Trading Safety

[scott.clary001]

I realize there is enough safety with credit cards and the ability to issue charge backs and get your shipments covered by paypal to some extent as well as COD, ensuring the safety of the buyer and the seller, however I'm interested in any extra precautions that can be taken with trading items for items, where no actual financial transaction takes place. I just wanted to know if of any steps I could take to ensure items, even though I know there's a good trader bad trader list, but that really doesn't help if a good trader just decides to screw you over, no matter how good his rep is. You've still physically lost your product, So if anyone has any tips or links to some info that could help that'd be amazing!

Thanks,
Scott

[reegsk]

Delivery confirmation is always good. You don't have to go on the other person's word if you can check to see when your package arrived. Pictures are another one. Sure, you can't necessarily prove that the models you shipped didn't get broken between the photo shoot and shipping, but it helps. And I try to offer insurance. If you offer insurance, and the other party refuses, then something happens in transit, it's less likely that they could blame you for it (provided you packed the box up adequately).

[scott.clary001]

That's not bad, I always do insurance, I'm just wondering if they just end up sending something completely different then what they agreed to, end up effing you over, and then all they get is banned from a forum. I'm mostly asking this because i'm about to take part in an army swap, and I've always been warry of this, not because of the person, just simply because we end up shipping at the same time, and I won't know if they pulled through untill I recieve the package, which will be 2 or 3 weeks after I've sent mine out!

[Gaijin18]

Another tip,especially for someone just starting out trading would be to get a phone number or two if available just in case as it were.

But DC,insurance really reading over someone's refs...Reading over the BTR section. If something sounds too good to be true it usually is.Get as much info as you can about an item ect.

One thing about paypal though,it sucks. If someone rips you off,all they have to do is empty their account and you get nothing back.

[osloco]

I would recommend trading with with a reasonably high rating too. When you are new, trading with people with low ratings is a bad idea. You have better chances receiving something from someone with higher amounts of trades. If you still want to go ahead with it I agree with the above comments, get all the info you can, call them and talk to them too. It may save you some bad trader headaches and give you a better idea of who you are dealing with.

That's not bad, I always do insurance, I'm just wondering if they just end up sending something completely different then what they agreed to, end up effing you over, and then all they get is banned from a forum. I'm mostly asking this because i'm about to take part in an army swap, and I've always been warry of this, not because of the person, just simply because we end up shipping at the same time, and I won't know if they pulled through untill I recieve the package, which will be 2 or 3 weeks after I've sent mine out!

[reegsk]

I know some people, for large army swaps with similar ratings, will do the trade in pieces. It's more expensive with shipping, but if you send, say, 25% of the army at a time, you're less likely to lose an entire army. And remember that agreeing to trade x for y is binding. If you send them y, and they either don't send you x or send you something completely wrong, they are legally obligated to correct it, or you can file for mail fraud and/or theft. I believe Ironhide has links in his sig line for serious offenses that warrant legal action.

[Stanislav]

Not saying that you are completely unfounded in your reasoning, and all those that have chimed in are giving you very good advice. However, I think it bears to be said that traders with high ratings are doubtful to squander them with even a large trade of an entire army.

I have been here for a few years, and built up my trading reputation. For me to go "rogue" and screw someone...not likely. Because I have so much time invested into this site, if I was to go rogue, it would kind of cut my options down for later on. It's not worth it. Even though I do not currently play the two big games that this site has a fanbase for (Warhammer Fantasy and 40K), I still do a lot of trading and selling, and I like the benefits of having a good rating.

Even a GMM Painted 3000pt all FW bitted out Space Marine army with a Thunderhawk wouldn't be worth the backlash of a bad deal on my rating (just because I don't play GW doesn't mean I never did!). Because after all, I won't play that one army every single game for the rest of my life. It's the nature of the hobby with the Angel Dust the mini companies use for a mold release agent, you always want more.

If you are that worried about it, then I suggest you stick to smaller trades until you are more comfortable with the process. That goes with dealing with higher and lower rated traders.

This site works as well as it does due to the thankless job of the mods and admin. When dealing with the total volume produced by the trades over time, they do a damn good job. Are a couple going to slip through, unfortunately yes. Even then those same mods go above and beyond to try to make things right if they can. As was noted above, always be wary of a deal that seems to good to be true, but you know what? Those are the deals I am always looking for!

[scott.clary001]

Thanks so much for all your help! I really appreciate the feedback that I got, this community is amazing, I'm looking forward to being part of it for a while!

[MagickalMemories]

A lot of good info above.
I won't waste time rehashing anything, but I do want to say one thing nobody else has (unledd reading for comprehension has failed me... again...).
Regardless of their rating, if someone you're trading with wants to screw you over, they will - if they can pull it off. That's the bottom line.
Keep in mind that I said TRADING and not POTENTIALLY trading.

COD doesn't do a lot to protect the buyer. You have to pay the USPS before you're allowed to get your package. If you pay, then open a box filled with trash, you're as SOL as if you paid in advance. I'll never buy via COD.

I'm mostly asking this because i'm about to take part in an army swap, and I've always been warry of this, not because of the person, just simply because we end up shipping at the same time, and I won't know if they pulled through untill I recieve the package, which will be 2 or 3 weeks after I've sent mine out!

If you're doing a simul-ship with a well established trader, they're taking a bigger risk than you are, considering your rating (nothing personal).
What is the rating of your trade partner?

Eric

[kturock]

A lot of good info above.
I won't waste time rehashing anything, but I do want to say one thing nobody else has (unledd reading for comprehension has failed me... again...).
Regardless of their rating, if someone you're trading with wants to screw you over, they will - if they can pull it off. That's the bottom line.
Keep in mind that I said TRADING and not POTENTIALLY trading.

COD doesn't do a lot to protect the buyer. You have to pay the USPS before you're allowed to get your package. If you pay, then open a box filled with trash, you're as SOL as if you paid in advance. I'll never buy via COD. [emphasis added]

I'm mostly asking this because i'm about to take part in an army swap, and I've always been warry of this, not because of the person, just simply because we end up shipping at the same time, and I won't know if they pulled through untill I recieve the package, which will be 2 or 3 weeks after I've sent mine out!

If you're doing a simul-ship with a well established trader, they're taking a bigger risk than you are, considering your rating (nothing personal).
What is the rating of your trade partner?

Eric

Except it's mail fraud, and you have documented what was purchased. If you're smart, when you pick up the box, open it right then and there. The window clerk, [since most likely you won't have the cash and be at home when the carrier arrives], will see it whats inside. They might not know a space marine from an eldar guardian, but they can see trash, empty sprues and other obvious things.

Also, you can always pay COD by check, made payable to the sender....[unless the sender says 'cash only'].
Then you just stop payment on the check.
Then the seller has to dispute the payment, by getting in touch with you. [or and this is probably illegal, you can always just make sure there isn't enough money in the account to cover the check..then the seller will have a bad check fee. The buyer will have an over-draft or bounced check fee, but it might be less than a stop check fee.]


So Eric, COD does have buit in protection, if you know how to use it.

[MagickalMemories]

Except it's mail fraud, and you have documented what was purchased.

True... and I hadn't forgotten that... but how many people can we go look at in the BTR forum right now who didn't give a rip about mail Fraud. You know?
Although it's illegal, it doesn't mean they won't do it. That was the point I was trying to make.

If you're smart, when you pick up the box, open it right then and there. The window clerk, [since most likely you won't have the cash and be at home when the carrier arrives], will see it whats inside. They might not know a space marine from an eldar guardian, but they can see trash, empty sprues and other obvious things.

Good point about going to a clerk.
Point made: If you're paying via C.O.D., do NOT accept the delivery from your mail carrier. Go to your local USPS to pick it up.

Also, you can always pay COD by check, made payable to the sender....[unless the sender says 'cash only'].
Then you just stop payment on the check.
Then the seller has to dispute the payment, by getting in touch with you.

I was thinking cash & m.o. were the only ways to pay for it. Didn't know a personal check was allowed. Seems too shaky to me. I know if *I* was selling via C.O.D., I would only accept CASH... with the very next thing you said being the exact reason why. : )

[or and this is probably illegal, you can always just make sure there isn't enough money in the account to cover the check..then the seller will have a bad check fee. The buyer will have an over-draft or bounced check fee, but it might be less than a stop check fee.]

Definitely NOT a wise decision. You're right that it's illegal.
First... you're going to get a NSF [Non-Sufficient Funds] or OD [Overdraft] fee on your account (if it's OD, the bank paid the check - then you're screwed). Granted, the $35 NSF will probably be a DEAL, compared to the amount of the check. : )
Not that the guy you wrote the check to WOULD press charges (considering what he's doing) but -for the record- it's against the law (Felony, I think) to write a check that you do not have the funds to cover (this includes having them at the time you write it, but not when the check presents to the bank).


So, good info, re: Clerks.

What happens, though, if you pay the clerk, open the box, then tell them it isn't what you were supposed to receive. Do they have the authority to "Return to Sender" your box & give your money back? What happens?

Eric

[kturock]

Nope. Once you open ANYTHING, letter or package, it's yours; you can't refuse it. [like they say on a tv game show, once you buy a prize, it's yours to keep.]

Now, what I SUGGEST is:
1- ask for pictures of whats SUPPOSED to be sent.
2- print out the pics and take them with you when you pick up the package.
3a- if you can pay by check, because the seller didn't state 'cash only', write the check made payable to the SELLER. The window clerk then puts it aside for later, when they or another clerk, [later] addresses an envelope and mails the check to the seller. Now you have the ability to dispute the items by stopping payment on the check. Which is your legal right.
3b- if you must pay by cash, you can use cash or a DEBIT card. You're buying a money order and the window clerk then sends it to the seller. [as above]
4- open the box while you're still at the window, with the pics of whats supposed to be inside. [yes, you will most likely have to step aside, while the clerk takes care of other customers.] If it's not right, show the clerk. Yes they should be able tell the basic difference of whats inside vs what's in the pictures. [they won't be able to judge quality of paint jobs or assembly.]

If it isn't correct, ask for a damaged claim for if the items are broken. If the items are are wrong, as in they seller sent trash sprues, bricks, ask for the phone number of the postal inspectors. Not only will you have the window clerks testimony that the pictures and items didn't match, you'll have it on film. [well a digital copy]. You see, ALL windows are recoreded 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. They will be a vidoe AND audio record of what you did and what you said to the clerk. [ture, the inspectors might not look at the record, but you can tell them you opened at the window and they have the availability to do so. It's kind of hard to lie what you received when you do on record.

Hmmm..that brings up another thought. Bring a video recorder with you. You won't be allowed to film at the window section, but you can if you go out to the outer lobby and then open the box. Show the time, and then open the box. If everythings ok, well you wasted some time and probably look foolish to everyone else. BUT...if you have someone trying to scam you....you have [more] proof that it wasn't what you ordered.

[MagickalMemories]

Good info.
Thanks.

Honestly, though... I used to be a fan of COD. Never used it, but was always willing.
As I thought more about it though, I saw that it's not any safer than regular mail, really, and not worth the extra expenditure (as the shipper).

I mean sure, you have extra "enforcement" things on your side... but you're still SOL and without your models.

Eric