Is it really the end of Warhammer Fantasy?

[pretre]

The only way to get that 13 is to use Kairos and the Screaming Bell together. You can use any models from your collection in any combination you wish, so that's perfectly legal.

Kairos, Oracle of Eternity states, "Once per game, you can change the result of a single dice roll to the result of your choosing." 13 is listed as a result on the Screaming Bell chart, so you roll your two dice, then change it to 13. Game over.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it's legit. You can't roll 13 on 2d6. Under your interpretation, I can roll a billion on a d6 with Kairos. Could be useful for a D3 Mortal Wound spell. How many mortal wounds do I do to your unit? A billion.

[spiralingcadaver]

Okay, so, I don't get this. No one in my circle can figure this out either, so, for those who actually like the look of the new rules... How does having zero composition rules allow for an interesting experience?

Like... IDK, it feels like without a meter of what's considered balanced or fair, the factor for douchebaggery (on the negative extreme) or extended list discussion (on the more reasonable side) seems extreme. Even in relatively tight games, people say "I won't use X warcaster in a casual game" or "y combo is just not a fun experience' or "we decide no superheavies in in games below z points"

But, well, with no size or composition requirements, how does one work with being able to literally take anything you have? It seems like every army composition option suddenly becomes a potential question of fairness.

[pretre]

You put down what you want one unit at a time; your opponent does the same.

You are free to stop at any time. There are bonuses for stopping before your opponent.

That's the short of it.

[kturock]

The tournaments have been failing. There are more 40k tournaments for a reason; more players and more people wanting to play.

Fantasy has been failing in sales and support.

Also, did you see the new announcement saying there a free app coming for iOS and android to help make lists? Another freebie from GW..
That's:
1 set of free rules.
16 free army books for ALL existing models. [even models that haven't been made in over 10 years.ie. Dwarven Goblin Hewer]
a free app coming for building lists.

[NuWishA]

I don't know why you are calling them army books. They really aren't. They are just long pamphlets.

And I'm guessing the app will be an interactive catalog that lets you make a wish list of stuff you want, but calls it an army.

I'm hoping there is a handy button at the end of my army list that says "Add to Cart"

I'm aware that they are going a new direction, and that things will get better.. but they are going about quarter ass right now, not even half ass.

[kturock]

I don't know why you are calling them army books. They really aren't. They are just long pamphlets.

And I'm guessing the app will be an interactive catalog that lets you make a wish list of stuff you want, but calls it an army.

I'm hoping there is a handy button at the end of my army list that says "Add to Cart"

I'm aware that they are going a new direction, and that things will get better.. but they are going about quarter ass right now, not even half ass.

As opposed to how it's usually done, like 40k, where armies haven't gotten a new codex or got one that's not for the newest rules.

What do you find as lacking; besides the standard, "Points, since I don't know how to make army lists" answer?

[spiralingcadaver]

What do you find as lacking; besides the standard, "Points, since I don't know how to make army lists" answer?

IDK, a general sense of perspective, what with the similar lack of composition rules in general (early or no), and the unintentionally sexist bits?

I'm fine with the super-minimal/light approach, and not really offended by the stupid "this is how you're supposed to have fun!" rules, but the above two piss me off.

[reegsk]

I haven't caught unintentional sexism, but please enlighten me. No sarcasm intended, BTW, I'm genuinely interested.

And that's my main issue, too - it's so half-assed. They've supposedly been play-testing for a long time now. They have these magical army lists coming. They have this magical balancing system coming. But all they've given us in the meantime is a four page PDF of rules, and entire army books boiled down into fluff- and picture-less PDFs. Things change, I get that. But to completely destroy everything that has been in existence for over thirty years and replace it with a single starter set is. . .irresponsible.

The models, too. I won't say they're bad models. In fact, they're very well-sculpted and have a lot of great but probably easy to pick out detail, which is perfect for a starter set. I just don't know how I feel about Fantasy space marines. And given that aesthetic shift, it has me very concerned as to what my Dwarfs will look like, given the "Steamhead" moniker. If I wanted to play steampunk dwarves, I'd play Warmachine.

[reegsk]

I will say that the biggest qualm I have with the rules (outside of balance factor) is the movement. Now you have random bonus movement (running) and random charge ranges. In other words, you have 40k. . .again. There are no flanks, no charge lanes, no maneuvering of any kind. It's all about running forward as fast as possible and getting into combat. While it will certainly speed the game up, I feel that it is a huge blow to what was arguably the most important and most tactical aspect of the game. And I've never been a fan of random charge ranges, even in 8th edition. Add in random bonus movement instead of Marching, and I'm doubly not a fan.

[kturock]

Understand this:
Us old players weren't supporting the game. We weren't spending enough money on keeping it selling.
So, that means they had to add more players. The biggest proposed players base is 40k. 40k players have stated why they didn't like fantasy.
GW changed it to make them happy, to bring in new players; as well as eliminating all the things players complain about when a new edition comes out.


The time to rally around 8th edition is done. We've missed the boat. The game was losing money. We weren't bringing new players. We weren't spending enough.

We have no one to blame but ourselves for the change.

Speaking of which, the change hasn't actually happened until Saturday.

So either play 8th ed where you played before, sell off all your models [LMK what you have], use them in something else, or download the free rules and try them.

[kturock]

Check out this editorial.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/07/ ... igmar.html

[spiralingcadaver]

I haven't caught unintentional sexism

In their mess of silly rules, which I don't like but have no great complaints over, they managed to stick in two (one empire, one dwarf), that were about facial hair. The buff is minor and the rule is silly, but, at the end of the day, there's no reason these rules should exist, since they don't really add anything to the game but do off-handedly alienate women.

Anecdotal of course, but my wife and my sister in law are both casual gamers, and I mentioned one of these to each separately while referring to some of the sillier changes and the reaction was clear- two iterations of "haha, that's pretty... wait, I'm not allowed to get that bonus, that's uncool." Which is how long it should have taken GW's designers to recognize it was a bad idea, except they've lost their connection with reality.

[reegsk]

Kt, so you're saying since I didn't spend tens of thousands of dollars, I just have to shut my mouth and absolutely love everything about the new game?

[reegsk]

Also, this:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/07/ ... right.html

I get the Slaanesh not being kid friendly thing, but I'm more upset by the line after it. As if the Dwarfs didn't suck it up enough by losing every special character, now we lose the most badass of our gods.

[pretre]

Anecdotal of course, but my wife and my sister in law are both casual gamers, and I mentioned one of these to each separately while referring to some of the sillier changes and the reaction was clear- two iterations of "haha, that's pretty... wait, I'm not allowed to get that bonus, that's uncool." Which is how long it should have taken GW's designers to recognize it was a bad idea, except they've lost their connection with reality.

Neither are the young, active military or a bunch of other people. It's just a silly rule. IF someone really wants it, they can make a paper mustache and pick it up when rolling for their silly character. Or your group can decide that they don't need it.

I mean, did you notice how Ableist it was that Settra's rule has no downside for people without legs? After all, they can't kneel...

Jaisus.