GW 40k Ork FAQ revised today - get yer deffrollas!

[EZ mac]

Marine complaining about another army getting a weapon that can finally penetrate your Land Raider and most dreadnaughts is laughable.


Marines have so many high AV items that they can pick/make that this totally levels the playing field.


I don't know how many times I have played a game and found myself pouring fire turn after turn into Land Raiders and AV13/14 Dreadnaughts (venerable I think, plus there's a Mech that makes like the av on a dread av14 isn't there) and having little to know effect...


especially since most of the times even if you do hit the chances of you penetrating are rare and then if you do the chances that you actually get a 5/6 to disable/distroy is even harder.


You try running up on a Crusader LR with a squad of nobs in a trukk/BW and see how far you get.....


where on the other hand all of our vehicles have low AV value and coupled with the fact that SM's have a plethera of weapons they can field to distroy them....


Geez Man....a squad of bolters Rapid firing can take out a squad of trukks....Heavy bolter/Stubba could do the rest of the army pretty much. Ive just named like 3 multi-shoot weapons with +2/+3 to hits that are standard fare in your army....


And your complaining about the orcs getting 1 high AV pen. multi-shot attack that has to be done in CC??????

bad form dude...bad form.

actually I play chaos space marines and am working on a space marine army.

And it's not the 1hit it's the d6 that practically auto kill rhinos.

Because of the FAQ any transport, tank, monstorus creature (d6 st10= suck for them) get killed if they come within 13 inches of a transport a lot of the time.

Not to mention they muffin auto hit. What other strength 10 with multiple attack thing aIto hits?

A melta on average gets to hit 2/3 of the time and at pen 15 while this tank gets 3.5 auto hits with an average pen hit of 13.5.

So what because I can't kill a land raider because I decide to not make a list which I can deal with nobs I should get a special spikey trash can to beat them up?


And have YOU played against it? It. Is. Lame.

[EZ mac]

Why do u care about monliths? Tabled the infantry and you get him to auto lose! If a necron player brought 1or 2 then u should be jumping up and down because that guy just gave you the game!


Wise like Mr. Bean is wise...

Oh I dont know, maybe a monolith or two are side by side-ish and blocking you from getting to the squishy infantry that are sitting on an objective?

Yes I know all about remove necrons, auto win. Doesnt mean that I dont have a NEED to get rid of a monolith, mr bean.

you mean them hiding in 1corner? Why would u even get shot? It's not like other armies (besides basi guard) can deal with that reliably so why are u special with a st 10 kill-a-cron rammer? Why not stay back and let them have to move up? Or play with nobs on bikes and go around if they arnt in a corner?

And the mr. Bean thing was a joke about mms old avatar picture. Not u.

[MagickalMemories]

@ everyone randomly. Not just Mac.

First: Adepticon FAQ did not allow it to work for ramming. If you were told that you were using Adepticon FAQ, then it was allowed for a ram... you were MUFFINED.

Second: I only used 6 to show the MAXIMUM allowed. I'd probably never field more than 3.

Third: It *IS* S10, but it's almost a waste against infantry, as there is no AP value. Yes, it's S10, but that just makes the wounding easier. They still get a save.
Auto hit *is* huge for it, but not the be-all-end-all. Hypothetically speaking, if I ran a 5-Wagon Wall up to a SM line, I'd expect 2-3 to make it with a KFF Mek and only 1-2 without it... of course, that's with the group I play against. YMMV.
Keep in mind, also, that those S9 weapons and (S8+1 tank Hunter)~S9 weapons get to shoot the wagon from afar. We have to spend 2 turns GETTING THERE before utilizing the Rolla. If you're closing in before that... reconsider your tactics.


(BTW, I LOVE the idea of calling the Deff Rolla Army either WagonWall or Armored Brutality - those are genuius names).

I think the highest armor a Dread gets is 13. Compare that to a unit of lootas, though...
With average shots, a unit of 15 lootas gets 30 shots, 10 hits and about 1.7 glances. Yeesh.

Oh I dont know, maybe a monolith or two are side by side-ish and blocking you from getting to the squishy infantry that are sitting on an objective?

Speak not this phrase again, lest ye make me weep.

Average badly written math hammer (essay way for me to do without calc)
chart means it is a 1/3 chance to kill a tank.
@mm- a las cannon fired by a bs4 guy at a 14armor tank needs to have 48 shots on average to kill or destroy if it is in cover- needs 3) for the chart, 1/2 time nothing happens due to cover (6), 1/6 will penetrate 6x 6= 36 (36), 2/3 hit, 12 more(48) yes 48 shots on average from the front armor if it has cover...coustom force feild????
Melta/mm-( 2) it's ap 1, 1/2 time nothing happens cover (4shots),* in melta range* u will penetrate 1/2 time (also known as average) (8), 2/3 hit rate 3(ish) so roughly 11 or 10 shots at close melta range.
St 8 ranged weps do zero vrs arm 14 (except mm or meltas)

Remember that SM/CSM get a LOT of S8 and S9 weapons. Even S7 tank Hunter weapons can take down a battlewagon. Some weapons destroy it outright. Others whittle it away.

A) Remember that SM and IG have large blast shots available to certain HQ which can OBLITERATE Wagons.
B) You're presuming A14. On B-Wagons, if you deployed well, you'll get plenty of side shots. A S6 gun can do that.
C) Barring a KFF Mek, BWagons aren't typically going to get a cover save, except from other Wagons. In taht case, work from the outside in.
D) Look at the shooting in your average 2000 point SM army. If well built, there are a LOT of S6+ weapons. I shudder to even THINK ABOUT an IG list with all those muffining tanks.
:shudder:

The upgrade is VERY powerful and (IMO) stupid NOT to take, now... but, still, you have to take all factors of the game into consideration, not just what it can do to you *if* it gets up close in order to see the whole picture on them.

In an objective game, necrons don't WANT to come to you if you're orks. If you sit back & wait for that, you're playing their game. As for Nob Bikers, not everyone plays them.

Eric

[bluemeenie]

Not to mention they muffin auto hit. What other strength 10 with multiple attack thing aIto hits?

I would say Marines/even Chaos are about as close to auto-hit as you can get...not to mention some special abilities that allow you to reroll "to hits"

don't get me started on the Eldar and their BS's and psk powers that give them re-rolls


BS 2.....

means I need a 5+ to hit.

BS 4

means 3+ to hit

at most we have 2 things that can hope to pen a LR or Ven Dread

Loot gun - D3 shots 2-10 str hit

which means you have to roll a 10 to get a chance to hit or glance on the thing...and if you don't then you just wasted a crap load of shots...(I'd rather shoot a squads or smaller vehicles)

or...

Rokkit boys which is up to 15 shots at BS2 and might glance/pen on a 5+


then only thing that is (by orc standards) be dependable would be the gretchin zzapp guns...but even their it is fluctuating Str...but they would be then only thing I would actually shoot at your LR /Dreads with every turn (if you don't move LOS)

[EZ mac]

At the time of the tournament the adeptacon' FAQ DID say it was not legal to ram with rolla. It may have changed sence but again at the time it did.

St 10 insta kills toughness 4-5 and does not allow feel no pain as it insta kills, perty lame to see a unit of thunderwolfs get Instakilled to a 25point upgrade. And I hate space pups and even I felt sorry when I saw goat boys battle report even if the didn't die just what WILL happen when it does happen.)

and again why should orks who can already deal with non av14 get to insta kill arm 11 or 12 (transports)?

[carmachu]

actually I play chaos space marines and am working on a space marine army.

And it's not the 1hit it's the d6 that practically auto kill rhinos.

Because of the FAQ any transport, tank, monstorus creature (d6 st10= suck for them) get killed if they come within 13 inches of a transport a lot of the time.

Not to mention they muffin auto hit. What other strength 10 with multiple attack thing aIto hits?

A melta on average gets to hit 2/3 of the time and at pen 15 while this tank gets 3.5 auto hits with an average pen hit of 13.5.

So what because I can't kill a land raider because I decide to not make a list which I can deal with nobs I should get a special spikey trash can to beat them up?


And have YOU played against it? It. Is. Lame.

What other army has to have their S10 get up close and personal in order to do anything? Marine can be 30" roughly, tau's is reach out and touch someone from a long distance.

Me thinks you complain a bit much.

[bluemeenie]

and I completely concur on what MM said...he stated my opinion much better.

and again why should orks who can already deal with non av14 get to insta kill arm 11 or 12 (transports)?

really man...using the term "Deal" when talking about what orcs can do in regards to av14 is like saying a prostitute could deal with AID's and a broken condom.


SM's can deal with AV14
CSM's can deal iwth AV14
Eldar/DEldar can deal with AV14
heck even IG can deal with AV14

and all can Deal with AV14 very well at range.

Orcs on a good day with the wind at the backs of their roles might be able to "deal" with 1 AV 14 vehicle if they didn't have to "deal" with 1-2 dreadnaughts and 1-2 squads of Termies.

with their maybe 1-2 units of long range options. (if CC then you get up to 2(3) tank hammers)


come on man....you are seriously argueing with this?

[carmachu]

Oh I dont know, maybe a monolith or two are side by side-ish and blocking you from getting to the squishy infantry that are sitting on an objective?

Speak not this phrase again, lest ye make me weep.

*shrug* Everyone knows you kill the necrons, but the reality is a smart player will make that extremely difficult. WHile adviseable to take as many necron models as you can, monothliths are tough sons of B's that a smart player will use to their advantage- tough to remove and a fairly big model that blocks.

So one does have to take them into account. Were I to do necrons in 2k form, 2 monoliths might be in order. Yeah its 1/4 of my points, but they come in handy....

[MagickalMemories]

and again why should orks who can already deal with non av14 get to insta kill arm 11 or 12 (transports)?

really man...using the term "Deal" when talking about what orcs can do in regards to av14 is like saying a prostitute could deal with AID's and a broken condom.


<SNIP>
come on man....you are seriously argueing with this?

To be fair, he said we... err... THEY... can deal with NON AV14.

Oh I dont know, maybe a monolith or two are side by side-ish and blocking you from getting to the squishy infantry that are sitting on an objective?

Speak not this phrase again, lest ye make me weep.

*shrug* Everyone knows you kill the necrons, but the reality is a smart player will make that extremely difficult. WHile adviseable to take as many necron models as you can, monothliths are tough sons of B's that a smart player will use to their advantage- tough to remove and a fairly big model that blocks.

So one does have to take them into account. Were I to do necrons in 2k form, 2 monoliths might be in order. Yeah its 1/4 of my points, but they come in handy....

I was actually in agreement. When you said... errr... what you said... I had the emboldened thought in mind.

Eric

[EZ mac]

@Bluemenie- have u played against a new and improved deff rolla?
What army do you play?

@mm- have u played with/against the new rolla?

@anyone else- have any of u played with/against it?



I have....it sucks big ones.

It will kill arm 12 78% of the time, kills arm 13 something like 62% of the time and will kill a arm 14 40% of the time.

If it a. Did not auto hit or b. Did not do d6 attacks then it would not be as stupid but guess what? It does and it is dumb.

Even a tau rail rifle doesn't kill a LR that easy, a melta/ multimelta doesn't do that, a vanquisher cannon? No.

Please someone tell me a model that KILLS a rhino, landraider or predator more often then this thing.

[Ironhide]

It's called developing new strategies and tactics to deal with the problem. The same list you used to use against Orks, now needs to be revamped to deal with this new tactic. It is that simple.

[EZ mac]

It's called developing new strategies and tactics to deal with the problem. The same list you used to use against Orks, now needs to be revamped to deal with this new tactic. It is that simple.

So have u played against it?



Yeah I'll take heavy weps on my deathguard....waaaait can't do that... I'll take a dred....oh wait arm 12.... I'll take more monstorus creatures....oh have 3 and they got ground up last time so....

Oh u mean build an entire new army to deal with a FAQ change? Yeah that sounds like a plan!


And again ironhide have YOU played against it?

[bluemeenie]

I play orcs...I have deff rollas and the people I play with rarely let me get that close.


I have gotten rams on a RL and Pen'd it but only got shakened and the machine spirit pretty much saved that.


I did it to a Ven dread a couple of times, once I killed it and another time I got D&G'd and lost the BW.


I usually have 1 BW and 3-4 trukks or more depending on the list...and most of my vehicles are gone by turn 3 even with a KFF agains a really good shooty army

[EZ mac]

I play orcs...I have deff rollas and the people I play with rarely let me get that close.


I have gotten rams on a RL and Pen'd it but only got shakened and the machine spirit pretty much saved that.


I did it to a Ven dread a couple of times, once I killed it and another time I got D&G'd and lost the BW.


I usually have 1 BW and 3-4 trukks or more depending on the list...and most of my vehicles are gone by turn 3 even with a KFF agains a really good shooty army

so are you planning on taking 3+ now that it is faq'd? How many games was that in anyway?

All I know is 5 killed 2daemon princes wings (MoN), 1x chaos LR, 4 rhinos and a couple dudes. Then the nobs came and the p marines died in the utter horror to power claws.

A "army fix" could not help this if u plan on playing in a tourament and u do not know the other armies. Yes if I played against only BW everygame then I would change the army but as the best anti tank in CSM is obliderators and they die turn 1 to guard then sad sad me if I take 9... Not to mention lootas...

True a guard alpha strike or a space marine speeder alpha strike army CAN deal with thus but do u honostly think a Grey knight, CSM, or crons list built for a turny CAN deal?

Look at the stykand(sp?) change. Gw wrote a FAQ, it was op and in a couple big tournies and then... Hit with the nurf bat.

This will most likely be the same.

[don_mondo]

EZ mac, surely you're not saying that GW would change an FAQ due to an uproar in the gaming community are you? I mean, it's not like this is the previous Nid codex FAQ or the most recent SW FAQ.........................

So yeah, it is possible that this will get changed. But until then, have to deal with it. SO my IG will take their 36-48 (depending on BS, twin-linking, etc) to statistically kill one AV 14 vehicle with a 4+ cover save (Cause you know they're going to have a field. Course, since my army only has 5 lascannons in it...........................