BTR adhesivespatula (#2): Kyle Stout- Resolved

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I have been hesitant to post this due to the fact that I am a very patient and reasonable person, but after repeated attempts to resolve it I feel that I need to share this.

We had agreed on a price of $85 for the following items that would be paid via Paypal:
Tomb Kings
1 Bone Giant - Well painted and custom modeled to appear as though emerging from sand
1 Casket of Souls - Very well painted and assembled
1 Tomb King (comes with custom chariot)- Well painted and assembled
2 Mounted Liche Priests
2 Liche Priests


I accidentally deleted the first couple of PM's, but you can see the progression from what Ido have:

Re: H: VC, Skaven, TK, HE, SM, Tyranids Want: VC, $$$
Sent: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:48 am
by adhesivespatula

Sounds fair to me, I should be able to ship out this week, pretty much as soon as payment is received.

adhesivespatula@gmail.com

is my paypal. Thanks!

Kyle

Re: H: VC, Skaven, TK, HE, SM, Tyranids Want: VC, $$$
Sent: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:29 am
by adhesivespatula

Hey Ron,

I went to send out your package today and I realized I don't have your shipping info. I think it was sent to me but B-Town deleted it. If you could send it again I am shipping today at noon. Sorry for the delay!

Kyle

Re: H: VC, Skaven, TK, HE, SM, Tyranids Want: VC, $$$
Sent: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:57 am
by Bubba Ho-Tep

Here ya go:

Ron Purvis
207 Beechwood Ave.
Frankfort, KY 40601

Re: H: VC, Skaven, TK, HE, SM, Tyranids Want: VC, $$$
Sent: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:10 pm
by Bubba Ho-Tep

Hey Kyle,
Did you get my stuff in the mail? Do you have a DC #?

Thanks,
Ron

Re: H: VC, Skaven, TK, HE, SM, Tyranids Want: VC, $$$
Sent: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:19 am
by Bubba Ho-Tep

Any word on my stuff?

Re: H: VC, Skaven, TK, HE, SM, Tyranids Want: VC, $$$
Sent: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:14 pm
by Bubba Ho-Tep

Kyle,
Please respond to my PM's. I have asked you twice already about my stuff and gotten no response. All I ask is that you follow through on our arrangement. I am not trying to be mean or anything, but I have made trades since our arrangement that have already been completed on both sides. It has been almost 2 weeks now, so please let me know something.

Thanks,
Ron

Re: H: VC, Skaven, TK, HE, SM, Tyranids Want: VC, $$$
Sent: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:13 pm
by Bubba Ho-Tep

Kyle,
I know you are reading your PM's and now posting new listings, so why is it you cannot reply to my PM's? I have no choice but to assume that you are not going to send my merchandise and file a complaint with Paypal. I will not resolve the issue until I have my merchandise. You have had more than ample time to comply, so the ball is now in your court.

Ron

At this point I filed a Paypal dispute. Here is what was written there:

11/9/2009 18:12 PST - Buyer: You have repeatedly refused to reply to any PM's that I have sent you through Bartertown, so this is my only recourse. I want my stuff that I paid for.

11/11/2009 07:16 PST - Seller: I have recently run into some serious family issues, mainly involving my grandmother. Without going into great detail, my time and attention have been wrapped in dealing with arrangements. I will send all models paid for, plus extras free of charge this week.

11/11/2009 08:18 PST - Buyer: I am very sorry to here that, I hope everything turns out well. I will leave a good trader ref for you when they get here & resolve the Paypal. Please remember to leave a good ref for me as well when you can.

11/11/2009 11:47 PST - Seller: I very much appreciate that, I will be sending these UPS on Thursday, I will leave a tracking number here for you.

11/14/2009 05:45 PST - Buyer: Did you get the package mailed? I have been reading a bad trader thread about you on Bartertown, but it looks like the trade is around the same time as mine, so I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here. Please don't abuse my understanding and patience. Let me know something. Ron

11/17/2009 06:11 PST - Buyer: Ok Kyle, It has been 6 days since you have responded and you were supposed to send it out on Thursday. It would have been here yesterday if you had. I am really starting to think that you A. don't have the stuff or B. are just scamming me for my money, either way I am really starting to lose my patience. I have not drug your name through the mud like others on the Bartertown forums and will not do so if you will send my stuff. I sincerely hope that all is well with your family and wish you no ill will, but enough is enough. If you do not respond I WILL escalate this claim. With the lack of communication from you here and on Bartertown I have no choice but to start getting aggresive. So man up and fulfill you commitments. Ron

He responded back on Bartertown:
Re: H: VC, Skaven, TK, HE, SM, Tyranids Want: VC, $$$
Sent: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:12 am
by Bubba Ho-Tep

You need to contact me about our Paypal dispute immediately!

Sent: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:21 am
by adhesivespatula

These have been shipped out a couple days ago, you should be getting them anytime now. I was just about to mail you actually, just got back into town. Let me know when they get there!

Kyle

Re: H: VC, Skaven, TK, HE, SM, Tyranids Want: VC, $$$
Sent: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:33 am
by Bubba Ho-Tep

Do you have a tracking number?

Re: H: VC, Skaven, TK, HE, SM, Tyranids Want: VC, $$$
Sent: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:38 am
by adhesivespatula

I do, but it is at home. When I get back from work tonight I can send it.

Re: H: VC, Skaven, TK, HE, SM, Tyranids Want: VC, $$$
Sent: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:43 am
by Bubba Ho-Tep

ok, I'll let you know if the package arrives today.

Re: H: VC, Skaven, TK, HE, SM, Tyranids Want: VC, $$$
Sent: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:44 pm
by Bubba Ho-Tep

And yet again no package. How did you ship it?

Back to Paypal:
11/18/2009 10:42 PST - Buyer: Kyle, Please send me the tracking number for my package, you had told me you would send it last night.

11/19/2009 10:10 PST - Buyer: Kyle, Your lack of response and the fact that I have yet to receive my stuff has left me no choice but to escalate this claim. You claimed to have shipped my stuff last week and unless you put it on a slow boat from China it would have been here by now, so I no longre believs a word you write. If by some odd reason the package ever does arrive I'll be sure to pay you, but unless you can provide a tracking number I will not believe you have shipped it.

11/19/2009 10:15 PST - PayPal: Buyer escalated this dispute to a Claim.
11/19/2009 10:15 PST - Buyer: I have yet to receive the merchandise promised me and he has failed to provide me with proof that he has shipped my merchandise. Repeated attempts to contact him have gotten no response beyond the initial ones. He claims that he is having family issues, but I am hesitant to believe him due to the fact that I know there are others having this same problem with him. You can read about it here: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=98802 So I would like to get my money back. If and when my merchandise arrives I will be sure to re-compensate him for it, but I feel that he is simply be dishonest with me. Thank you, Ron Purvis

I feel that I have been more than patient and was still hesitant to drag him through the mud, but after reading all the comments in the other thread, I felt I needed to post my own.

I will keep this thread updated with the events as they unfold further, but to be honest at this point I just want my money back so I can go buy the items online from a retailer.

[MagickalMemories]

First off, THANK YOU for the chronological order. : )

Unfortunately, you have failed to show any indication of an agreed upon sum.
I understand that the first PM's have been accidentally deleted, and that's fine... Can you please copy & paste the information from your PayPal payment confirmation, or a screen shot of your PayPal payment that shows the amount paid and to whom it was paid?
That will fill in the gap just fine.

Thanks.

Eric

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

No problem

Payment Sent (Unique Transaction ID #1W674782SL456594D)


Sent to:
Kyle Stout
Email:
adhesivespatula@gmail.com
Amount sent:
-$85.00 USD
Fee amount:
$0.00 USD
Net amount:
-$85.00 USD


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:
Oct 27, 2009
Time:
10:12:12 PDT
Status:
Completed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Subject:
You've got money!
Note:
For the following:
Tomb Kings
1 Bone Giant - Well painted and custom modeled to appear as though emerging from sand
1 Casket of Souls - Very well painted and assembled
1 Tomb King (comes with custom chariot)- Well painted and assembled
2 Mounted Liche Priests
2 Liche Priests
Thanks,
Ron
Shipping Address:
Ronald Purvis
207 Beechwood Ave.
Frankfort, KY 40601
United States

So even if Bartertown "accidentally" deleted the PM with my address, it is in the paypal payment transaction.

[MagickalMemories]

Right.

Also, and I didn't bother to mention this before, as I'm sure you knew better... but just in case someone who DOESN'T know better is reading this...

"Bartertown" does not randomly delete PM's from any of your PM boxes (inbox, sent messages, outbox, or any other box you create within your PM's). These only delete if you have >600 messages in your box and, even then, it deletes the OLDEST messages first.

Since switching to phpbb, there is only ONE instance of BTown doing something SIMILAR to deleting PM's. YEARS ago, our hosting service had a server melt down. They had not been creating the proper back ups, as they were supposed to, and BTown was rolled back 2 or 3 months. Post count, PM's, posts... all gone.

This has not happened since then.

Any "accidentally deleted" PMs were "accidentally deleted" by the recipient.


Eric

[Sleepingsamurai]

Yeah he did the same thing to me bubba at the same time! except with me he was out of town on buisness I've escalated mine to a claim as well!

[JohnHwangBT]

BTW, good job on escalating this to a claim.

[bluemeenie]

IF you have had dealings with Kyle and are missing money or mini's please PM me with the details, and contact information.

I need amounts taken in mini's/dollars
any other personal information on him that you can
and contact information for you.


If you have questions concerns please contact me or confirm with Porkslime and/or Magik as I have been in contact with them.

I will need as much as I can get by tomorrow in the morning before 10 am est.

Thanks and no questions will be answered in public on this.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Just an update, still no minis and he has yet to respond to Paypal for the claim I initiated, he has 2 days left in which to do so, after that I am hoping that Paypal can snag my money back for me.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Well, I got $1.06 back, I guess that was all that was in his Paypal. I am truly miffed about this, whoever had his address and phone number please PM it to me. I am also willing to go as far as need be to either get the models promised or get my money back.

[JohnHwangBT]

You didn't fund via credit card? If you did, work through them.

Even if it's a bank, I think you can force a chargeback.

Of course, if you funded out of PP balance, you're screwed, and your only recourse is small claims / police.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Yup, did it out my Paypal balance. Check this e-mail I got from him.

Ron –



Before I go into any great detail, let me first say that I apologize everything turned out this way. It was never my intention to have it come to this, but as I stated before, certain people and events are vastly more important than others, or in this case other models or you. I would like to make it abundantly clear that if such legal means were chosen to detract money from me, you would be quite the fool indeed – the only court willing to take on such a small claim would be, ta da, a small claims court. In such a lawyer is not required, so your friend would be making 0 dollars. On the other hand, if choosing the path of “fraud,” you would need more proof and a far more substantial sum to not be laughed out of a courtroom – please do not boast idle and miscellaneous threats, they ill become you.



In any case, threats aside, you gave this all but 12 hours to go through, and with Paypal there is a required few days to transfer money from the bank to it. This in turn is expanded upon due to the Thanksgiving Holiday. I have already authorized Paypal to reimburse you for the allotted amount and you should be seeing it shortly. I did actually send the models out, however a friend changed a single number in the zip code and now they reside in California. This is when I decided to let the Paypal system run its course and be done with it, however the holiday baking hours decided upon another time frame. In any case, you should have this in a few days and everything will be as right as rain.



Your dear friend,



Kyle

this dude has stones referring to me as dear friend. We'll see what he does.

[blackspade]

This guy just gets more and more rediculous.
He obviously doesn't understand that mail fraud is a Federal issue and not taken lightly by USPS.
His excuses are getting progressively more outlandish.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Tell me about it, I called Paypal on the phone today. They are aware of his history and are trying to get my money back.

[getupandgo]

Tell me about it, I called Paypal on the phone today. They are aware of his history and are trying to get my money back.

Paypal won't do anything unless more money is deposited into his account, which at this point, is pretty unlikely.

Follow up with legal channels.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I have filed a mail fraud complaint through the USPS website and am exploring other options as well. I sent him an e-mail letting him know that I filed the complaint hoping that it would make him pony up my cash and ask for the DC#, which I expect he did not use or will blame on his "friend" just like he did the wrong number in the zip code. I told him that I am willing to pursue this to the end, which I am. At 44 years old, I didn't just fall of the turnip truck. One of my gaming buddies is an attorney with our state government and now that the holidays are over i plan to get with him and see what the best course of action from here is. It's not so much the money as the principal of this, if he gets away with it once he'll do it again and he needs to understand that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated in any way, shape or form.

I will keep this thread updated on my progress.