8th Edition Review

[starslayer]

I do! slayers are expensive!!!

Miners will be alot better now with the increased charge ranges & combats lasting longer.(steadfast)

Locked combat? Miners appear on the table edge & charge in with great weapons swinging! Charge the miners? Explosives!! Boom!

[Asif Chaudhry]

Once upon a time a book came out called "Storm of Chaos", and it allowed me to field an entire army of slayers. It wasn't a great, outstanding, kill-em-all army, but it was nice! Then GW came along and took it away. You know how much money it costs to make an all slayer army?? Do you???

DoH - probably more than all the extra steeds and discs I got to make my heavy Daemonic cavalry. Not too mention the mob of Flamers I bought. But I feel your pain brother.

If we ever meet up for a game, I'd be more than happy to face your Slayer army list - it was funny as heck. I even bought two of those crazy "chains with axe heads flying on the end" guys to use in my Mordheim dwarf band. Pretty cool looking stuff!

[LadyAnara]

As for Anara's aversion to hordes, it could be that she faces undead regularly, and has seen her fair share of large infantry blocks failing a terror test, or being outnumbered by a skeleton horde, and simply running away full speed - horde armies in the past were always balanced by the fact that they were relatively easy to run off due to low leadership.

The horde thing migh thave been poorly chosen models by my opponent. That opinion written was a combo of both of our opinions.

The first time it was a 10 wide 50 man greatsword unit and the 2nd time a 10 wide 50 man swordsmen unit. admittadly the swordsmen fled like dogs with tails beteween their legs when a wizard ran next to them. That might explain some of his bitterness.

i have yet to fight an undead horde. although being that fear is not exactly as good as it used to be. I am not too worried.

[Norseman]

Hordes of spearmen are the bomb!!!

Nifty point.

BSBs allow for a reroll on ALL failed leadership checks now.

[Ironhide]

Pikemen are better!

[starslayer]

I heard FIRE causes FEAR in cavalry & warbeasts/hounds, or some such...true??

Nice if it is, Dwarves have a 5 point rune that causes fire/flaming attacks.

[LadyAnara]

well fire negates regen saves.

Which is nice..

[reegsk]

LA -- I think undead hordes will be more powerful now. Against a five-wide enemy unit, a Horde unit of Ghouls forty ghouls would be able to throw 28 poisoned attacks. Worse, that 40-strong unit of Ghouls is only 320 points, meaning you can have two of them and barely meet your Core requirement by 80 points. Skeletons can be nasty too, as they can take spears, but then you need to have all of the models in that fourth rank live to get your swings. The block of Ghouls could lose 13 models and still be as effective. The big change to undead hordes is that there will be significantly fewer castings of Invocation. A vamp lord with the bonus dice could sit there and cast Invocation eight times in the old rules. Now, you'll rarely see a one-die casting (unless, of course, it's the last power die), and with a max of twelve dice, you're looking at a max of six castings. Now, those castings are almost guaranteed to be successful, but that's beside the point.

Other undead nastiness could be ranked units of spirit hosts. It would be 390 points, but you could have a unit of hosts with a rank bonus and 24 attacks to the front with 120mm frontage.

SS -- Yes, it does. Chariots too. And if you storm a unit in a building and have flaming attacks, I believe you re-roll failed To Hit rolls.

IH -- I wonder if they'll even update the rules for pikes. If so, I would imagine that they'll fight in two additional ranks and keep their ASF. Man. . .I wish the Dogs of War army was still around. . .

[Norseman]

I thought pikes faught in 4 ranks. It would be 5 ranks in 8th. WOW!!!

I will have to check and see if my empire book still allows Dogs of War. (Haven't looked in awhile) Everyone thought I was weird to own 60 Leopold Leopard company. Payback baby!!!

Another interesting rule I have been thinking about.

Reform.

This type of move used to take an entire turn of movement. We still did it then because it was powerful, It offered a lot of options in the facing and structuring of our unit, but we didn't do it often because it was so expensive in costs of tying up a units movement for an entire turn.

Has anyone else given reform some thought in 8th ed. \

There are 6 different times for reform.

Normal Reform: before moving: No LD Test
Swift Reform: before moving: Ld Test: (requires muscian)
Combat Reform(Loss): after passing break test: Ld Test
Combat Reform(Win): after enemy has passed break test: No LD Test
Restrain & Reform: After enemy has fled: LD Test
Restrain & Reform: After Wiping out Enemy is Combat: No LD Test

This simple thing has REALLY changed the game. It has given A LOT of movement power to our big blocks of infantry and heavy cav.
This also is allowing winning units to not be drawn off into an empty corner of the game and not get back into the game after winning 1 battle with an expendable unit.
At first reading my mind was set spinning at all of the options this is opening up.
Adding ranks during combat (More rank bonus)
Adding files - (almost like lapping around adding attacks)
Readjusting the ranks after combat back to original size.
Fancy screening tactics with missile troops. (OMG im drooling)
Free pivots
Blocking
Pulling other units into a HtH by offering (or forcing) exposed models in front of them. (I am a very, very bad person)
Getting back into the fight 3 turns earlier than 7th after overrun.

The options keep on going.

I am not sure if many people have realized the amazing power that has been opened up in the game with this simple change.

Any other thoughts?

[reegsk]

I would definitely agree on that, Norse. It adds a feeling of mobility to otherwise slow units. Getting flank charges will be made somewhat more difficult, as you can simply turn a unit to face the flank and still get to move.

I think that's the entire point of 8th edition, though. To simplify the rules (to the point where they're still a lot of fun but no longer a headache to figure out), and to speed things up. Last edition would take you a turn to reform, a turn to move and a turn to charge to get back into the fight. Now you charge, don't overrun/chase and reform, then charge in the next turn. A LOT faster.

[starslayer]

Awesome. My Dwarves are looking better & better. Reform LD tests on LD9.

[oaflord]

Has anyone else given reform some thought in 8th ed. ..... This simple thing has REALLY changed the game. ..... I am not sure if many people have realized the amazing power that has been opened up in the game with this simple change.
Any other thoughts?

Yes I have given this a lot of thought, as I play Ogres now and given that I would start 3 wide by 6 deep in my mega block of Bulls get the uber Gut Charge, ranks and then after one round I would reform 6 wide by 3 deep. Horde rules for monstrous infantry say 6 wide for the horde rule... Still need to work out the right way to do it, but if you don't pay attention to the new reform rules, you could lose this game on that alone.

oAF

[HarlequinZero]

Anyone know how Empire Greatswords will work in percentage list building? Obviously the Greatswords themselves count against special points, but what about their detachments? Does a child unit of halberds count as core since they're a core choice or as special since they're attached to the Greatswords?

[LadyAnara]

i believe detachments count toward their parent type of slot (core, special, etc..)

[Asif Chaudhry]

i believe detachments count toward their parent type of slot (core, special, etc..)

I would be amazed if the core rulebook addressed an army specific special trait/rule - the exception that proves the rule being the Dwarven magical resistance.

I had heard however that there is a giant Errata/Addendum document coming out at the same time as the main rules that has adjustments for all the currently published army books to bring them in line with 8th ed - I would expect to see detachments answered there in the relevant Empire section.