

Doungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition

Advanced Doungeons & Dragons

Advanced Doungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition

Doungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition

Star Wars

Star Wars 2nd Revised

3 Slaine The Horned God Comics 1,2,3 all in great condition Published in 1991

Thanks for looking



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:46 am
by papabearshane

these are the dregs of my army, there are roughly 9 full commands and the 40 converted are made into handwep/shiels by cutting off the spear shaft and replacing the blade of the spear on the hand, the conversions are not my own so there are a few that are missing/need work. I have seen your haves list and would be very interested in your:

23x Iron Breakers w/command
24x Hammerers w/ command
27x current Slayers w/command (2 skull pass plastic, 12 pro painted)
and one of each of your Artillery.

These are just what interest me, I have a bunch more O&Gs and might be able to part with a few more things. Thanks Shane



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:47 am
by Dragonfangs

Hi Shane,

I'm comfy with your desciptions on the conversion work. I'm sure I can fix and finish the work.
I could use 20 more NG if you have them (looking for 140 total).
If you saw my last post - you know my other O&G needs. If you can fill some need gaps - I can definately add in more.

I don't know the current trade value on BFSP models, but using @$40 for the O&G 'half' - I think $1 per should be a good chunk above average.

So take a $120+ run at my list and let me know what you'd like. I'll trade in your favor for the OOP war machines if your OK with those models and you want to stretch your dollars. Let me know.....

Thanks buddy,
Bill
: )=



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:15 pm
by papabearshane

Hello, I have:

141 BFSP Gobbos in different stages of assembaly and conversion.
1 BFSP Charicter wit squig
1 Hero with 2 hand weps
9 fanatics-2 of them oop metals and 1 in need of reataching of his ball

I would be interested in your:

24 Hammerers
1 Grudge thrower NIB
1x Dwarf Rune Lord w/ anvil of doom



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:06 pm
by Dragonfangs

Let me know how this sounds to you

141 BFSP Gobbos in different stages of assembaly and conversion. (No achers please)
9 fanatics-2 of them oop metals and 1 in need of reataching of his ball

for the

24 Hammerers
1 Grudge thrower NIB

That's some good value for your starter set models.
If that works - fire me your shipping info and I'll get them out to you on Monday.

Bill
: )=



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:24 pm
by papabearshane

Im more interested in the Anvil then the thrower i can add a wolf chariot and the 2 heros for the anvil and one of the throwers




Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:03 pm
by Dragonfangs

It's not the current Anvil. It's a hybrid I created using the old OOP anvil model.
I could use the wolf chariot, but you might want something else in trade.
Are the heros Orc models? I need a good General, Shammy, and BSB.



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:23 pm
by papabearshane

id like to see some pics of it. shanefrank3@yahoo.com i like one of a kinds



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:45 pm
by papabearshane

Thanks for the pic of the Anvil, a little to small for what I want but nice conversion.

I could throw in the Fanatics, 2 Gobbo Chars, 1 Black Orc with GW Char and the wolf chariot for the Iron Breakers if its cool with you.

so my side would be

9 Fanatics
141 BFSP Gobbos
1 Wolf Chariot
2 Gobbo Chars
1 Black Orc Char with GW

for your Hammerers and Iron Breakers



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:07 pm
by Dragonfangs

The Gobo characters I don't need. I'd like a GW Orc, but I can't go @$125 in IBs for him and the chariot.

Here is where my thinking is at. Starter set = $100 (less in the BFSP days, but we'll use this). Usually each half of models is valued at @$40
I think I sold you the IoB elves for $35 or 40

Your giving me about half of 3 starter sets and a few fanatic models - so the $125 in Hammers is a very good deal for you.
If you add in the Wolf Chariot - I can add in the Grudge Thrower (they are about equal)
If you add in the Orc w/ GW - I can add in a Dwarf Hero for you (Thane, Runesmith, or Dragonslayer)

Let me know if that works
If you still want the IBs, I'm open to trading them.... I just need more than the chariot and character in return.

PS - Do I need bits to finish any of the conversions? Can you include them?




Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:12 pm
by papabearshane

I can include bits from the Reguler NGs units. How about throwing in the 17x current two handed axe dwarf warriors w/command
instead of the character.




Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:06 pm
by Dragonfangs

Not liking that idea. He's not worth $35. I'd rather leave him out.



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:43 pm
by papabearshane

ok well then I can do with just the Hammerers for the BFSP Gobbos if your good with that.



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:49 pm
by Dragonfangs

Sure - lets do that.
Send me your shipping info and I'll get them out to you on Monday.



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:59 am
by papabearshane

ok

This is where I gave him my address



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:03 am
by Dragonfangs

Hi Shane,

I was able to pick up 100 skull pass Gobos on ebay for $30 so I'm going to cancel our trade for the Hammerers.
Good luck with your furture trades,
Bill
: )=



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:05 am
by Dragonfangs

Hi Shane,
I did some research and NFSP models sell for super cheap on ebay.
I'm sorry but I'll need to cancel our trade.
Good luck with your furture swaps,
Bill
: )=



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+More
Sent: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:54 am
by papabearshane

As we had already agreed to a trade this is considered a backout on your part. Im not upset but it is bad trading practices and I will be posting a backout thread.

[Dragonfangs]

Shane was trying to rip me off and I came to my senses.
Shane should have set a more realistic value for the starter set models. They were not worth $125 in Dwarves.
Any educated consumer is going to research trade value, yet Shane complains I did just that.

Shanes other backout thread here: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=124450
This time it's a $40 SSC for $70 in Lizzie models.

I think what Shane is really mad about is he didn't completely close these one sided deals.

Never-the-less, In Florida we have 3 buisness days to cancel any contract, and that includes this one.
Sorry dude

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

Clear as day backout.

Whether you think it's a good deal AFTER you agree to the deal or not is irrelevant. And while you may enjoy the luxury of a three day "Ha ha, all bet's are off" period in Florida, we operate with a metaphorical handshake here. And you clearly shook hands on this deal.

[Dragonfangs]

I trade retail for retail and this turned out to be less than so.

[Dragonfangs]

.....and before everyone feels the need to jump in with their .02
You won't guilt me into feeling bad about the choice to cancel this deal. My conscious is clean. Business is business.

I'm amazed Shane wants to post the details of how he angles for 2:1 value in his trades.
Like trying to add the Wolf Chariot ($33) and lone character ($15) for another $125 in Iron Breakers.
I'm sure everyone would love a deal like that, but his heads in the clouds with these swing for the fences moves.
I've no doubt these details hurt him more than me.

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

You can justify why you wanted out of the trade as long as you please.

The fact of the matter is that you should have thought of that BEFORE you agreed to the deal.

You guys negotiated, came to a MUTUAL AGREEMENT, and then you Backed Out.

[MagickalMemories]

Here's the deal... This is Bartertown. At Bartertown, haggling is part of the landscape.
Nobody faults Shane for trying to get the best deal for his models possible, and nobody faults you for wanting the better deal.

The problem -and definitely qualifying "backout" - is that you AGREED to a trade, then backed out of it.
Since you had a verified agreement, Shane posted it.

That's it.
That's where it ends.

Nobody's trying to guilt you into making the trade or feel bad. You want to make the trade? Make it. You don't? Don't. YOu want to feel bad? Feel bad. Don't want to? Don't.
The fact is, though, you violated one of our trade policies here and, while it certainly won't get you banned, he has a right to alert your potential trade partners.

Regardless of your "3 day deal" in FL, this is BTown. W have no such thing.

Also contrary to your belief, you're making yourself look bad with these posts of yours. You're telling people that your word means nothing, and you'll gladly back out on it for a better deal. Defending your action as being reasonable is worse than saying, "Yeah. I backed out. I understand the consequences. I just couldn't make the trade after I saw how cheaply I could get them somewhere else. I really shot myself in the foot by putting that dollar value on them in our trade." Admit your errors and move on, and you'll get more respect around here than leading people on about a trade, then atempting to justify it.

Eric

[Dragonfangs]

I disagree Erik.
I do fault Shane for trying to get more than an even retail trade. I think others would too. It shows he's out for himself more than a fair deal.

It's not like I am new here - I have plenty of solid feedback to show I'm an honest and fair trader.
I never ask for more than retail to retail.

The fact is, people change their minds all the time here at BarterTown.
I've change my mind before and I probably will again at some point in the future.
Others have changed their mind on deal with me. It's no big deal.

What's Shane out here - 10 minutes of free time typing PMs?
As long as no shipping has taken place and no money is lost, I don't see any reason to go post a rant about it.

Since your an Admin, why don't you post your final thoughts and lock this thread up and we can leave it at that.

[darkjedilaw]

[Admin edit]
Sorry, DJL. Had to edit your post.
The only things that should be posted into BTR's and backouts by non-staff should be information regarding the traders involved, and only if it pertains to the deal at hand.
The only exceptions to this are the person posting the thread & the person it's about.
-MM
[/Admin edit]

[MagickalMemories]

You can disagree. You can have your opinion.
Your opinions don't change the facts, though.

There's no rule saying he has to give an even, dollar-for-dollar trade.
There IS a rule saying that a broken agreement is "reportable," provided proof is provided.
You're welcome to change your mind at any time before models are shipped. If it's before an agreement is made, then you're fine. If it's after, they you're violating a well established rule of Bartertown.
If it's after the other guy shipped his stuff, we enter a whole different territory that I'm not even going to get into here, as it's superfluous.

Backing out of agreements became a reportable offense because (a) it's one potential sign of a scammer and (b) it was becoming rampant here and the site Admin at that time needed to curb it.

Obviously, I'm not accusing you or the former, but you've admitted that you've done it before, so it's definitely something that was always the possibility that it would be addressed by a "slighted" trade partner at some point.

Everything in blue is a fact. There's no disputing it. There's no opinion that will change it.

I do want to reiterate, however, that you have the ability not to complete ANY trade in which you feel slighted/uncomfortable/etc but, should you have already agreed to that trade, Bartertown has established venues in which they can be reported. That is what happened here.

There's no reason to lock the thread. The OP has made his case. Unless he has new info, there's no reason for him to post here. It's a threadjacking violation for members to post here, whether in agreement or disagreement, and the only reason for you to post is to admit to or dispute the allegations. If you dispute them, you need to provide proof that you didn't back out (just as he shows proof that you did), and we'll weigh a decision from there.

Again... you aren't being condemned by staff for backing out. There are far worse things you could have done.
We're simply stating that the report is within the reporting guidelines.

Eric

[Edit] @ djl.... only staff should be commenting in these threads (see above). Please, double-check the rules.

Also, @ all.... I sign it at the end of every post or PM. Is it so hard to get the spelling right?

[Ironhide]

REMNDER: Read the site rules! They can be found here: viewforum.php?f=44

Failure to read and abide by the rules can lead to consequences you may not like. In this case, papabearshane can now give a negative reference to Dragonfangs for backing out on a deal. Don't like it? Take it up with the Linrandir.

[papabearshane]

This is my last post on here as I am throughly done with this member of BT and sad that he would accuse me of trying to cheat him.



Re: Looking for WHFB H: WHFB+MoreSent: Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:41 pm
From: papabearshane
To: Dragonfangs

As far as you accusing me of trying to rip you off, I made a deal with another long standing member here on BT for 100 Riccos republican Guard. He wanted 200 BFSP Night Gobbos valued by him at $1 each. he gave me an extra $200 dollers in value on the trade as he was a very nice guy and wanted to get them out of his closet. I am only telling you this because this is Barter Town, E-bay dose not set our prices. The value you put on the Night Gobbos was your own I did not try to force you to agree to that price, you stated that is how much they were worth in your own mind. Sadly you did not think of this before accusing me of trying to cheat you. I am sorry you feel that way but there is nothing I am sorry for with regards to our deal. I will be posting this on the Back Out thread. Good trading to you.

Shane

[Dragonfangs]

I have great feedback from Shane on 8/27/2010 listing what a great trade we had......
Again, I'm sorry Shane was upset I changed my mind on our 2nd deal. As the first to act in our transaction; I maintain that I had the right to do so.
As someone who was out nothing except a few minutes of time, he should have let it go. This whole thread has take WAY more time and effort.

By taking it public here Shane forced me to explain my reasoning, which is that I felt the deal was one sided.
There's really nothing more to say so this is also my last post on the matter.

Back to trading...........

[Dragonfangs]

Eric,

1) Sorry about the previous K,
2) I reviewed the rules thread Ironhide provided : viewforum.php?f=44

Perhaps I'm missing something. Please point me to the rule or paragraph that covers your statement:
There IS a rule saying that a broken agreement is "reportable," provided proof is provided.
You're welcome to change your mind at any time before models are shipped. If it's before an agreement is made, then you're fine. If it's after, they you're violating a well established rule of Bartertown.

Thank you

There's no rule saying he has to give an even, dollar-for-dollar trade.
There IS a rule saying that a broken agreement is "reportable," provided proof is provided.
You're welcome to change your mind at any time before models are shipped. If it's before an agreement is made, then you're fine. If it's after, they you're violating a well established rule of Bartertown.
If it's after the other guy shipped his stuff, we enter a whole different territory that I'm not even going to get into here, as it's superfluous.

Backing out of agreements became a reportable offense because (a) it's one potential sign of a scammer and (b) it was becoming rampant here and the site Admin at that time needed to curb it.

Obviously, I'm not accusing you or the former, but you've admitted that you've done it before, so it's definitely something that was always the possibility that it would be addressed by a "slighted" trade partner at some point.

Everything in blue is a fact. There's no disputing it. There's no opinion that will change it.

I do want to reiterate, however, that you have the ability not to complete ANY trade in which you feel slighted/uncomfortable/etc but, should you have already agreed to that trade, Bartertown has established venues in which they can be reported. That is what happened here.

There's no reason to lock the thread. The OP has made his case. Unless he has new info, there's no reason for him to post here. It's a threadjacking violation for members to post here, whether in agreement or disagreement, and the only reason for you to post is to admit to or dispute the allegations. If you dispute them, you need to provide proof that you didn't back out (just as he shows proof that you did), and we'll weigh a decision from there.

Again... you aren't being condemned by staff for backing out. There are far worse things you could have done.
We're simply stating that the report is within the reporting guidelines.

Eric

[Edit] @ djl.... only staff should be commenting in these threads (see above). Please, double-check the rules.

Also, @ all.... I sign it at the end of every post or PM. Is it so hard to get the spelling right?

[MagickalMemories]

Eric,

Perhaps I'm missing something. Please point me to the rule or paragraph that covers your statement:
There IS a rule saying that a broken agreement is "reportable," provided proof is provided.
You're welcome to change your mind at any time before models are shipped. If it's before an agreement is made, then you're fine. If it's after, they you're violating a well established rule of Bartertown.

Thank you

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=62717

Everything you need is in there or has a link to it in there.


Eric