Thought you had a deal? NOT

mardaddy · Post by **mardaddy** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:54 pm

Well, a trader here posted and ad Dec 22nd (Sat.)

I PMed same evening, stating if they were still availbable I'd buy em.

He PMed same evening - stating they were still available.

Dec 23rd he gave his paypal addy and said if payment cleared by Christmas, he would post the 26th.

I have a seperate bank account I use for PayPal, so needed to transfer funds from one account to that one to make payment. I PMed him such on the 23rd and said I could make payment the day after Christmas (with banks closed Monday and Christmas.)

Next PM I got: I can understand that however someone has made an offer and has sent the funds so I will be going with them.

Nice. No indication in the ad or any PMs that timeliness was a factor in his decisionmaking process, or that any other offers were in consideration. At least a "hey I cannot work with that," would have been upfront instead of, "oh, I already sold them now."

This is one of those not-a-bad-trader-but-just-rude situations. I was going to let it completely slide, but I needed to vent...

MEDEVL · Post by **MEDEVL** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:38 pm

I don't blame you for being mad. There are an increasing number of rude traders on here. There are still a LOT of great people too and I appreciate all of the hard work done by the Mods and Watchmen but I long for the days of Bartertown past. Things like that simply didn't happen. It was a completely different atmosphere back then. Not so cut-throat and impersonal as it seems today. Sorry about your bad deal. (I had a similar one last month where a guy posted some DKoK guys for sale. I know I was the first person to see that ad becasue of the post count and I sent a PM right away that took 10 seconds to write saying I'd take them. He sold them to somebody else. It's crap, but what can you do??)

starslayer · Post by **starslayer** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:49 pm

Its part of dealing on Btown. Sad but true.
Take a look at it from the other guys shoes. I've had plenty of people saying -"Yes,I'll buy it. I'll have/send the $$$ on(fill in blank)."
Then you never hear from them. Or finally, after you PM them 6 times, they answer-"Oh,I changed my mind or found a better deal". So are you just suppose to sit around & wait, & miss out on a bunch of other potential trades/buyers?? There is no good solution.
It happens.
Mardaddy-Put this jerk on your personal "DO NOT TRADE LIST".

Stanislav · Post by **Stanislav** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:50 pm

I feel your pain as well. Manners and etiquette have devolved over the past year or so. Still a lot of good and considerate traders out there, so I swallow the good with the bad. A day or two ago, I entered into a sale with a member. I did not say in my ad that timeliness was a factor or the fact that I hate e-checks. He sent one to me unknowing. I then got a PM from a member that has been on these boards for quite a while stating that if they were still pending, he would paypal me the cash right away (which at this point in the game would have been nice for Xmas). I pmd the new offer back and said that I was sorry, but obligated to accept the first offer with money whether it was an echeck or not.

Just the way it goes. However, I would also never send an echeck without the seller being aware of what I was going to do.

A little venting is good for everyone I suppose.

Rich

DarkSoul · Post by **DarkSoul** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:41 pm

I have people tell me all the time they want something... even to the point where i have the item boxed up and ready to ship.. then they say well i changed my mind...

I can think of three people off the top of my head that have done that more than once to me... I always inform potential buyers if i have others looking at the item and i also tell them its on a first come first serve bases... I no longer hold products for people... Its insane to do so.. I've missed several sales due to it...

Technically its a bad trade if someone agrees to the trade then backs out.. but i think thats a very sharp edge to try to force... but from the looks of it... He agreed to the sale by sending you his paypal address and saying that if it clears by Christmas he will send the 26th... to me thats OK.. you have the items... I may be wrong but to me thats a bad trade!

A Bartertown 'Trade' occurs when both parties have agreed to a transaction, be it a purchase (ie buyer-seller) or exhange of items and/or services, and have agreed to the terms of said transaction.
For example. Morlock and I agree to trade his Warmachine Cryx for my Warhammer Fantasy Chaos. We negotiate what we're trading specifically, we negotiate shipping terms, and we negotiate a time-frame for said shipping. Once we agree - and this can be as simple as "you're cool with that?" or as complex as sending a separate email that states the exact terms of everything agreed to along with a request to reply-with-agreement - the Trade is on.
If something unexpected happens, like a family emergency or unexpected deployment, it is the responsibility of the person in question to let the other party know what's happened within a reasonable time frame.

Remember, when it comes to trade negotiations ASSUME NOTHING.

BCI · Post by **BCI** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:05 am

mardaddy wrote:Well, a trader here posted and ad Dec 22nd (Sat.)

I PMed same evening, stating if they were still availbable I'd buy em.

He PMed same evening - stating they were still available.

Dec 23rd he gave his paypal addy and said if payment cleared by Christmas, he would post the 26th.

I have a seperate bank account I use for PayPal, so needed to transfer funds from one account to that one to make payment. I PMed him such on the 23rd and said I could make payment the day after Christmas (with banks closed Monday and Christmas.)

Next PM I got: I can understand that however someone has made an offer and has sent the funds so I will be going with them.

Nice. No indication in the ad or any PMs that timeliness was a factor in his decisionmaking process, or that any other offers were in consideration. At least a "hey I cannot work with that," would have been upfront instead of, "oh, I already sold them now."

This is one of those not-a-bad-trader-but-just-rude situations. I was going to let it completely slide, but I needed to vent...

If what you're writing is true and accurate, you're actually within your rights to leave a negative reference.

smilbuta · Post by **smilbuta** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:17 am

If what you're writing is true and accurate, you're actually within your rights to leave a negative reference.

No way... Just because a trader may have no ettiquete does not label the person a bad trader meriting a negative reference.

No items were given , none were received...its not trade..cant be elegible for a neagtive "TRADE" refrence.

smilbuta · Post by **smilbuta** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:17 am

If what you're writing is true and accurate, you're actually within your rights to leave a negative reference.

No way... Just because a trader may have no ettiquete does not label the person a bad trader meriting a negative reference.

No items were given , none were received...its not trade..cant be elegible for a neagtive "TRADE" refrence.

CypherIsGod · Post by **CypherIsGod** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:43 pm

smilbuta wrote: No way... Just because a trader may have no ettiquete does not label the person a bad trader meriting a negative reference.

No items were given , none were received...its not trade..cant be elegible for a neagtive "TRADE" refrence.

DarkSoul quoted the forum rules above. There does not have to be an item actually sent or received to be considered a Bartertown transaction. An agreement to trade the stuff is what creates the Bartertown transaction. So, backing out of an agreed upon trade before items are sent out by either side is still a broken Bartertown transaction. I keep saying Bartertown transaction because this is the place where the above rule applies. Obviously at a local store you can decide not to purchase something even after the purchase has happened. You can just bring it back. At a flea market, you can decide not to buy something just before the money is exchanged, and the seller may not be happy, but nothing illegal would have occurred. It is very rare that you could bring something back after the purchase at a flea market. If you go to buy a TV that "fell off a truck" and you decide not to buy after seeing the goods, you may get your ass kicked. Different places have different rules for what a transaction is.

In this case, it could be argued that since the seller said he would post on the 26th if the payment cleared by Christmas, that agreement was not met. That would depend on the wording of the part where they came to a deal for the items. I probably would not leave a bad reference as the seller was probably trying to get some cash before Christmas to buy something, which I can understand, but that is just my opinion. The rules are the rules, and in this case negative feedback may be an option.

I found a thread here that deals with the subject and has LOTS of posts from Linrandir about the rules and backing out of deals.
viewtopic.php?t=36447&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Happy New Year everyone!

mardaddy · Post by **mardaddy** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:32 pm

Believe all I may do further is just forward a link to this thread to the guy in a PM, so he can see the opinions of others on his actions.

What I posted as our communications is as word-forword as I can be without posting the whole PM.

Part of it is I missed out on something that was a great deal due to one of two things: Lack of communication/not being upfront with his expectations, or he got a better offer later after his commit to me and jumped it.

Because I do not know which is the case, I cannot determine if a negative is warranted or influenced by my own case of, "sour grapes." Either way - I feel there SHOULD be some kind of rekoning or consequence.

So...... though I am not willing to post his username out here in public, as there are no rules against being, "rude," I will respond to any PMs inquiring who the guy is, if any are curious.

CypherIsGod · Post by **CypherIsGod** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:50 pm

Just be sure not to threaten him with a negative feedback. If you are going to leave him one, do it. If you send him the link to this thread, and then leave him negative feedback, then you are risking getting hit with an ITL intimidation. There was a thread about this not too long ago. If you are just sending him a friendly PM telling him to watch out for his behavior in the future, and to check out your post for details, fair enough. Good luck.

- Craig

BCI · Post by **BCI** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:35 pm

CypherIsGod wrote:
smilbuta wrote: No way... Just because a trader may have no ettiquete does not label the person a bad trader meriting a negative reference.

No items were given , none were received...its not trade..cant be elegible for a neagtive "TRADE" refrence.
DarkSoul quoted the forum rules above.

They weren't responding to DarkSoul's statement.

They were referring to mine.

CypherIsGod wrote:Just be sure not to threaten him with a negative feedback. If you are going to leave him one, do it. If you send him the link to this thread, and then leave him negative feedback, then you are risking getting hit with an ITL intimidation. There was a thread about this not too long ago. If you are just sending him a friendly PM telling him to watch out for his behavior in the future, and to check out your post for details, fair enough. Good luck.

- Craig

It's simpler to give an example.

"If you don't send these materials I am leaving you negative feedback."
"If you don't give me positive I'm giving you negative!"
and
"I will kill your dog!"

Are all forms of ITL intimidation, the later being code for causing the person heartache in the form of a negative reference, while literally meaning you will kill their dog which is threatening violence and another issue altogether.

Telling them "I will leave negative feedback for this because you are refusing to fulfill your end of our agreement. Bartertown rules justify this."

In that format, with no statements or implications that sending will prevent the feedback, is not itl intimidation..

smilbuta wrote:
If what you're writing is true and accurate, you're actually within your rights to leave a negative reference.
No way... Just because a trader may have no ettiquete does not label the person a bad trader meriting a negative reference.

No items were given , none were received...its not trade..cant be elegible for a neagtive "TRADE" refrence.

And "yes way", people who negotiate trades and come to agreements are bound under bartertown regulations to either fulfill them OR face penalty.

viewtopic.php?t=71

A BTR is grounds for negative ITL, and anyone who makes a Bartertown trade and then refuses to fulfill their end, qualifies for a BTR.

In pre-forum times, these people were just run off the site as scammers. When they'd return, they were run off again. Very simple and effective.

By the way smilbuta, are you the person who flaked out?

mardaddy · Post by **mardaddy** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:57 am

ANY MOD - PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD.

I have linked it to the Btown guy, and he has handled the situation in a mature manner with a full-on mea culpa and heartfelt apology for not being more communicative about timelines an terms.

I believe it says volumes about his character that he can do some self-review instead of just beng offended that this discussion is even going on. He even made it a point to say I can do what I feel I have to, "...it is a lesson I have to learn."

I really do not see this thread serving any more purpose than to beat a dead horse.

BCI · Post by **BCI** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:51 am

mardaddy wrote:ANY MOD - PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD.

I have linked it to the Btown guy, and he has handled the situation in a mature manner with a full-on mea culpa and heartfelt apology for not being more communicative about timelines an terms.

I believe it says volumes about his character that he can do some self-review instead of just beng offended that this discussion is even going on. He even made it a point to say I can do what I feel I have to, "...it is a lesson I have to learn."

I really do not see this thread serving any more purpose than to beat a dead horse.

It's all about Mr. Edd.

What will speak volumes is whether or not this event occurs again.

smilbuta · Post by **smilbuta** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:33 am

BCI wrote:By the way smilbuta, are you the person who flaked out?

BAD form BCI, Hell no it was not me, and the OP resolved the issue with the offender....
I might even ask for an appology for asking such a question when all we have here is our trade rep to speak for us..

Bad form.

Bartertown.com

Thought you had a deal? NOT

Thought you had a deal? NOT

Re: Thought you had a deal? NOT

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