Newb w/Quick Message to Long-time Bartertown Users

[mattcjustmattc]

Sorry folks, this may land me in hot water but it's a risk I'm willing to take.....I'm not coming back anyways.

As someone who HASN'T hawked thousands of $$s of tiny metal soldiers, orcs and spaceships online, let me tell ya I've grown weary of people with ratings of 10,000,000+ telling me I should just accept that they've got some cyber-based moral advantage over me and that I'm therefore obligated to take on the risk of shipping my stuff well before they decide they're ready to pay. That kinda goes against logic, and the way in which they present that stance has become offensive. It's not my fault some basement-dweller jipped you 3 years ago. If you can't show a little faith in people, then don't expose yourself to online trading.

For those of you who feel you can clip some insulting, condescending disclaimer to the bottom of your PMs. A trader's bartertown rating doesn't mean anything to me. I've only got a few under my belt because I've only had to come here a few times. I could have shipped trades simultaneously ....meaning I'd haved expected to see shipping confirmation of your minis within the same business day that I sent my tracking number to you.

If you'd been buying you should have expected to pay before I took the risk of mailing my minis to you (the idea of mailing in hopes the $$ shows up after goods leave the door goes against every biz model I've heard of).

As your expectations are different, I'm sorry to have wasted your time. If I seem confrontational you should realize your disclaimers really became offensive.

No fears, though. I ain't coming back.

Regards
Matt

[Linrandir]

With all due respect...



Thanks for the ragequit. A fair amount of your moral outrage is lost by the fact that you clearly have a hard time with other people's trade positions but expect them to change in order to fit you. If you don't like how they want to do things, then don't do business with them and tell them why. Then you find other people who are more agreeable to your terms (srsly, we've got over 17,000 registered users) and trade more with them instead.

That is why this is called "BARTER"town as opposed to...eBay, for example. Sometimes you're going to encounter people who are intractable in their trade posture - you either deal their way or you don't get what you want. That is life sometimes. However, you are perfectly capable of deciding how you want to react - you may suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or take up arms, and by opposing end them.

But since you won't come back, I'll leave this for everyone else to read.

[Gaijin18]

ahhhh,somebody call the waaaaaambulance

[Stanislav]

Sorry you feel that way. However, since the trade rating is the Currency of the Realm, your attitude is probably better served on another site....Oh wait, there really isn't one as established as this one.

It's called pay your dues, and when you do, you'll see the tables are turned. All of us started with brand new ratings of "0", and made it through. You only see it from one side . All of us have seen it from your point of view, and one that you can't simply because you haven't been around as long (hence the higher rating). Try ebay, I really just don't like the idea of them taking a commission out of my take, and try trading something on there.

The business model may seem out of whack to you, but...for the most part, it seems to work.

Since you are gone, well...I guess it really just doesn't matter.

[aurak_merc]

Best wishes to you in your future endeavors OP.

Now, to counterpoint a bit: Look at my references. 200+, all positive. I am considered fairly normal by most. I trade for fun and to save a bit of cash instead of buying more "stuff" at full price.

Recently I have encounted a slew of low ranked traders and sellers whom insist upon receiving first. To me that is foolish and I tend not to deal with them. That 200+ rating says I have been deemed trustworthy to a certain degree. That degree is generally considered higher than someone with a 20 rating for instance. Heck, I was asked to send first the other day by someone with a near 600 reference level. They earned that respect by putting in their time and trading honestly, so I did it.

Now tell me, how does this sound:
Bob (10) has 5 space marines and wants to trade for 5 Orks. Joe (200) has the 5 Orks and wants to trade him. They agree, and Bob sends first due to references, since there is really nothing else to go on.

Now:
Bob (12) found 5 more Space Marines in his stash. He wants to sell them for $10. Mike (250) decides that he wants those and offers the $10, and asks Bob to send first due to ratings. Bob freaks out, essentially calls Mike a scammer, and insists that his Marines will not be sent until the money arrives and "clears", and that Mike should never have asked such a thing in the first place, since Bob is such a stand-up guy.

You see, the issues a lot of traders have is that Bob's "word" that he is a stand-up guy is literally meaningless. None of us know Bob, we only know what others have said about him. When enough people say that Bob is a straight dealer(references), he will be trusted more. Every scammer in history starts out with a variation of "Trust me".

[HarlequinZero]

Every scammer in history starts out with a variation of "Trust me".

That's the heart of the Bartertown lower rating ships first tradition. The higher the rating and the more time a person has invested in the site means they will lose a lot if they go rogue. A newbie has nowhere near as much to lose as they have little to nothing invested in the site.

[MagickalMemories]

Someone doesn't seem to have read the BTR forum.

lolz

I find it HILARIOUS that he thinks he needed a ragequit to make his point. People make the same point all of the time and still manage not to get banned or kicked of the site.

I was looking for some good "Don't let the door hit you..." imagery. Google-fu failure.

This is the best I could come up with:




Eric

[starslayer]

""If you can't show a little faith in people, then don't expose yourself to online trading.""

Follow YOUR own advice.

You have a rating of a mighty 14. Seven trades. So someone with a rating of 400, 200 trades should bow to you? Really? Why? Who has more to lose?
The new guy with 7 trades whos been here a few months or the guy with 200 trades whos been here 5 years.

High ranking members have put in their time, paid their dues and EARNED their ratings. You just want to show up on day one and whine that you be given the same respect. Pathetic.

If anything you proved the OPPOSITE of what you wanted. You just showed everyone how easy it is for a new/low rating member to quit.

Goodbye!!!!!

[Adunaphel]

It's really a little hard to understand. If you don't want to ship first to established traders than that's cool. Don't.

If I had a rating of 14 and say someone like Stanislav and I came to a deal and he wanted me to ship first. That's fine. A quick look at his references will tell you that the chance of him going rogue (ripping me off) is VERY small.

I think this is a hard concept for newer traders to understand. What they see are numbers and they don't understand what that means. They don't understand that most established traders (over 50 good trades or so) REALLY, REALLY don't want the hassle of a bad trade because they have spent a lot of time and effort to get themselves in that position of being trustworthy. It seems there are a lot of newer traders that think they are trustworthy because they are. But, without the proof of a larger, stable list of trade references they just are NOT trustworthy yet. It's NOTHING personal. That's just how this website works.

When I was new here (a ways back), I had NO problem whatsoever with sending first to various traders here. Yes, it was a bit nerve wracking at first, but I found that to be the better of my two options. Simulsending or waiting for an even newer trader than me to send the goods was usually more of a problem.

What is really disheartening about this thread is the fact that the original poster built this up and then just spewed it out and quit. Why quit? At least wait until some "Long-time Bartertowners" could state their case.

I have tried on several occasions to explain to newer traders that if they send first to an experienced trader with a rating of over 100 they have a MUCH greater chance of a positive trade than if they simulsend with somebody who has the same or lower rating than them. Sometimes, the trader vehemently disagrees. Sometimes they tell me that they just CAN'T do it. Sometimes they come around. All of it works for me. There are a LOT of fish in this ocean.

Karl

[reegsk]

I've only been on this site two years, but I've built up a decent amount of feedback. To be honest, when I first started, I sought out higher-rated traders and willingly shipped first. Know why? Because if you ship first, and you're dealing with a scammer, you're screwed. Sure, you may get some recompense, but you have to put in a Hell of a lot of work and it's a huge pain. However, if you ship first to someone with a significantly higher rating (100+), there is still the chance they may rip you off, but there's a much smaller chance of that happening. As people have said, people with higher ratings have, to a degree, proven their trustworthiness. And if you sneak a look through the BTR thread, you'll see that the majority of scammers (note: majority, not all) have very low ratings, because they create an account, set up multiple trades, see how much stuff they can grab before they get reported and run for it. Personally, I was happy to deal with those higher-rated sellers and ship first in the comforting knowledge that they were established, reliable traders. Then, once my rating got a little higher, I opened up my range of trading partners, because I could ask those with a lower rating to ship first, as low-rating traders are a complete unknown.

But as Lin said -- if you don't want to meet a person's particular trade requirements, don't trade with them.

[montaa]

<trout armor>
Yeah!! All you jackasses with a 10,000,000 or better rating better get off your high horses and honor those of us below you with buckets of gold!! Yeah you heard me, GOLD!!

TRADERAGE!!!!! ARGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!

If no one gives me thousands of dollars worth of well painted minis in the next hour I'm leaving and NEVER coming back to trade with any of you, EVER!!!!

And because I've always wanted to!!!!
</trout armor>

[kturock]

2 very simple and hopefully understable points to the OP's post.

1st. most if not all of the higher ranked traders have their state and or city listed in their avatars. a scammer usually doesn't. [you might want to change your info.]

2nd. who would you rather buy from online, a dealer with low or no refs, or 1 with alot or high refs?

same with selling, who would your rather sell to?

just because you have the $ in hand, doesn't mean he can't or won't scam you. he can easily file a dispute with paypal..and tie up the $$ and your name for a month. he can file a claim with the charge card company, saying what he bought is broken, a fake or any number of things. [it's your word vs his.] he can stop payment on a check, thus causing you to have bounced check fees.

for me, it's not worth the hassle. if I get a mail fraud complaint against me, the inspectors go up my arse, more so than anyone one else, because I'm an employee. I'm not about to put 23 years work, my pension, benefits and such on the line, for even a couple hundred dollars worth of anything.

if I don't feel you're honest, I won't deal with you, buy, sell or trade.

[osloco]

let me tell ya I've grown weary of people with ratings of 10,000,000+

Ha ha ha! The only trader I can think of with a 10,000,000+ rating is Porkuslime I tried to think of a way to reply to this thread that was witty and mature, but all I can think of is good riddance.

[Ironhide]

I'm curious if there are any other users with low ratings that feel the same?

I will point out though that the "lower rating ships first" practice, is just that, a practice. It is not a rule. If you don't want to ship first, then you negotiate a compromise, or just don't do the deal if the guy doesn't want to budge on the point. As Lin pointed out, this is "Barter" -town. Every point of the deal is negotiable.

BTR forum doesn't really enforce the "lower rating ships first" practice either, as people with high ratings also have BTRs on them.

[leth]

I don't like the ship first on the basis that I have to wait twice as long as the other person to get my minis. In addition I have had times where they have received my minis and not shipped back for over a week. I have been one of first trades for a few people and I always aim to ship at the same time.

Also it leads to situations like the one I am currently in. I made a mistake in describing my minis, I shipped them out. He deemed the trade unacceptable, my first thought was maybe I could include something else to make up for my mistake, however in his message he made it clear that this was not going to happen so I had to pay to send them back. Now less than a week later he agreed to a trade with the same models and 2-3 additional ones. So basically it is the same only I am out an additional 10 dollars. If we had each others models we would have been more likely to reach the later trade without me loosing additional money. Now if a trade could not be reached then we would have shipped each others back

Now I understand shipping first to a point, however if my rating is 56 and theirs is something like 66 I don't think I should have to wait up 1+ weeks to get my minis or sit in what I consider the negative value zone(when I have more models out than are coming in).

Also having a higher rating does not make you better, it could mean you are just at it longer. I got to 50 in about 3 months, does that mean someone who got to 200 over 4 years is better trader than me, I don't know just food for thought.

I understand my comments wont make a difference as people in a position of power don't like to give it up. However I have found that when I trade with the people who are newer and ship at the same time they seem much happier with the trade and hopefully will stay longer and contribute to the community.