bad trader chad aka luvzz2play

[Imaginos]

Okay, so if you go to a restaurant and order a meal, then the waiter brings it out and says "we are out of carrots for the salad" when he puts it on the table, but you notice that your steak doesn't have mushrooms like it should, then you are at fault? Because that is what is happening here.

There is an expectation of condition of minis in the trade. If there is a deviance from it, it is your job to report it to the other person, not their job to catch you. The person who tries to pass off a deformed mini, especially when it is couched into a message whether issues with other minis are described but one is left out, is no different from someone trying to pull a scam. You have an obligation to provide a description of what you are selling, especially if you know it is deformed.

[Ironhide]

Restaurant analogy is not a good one, since the person eating there doesn't pay for his meal until after he is finished; and all problems can be fixed on the spot.

That is your opinion Creeper, but not what actually happens. I, and I bet other traders, have received minis like this in the past. Out of this I learned to always ask for clarification and details about the minis I am trying to get. People are always going to try to slip one by you, you just got to be smarter. Caveat Emptor = Let the Buyer Beware!

There may be an expectation that the minis will be in good condition, but you are not at a store and cannot confirm this until after you received them. That is why it is imperative that you clarify about the condition, edition, authenticity, etc. of a model.

[Imaginos]

I know that what you are saying is how things work. What gets me is the assumption that the buyer is the one who messed up, and it seems like the other guy gets a free pass.

[Ironhide]

Oh, I'm not saying that. PBT is well within his rights to leave a negative ref; however, I think the BTR may have been a bit overboard.

[MagickalMemories]

Never assume minis are in mint condition. Always ask about the condition of the models you are trading. If you fail to ask, and the other trader doesn't say, then you get what you paid for. It's like buying a used car without looking under the hood or taking it for a test drive.

Except:

Rule 4a: You are also responsible for accurately describing all items in your ad.
That includes version, condition, assembly status, converted or not, painted or not, any missing pieces and any other information you think might be helpful. Failure to do so may result in the other party filing a Backout Trader or Bad Trader report against you.

You're still right that one should never assume anything about a trade. On the other hand, if they do, the rules support them if information was omitted.
More than any other rule (probably), this rule protects the less experienced traders.


Eric

[Paintbrushturkey]

Oh, I'm not saying that. PBT is well within his rights to leave a negative ref; however, I think the BTR may have been a bit overboard.

okay here is my reasoning for the negative reference:

eschelius described as in blister but no blister recieved - my thoughts on that are, that whilst it is not as described it is no biggie, i'd still have left a positive wo concern

the bogey was not described to me as having a flaw whilst sered was missing his hand, there was no mention of any flaw on the bogey, hence i assumed it was mint in blister or at the very least mint (which may have been an error on my part) - my thoughts here run something like this, whilst he has a big fat hole in this head and cards are missing this is truely annoying and, if he had specifically mentioned that the mini was mint he'd have gotten a neg ref there and then, seeing as he didn't i was minded to give a neutral at this point as the mistake clearly was made by both parties, me for n ot asking him for not telling.

HOWEVER, leaving me with the damaged item and playing dead is no way to behave, personally if i have a trade on any site i continue to frequent that sit until i have confirmation that the item was recieved, this means responding to pms within 48 hours less if at all possible, if people cannot handle this they should at leat keep the private message notification box checked, either way this behaviour is borth disrespectful and incredibly annoying to people, this may be seen as an unimportant point to some, however it is very important to me and just was was the drop that made the barrel overflow and got him the negative ref.
Prior to advice i this topic i didn't know that refs were permanent, i thought they could be edited if required.

[starslayer]

Not so. He is saying he has the mini. Not what condition the mini is in. You are assuming it is in good condition.

It has to be assumed that the mini is in decent, usable condition. That does not include missing limbs or a hole in the head.

So if you bought a Blood thirster from me, but it was missing an arm or had a big hole drilled in its head- you would be ok with that?

[Paintbrushturkey]

Not so. He is saying he has the mini. Not what condition the mini is in. You are assuming it is in good condition.

It has to be assumed that the mini is in decent, usable condition. That does not include missing limbs or a hole in the head.

So if you bought a Blood thirster from me, but it was missing an arm or had a big hole drilled in its head- you would be ok with that?

or in the case of confrontation missing cards are like missing pages of a book - bloody annoying-

@ ironhide: perhaps this little scenario lets you see what i mean: if i were to sell you a miniature and told you it was missing an arm, however it arrived at your place with both arms missing, would you be annoyed? if so i could say the same thing seeing as i said it was missing 1 arm rather than 1 arm only there was a possibility of it missing 2 arms whilst you may argue that this was lying it was not as i never said the second arm was missing - do you see where iam headed with this? As you see there are many ways around the truth without telling a lie..... let the linguists sort that one out :-9

[luvzz2play]

ya know... i few things here that i think are just wrong...making accusations without even giving a person a chance to reply or make things right... THEN... the bad trader thing? quite a bit drastic if you ask me....also...

1) assuming that i have had time to reply to said accusations without knowing all of the details... hell, this is the first time i have been on my computer in quite some time... real life does happen....
2) assuming that cards would be included when nothing was ever mentioned about wanting cards? hmmm.. the sale was for miniatures... nothing once was mentioned about them and so i included to the best i could, all of the cards... when a person has a complete or almost complete armies for acheron, dirz, mid nor, devourers, and griffin as well as having some ophidians and cynwall.... AND never have used or played with most of them, i DARE any one of you with minimal knowledge to get a complete set of cards sent for each and EVERY figure sent out...especially if no interest was ever expressed to begin with... lets talk assumptions... so since he never mentioned, i can assume he didnt want correct? you have made assumptions about the bogeyman.... correct? works both ways .... i did the best i could in the given situation...

3) if i was out to screw someone over... why would i even bother to giving a partial refund for shipping? does that sound like someone out to do a person dirty? when i found the shipping was considerably lower than what i told him, i IMMEDIATELY sent a message and gave a refund BEFORE i even heard from him.. does that show a pattern to 'SCREW SOMEONE OVER? ??? "...
4) i DO look things over to some degree and i would have assumed that IF the hole was there... and IF it was as big as what he said, i would have seen it myself, having handled the miniature and considered painting it so looked it over as well as some pictures online...albeit i do admit i never did get my magnifying lens out and look the model over like that... a hole in the head? i would have seen it... .FYI... i just got up and LOOKED at my miniatures.. and yea.. there IS hole in his head... its called an eye socket as the fig does not have an eye...my bogeyman has it too... sheesh...

my god man, give a guy a chance... holiday season is rjust now getting over and life is getting back to normal..... its busy time of year... i have been out of state... hours from home and my computer... sheesh... real life DOES happen.. work takes me out of town on a regular basis as well... crap like that really upsets me.... and to think i had replied to him first as his pm was the first i read... i REALLY do wish i would have read all of this first as this is wrong on so many different levels...

fed up right now...

[Ironhide]

By any chance can someone post a pic of this mini? Either from a camera or a pic on the net?

[The Grey Knight]

Link to figure and the cards. If I remember right, it is a one piece figure.
http://mgla.pl/index.php?p=14&&id_k=138&&id_p=1388

[Paintbrushturkey]

alrighty mate you had 7 days to reply to my pm, from my point of view that is plenty, i was fairly sure the i wasn't going to hear from you again, shows that everyone can go wrong just ...... just goes to show *edit* does happen

confrontation is both card and miniature based if iam asking for miniatures that includes both seeing as they are not as produced by rackham otherwise, however my issue is not with the cards but with the 1,5 mm hole in his face, yes it may be intended to look like an eye but it doesn't, i'm not sure where you have looked at the bogey..... okay, let's not go there..... but you must have missed it. as for eschelius i don't care if he is in the damn blister or not but you should have:
asked if you could remove him from the blister or told me you removed him from the blister. it is no biggie but a matter of principle, and was just mentioned here for the sake of completion. this is also not the thing that has earned you the neg.

i'd happily take your bet as to sorting out cards, i will hereby bet that i will be able to sort out 99% of cards that you give to me when they are a complete set, also there are a grat many sites out there offering pictures of card sets for rackham miniatures, just have a look.....

whether intentionally or not you didn't reply to my message or showed any sign of life... i'm fairly sure most people on here would appreciate a mail along the lines of i will be on holidays for the next month or so thanks for your patience......

back to the hole in the head, you must think i'm <not smart> or something if there was an empty eye socket then i would have said there is an empty eye socket not a DRILL HOLE, big difference as the drill hole is round whilst the eye socket is kindof foursidedish....

you want a chance to fix things up?, here's your lucky day send me the cards and a your bogey wo drill hole and i will send you th holey one and we will close this deal to the satisfaction fo both, as for shipping you cover yours i cover mine, i will ship the holey one once i recieve mine
and for the record here is a picture of him, and don't dare to tell me i put that there.....




need i show more?

[Ironhide]

Thanks Grey Knight.

@PBT: A picture is worth a thousand words. That is definitely a drill hole on the side of the head.

@ luvzz2play and PBT: You are both talking now (somewhat), so let's try to keep it civil and work something out please?

[Paintbrushturkey]

i am being civil read my formr post for resolution offer

[Ironhide]

Okay, Then let's not get sidetracked with "who can keep up with cards better", shall we? Not everyone is OCD when comes to keeping track of everything. Not saying that you are PBT, just saying.

So let's just stick to resolving this.