Attitude towards people reporting on BTR

[fitterpete]

Sorrow you miss the point maybe.As Stanislav said stuff does happen.Why should I take the chance of it happening and then some newbie files a premature BTR before I even get a chance to make it right?(There a few, let's say unyeilding ,established traders I would not trade with for exactly the same reason.) My point is we need a failsafe to keep that happening ie BTRs must be approved by staff before they can be posted.
This is a true story happened to me.
I got seperated.The computer was hers so when I moved in with my brother I had no computer and neither did he. Three days later I have to go out of town on business for a couple days.When I getback I have to work local for a few days.It was 6 days before I could have even gotten to a public computer.Thank god I didn't have any trades going on at the time but if I did and someone jumped the gun ...well you see.Now if staff were involved they would have tried my email, which I could have answered with my phone, or tried to get them to wait a few days.At least tried to keep a neg ref off my record till I could get back.
Any way just my opinion Pete

[fitterpete]

Seems my last post disappeared.Maybe I'll take the time to rewrite all 4 pargraphs over.

[Erik M]

Just have to (have to, have to, have to, have to [1,2,3,4... It's five to be considered OCD, right? Right? Right?] *opos*) jump in here with one thing about PMs order and BTR reporting.
To keep a document as legal as possible it's to be touched a minimum. No spell-check, no re-ordering, no nothing.
So I thought that you could at least separate the post(er)s by colour. Like blue for me and red for him., not even that is possible actually, as it's re-format of a kind.
There's also a few other things about cut'n'paste that degrade the legality of a PM.
To keep a BTR a trusty tool there should be a BTR-button where you get to explain your view etc and the PM is added straight from the database. And then in correct order (yes, in that case it's possible, as it's un-moderated).

On the same note, approximately, it would be nice to have a button for "there's a trade made from this conversation". A tool to make GTR happen.

Apart from all of this - thanks for the work the lot of you put into this! *hugz*

[MagickalMemories]

You may be right, Erik, in regards to legalities... the thing is, though, this is no courtroom.
We're not conducting trials, arresting offenders, etc. To a great degree, the legality of how you frame your BTR doesn't matter.

Copy/paste, changing text colors and chronological order are all perfectly acceptable changes to make to the information in a report here.

Eric

[Elayne]

Being an international user (I have a deal done, it needs just to arrive to another BT user, and then he can send me the money, and then feedback), albeit totally noobish, I must say:
- I always look at the BTR and Backouts forums (because I had my fair share of bad experience in other trades - not in BT, but does it matter ? -)
- if I had to report, one day, a BTR, I wouldn't jump on the gun some days later, nor I would post in RCO (thanks for explaining the acronym). A BTR, for me, is important, and the process of reviewing it is a royal PITA too for the mods, imho, so I'd post it as best as I could (in CO, for the very least).
- attitude ... well, I understand the OP, but I understand also what others say, about "learning", even the harsh way, how to trade better. So this thread was enlightening. Thanks.

[EVIL INC]

I have to say that the OP does have some valid points. If someone is making a btr or backout post, it is not because they are out to screw someone over. It is because
A. They have been screwed over themselves
B. Something has gone wrong and they are unable to communicate with the person they are dealing with
C. There is something more to the deal or they are unaware of technicalities that apply.
I have seen that many people will go into those forums as some form of entertainment where they get to take free shots at the person making the thread and will often times follow up with spam private messages filled with insults because they called out their buddy".
that is not to say disagreeing with the poster is bad so long as you do it in a manner that displays dignity and respect for your conman poster.
While it is true the person is innocent until proven guilty, The one making the post should get the same chance and not be assumed to be automatically guilty themselves. Especially by people who are not only not involved but who are not affiliated with management either. There is nothing wrong with making a comment or expressing an opinion but outright attacking is something else altogether but happens all too often.

3. Don't be a jerk. This is the same as the regular board rules. State your case, but don't resort to name calling.

4. Each and every BTR and Deadbeat/Backout thread is unique to a single party's complaint. If you too have been wronged by one of the people in the thread then you MUST post your own BTR or Deadbeat/Backout thread. Trying to attach your complaint to someone else's is yet another way to earn yourself disciplinary action.

5. If you are not one of the parties involved in the complaint, then don't post in the thread unless you have something relevant to add. If you ignore this and post something that is not relevant you will be subject to disciplinary action. If you are unsure of whether what you want to post is acceptable or not please PM a staff member FIRST. We can tell you if it's OK or not. Just posting and later claiming ignorance is not an acceptable defense and you will still be disciplined.
...
Examples of Irrelevant Info (Don’ts):

- peanut gallery opinions: “Looks like the guy's stringing you along. Just give him a negative reference!” or “That guy is a (insert colorful expletive here)!” or “$500 for a poorly painted Grot? What were you thinking?”
- me too: “He ripped me off, too!” (Note from Staff: Start your own BTR!) or “He ripped me off, too! Here's my proof... “ (Note from Staff: Still start your own BTR!)
- third party arguments:
“TraderX recommended UPS. UPS sucks!”
“Trader Y, you’re totally wrong. UPS is way better than FedEx!”
or
"Marking it as a gift isn't illegal.
-Is too.
Is not.
-Is too.
Well, okay. It's illegal, but they're not going to do anything if you get caught.
-They might.
Will not..."

If you have something relevant to add to the thread, but add something that's NOT relevant along with it, you will still be disciplined.

Example of Relevant Info with Irrelevant Info:

- "I have that guy's email address from a previous trade attempt. I'll PM it to you. And man, I feel for you, that guy was a total [insert colorful expletive] who tried to screw me over, too."

(The part in red is the irrelevant section. Name calling is not tolerated and if you want to add your bad trade experience you need to have a link to your own BTR in the comment.)

On the order of evidence providing. I have to disagree with the OP. Those sorts of evidence are hard enough to read as it is without having to search through it because it is out of order. Chrono order is the expected way of providing it and if you want help, you should respect the wishes of the ones helping you in terms of making their job easier for them. They have a great responsibility in keeping things running over the site and simply do not have the time to ferret out details in out of order date streams.

1. When posting a BTR or Backout claim you MUST post all communications involved in the deal. So all private messages and/or emails MUST be posted or your complaint will be deleted and you will be subject to disciplinary action. When copying all of the communications you must also include the PM and/or email headers (the part of the message with the sender's and recipient's name along with the date/time stamp.) You can include the postal addresses of the involved parties, but we ask that you edit out phone numbers. We take both of these forums very seriously and do not allow one trader to accuse another of foul play without fully documenting their case. Also, while not a requirement, PLEASE put all of your communications in chronological order. This means the oldest message at the top and the newest message at the bottom. It will make it easier for the staff to assist you if we can easily read the information you've posted.

[Ironhide]

@EVIL INC: The posts you are quoting are not official rules yet. In fact, they are still open for comments, and based on user comments and suggestions, they will probably change before finalized.

[EVIL INC]

My bad. Here is hoping that they do go into effect as they appear to be pretty common sense. Especially the ones on chrono order and irrelevant posts.

[MagickalMemories]

My bad. Here is hoping that they do go into effect as they appear to be pretty common sense. Especially the ones on chrono order and irrelevant posts.

Chronological order is merely a SUGGESTION.
It is not now and (as far as anyone can foresee) NEVER WILL BE a rule.

We only require that the proof be posted, not that it be pretty.

[EVIL INC]

True. Thats what I myself suggested.
I pointed out that it would be the polite thing to do to make the proof as easy as possible for the ones handling the case to understand. I myself said it was not absolutely necessary to make it understandable but that out of respect for the position of the ones handling it that it would be a good thing.
You gotta admit though that it IS easier to handle a case when you have all of the information and you can make it out. If for no other reason, it could make your case go faster. If it takes a week to decipher what the situation even is, it will take at least a week (extreme example alert ) longer then if the information is presented so that it can be understood at a glance.

[MagickalMemories]

You gotta admit though that it IS easier to handle a case when you have all of the information and you can make it out. If for no other reason, it could make your case go faster.

Have you read my signature line?

[EVIL INC]

LOL, It appears you are a person after my own heart.

[MagickalMemories]

I was aiming for your spleen.

[EVIL INC]

Ouch, the spleen. I know what the loss of that can do. My better half had to have hers removed. Not often you see people making fun of others for not having one so I almost missed the insult towards her.