BTR confusion.elemental

These BTR's have not yet been resolved. Be wary of anyone listed here.

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Royals ( 76 )
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BTR confusion.elemental

Post by Royals » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:37 pm

I hope this meets all of the criteria for a BTR.

As of today, I have not received enough pieces to build the models I traded for.
Sent: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:07 pm
by confusion.elemental
I have a good bit of Deathwing bits, enough to build 5 however you like. I also have 2 sets of DV terminators unassembled, giving you several choices for loadouts. I also have at least 1 box of Black Knights bits left over for conversions.

Mostly I'm interested in the SW half of your stormclaw box (in case you have an offer for the ork half). After that the attack bike, taurox, and then the leman russ.

Subject: H: Stormclaw, IG/AM, SM Attack Bike, Baneblade W: SM/DA $$

Royals wrote:Haves:

Stormclaw Boxed Set - $180

Ravenwing Attack Bike - bare plastic, assembled with Multimelta

Baneblade - bare plastic, assembled

Leman Russ Punisher - bare plastic, assembled with Hull Heavy Bolter and Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Taurox - Primed with a drybrush of XV-88, Assembled with Autocannon, no steps

Catachan Command Squad - one assembled model with bolter, the rest are new on sprue

Catachan Heavy Weapons Team - New on Sprue, missing Lascannon


Wants:

$$$ - As always, cash is king

Space Marine Vehicles - New on Sprue
I am looking for most any Space Marine/Dark Angels vehicle. Predators and Vindicators are my main priority. I am also looking for SM/DA Flyers. If it's an unassembled Space Marine/DA vehicle, odds are I am interested.

Ravenwing Black Knights - New on Sprue

Deathwing Command Squad/Deathwing Knights - New on Sprue

PM me with offers. I am very reasonable and will entertain most offers!
Sent: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:40 pm
by Royals
I got your message but I'll gave to get back with you tomorrow. I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring you.

James
Sent: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:11 am
by Royals
Hey again. Thanks for your reply.

I'll have to hold off on the Space Wolves portion of Stormclaw right not. The Punisher is also spoken for. However, the Taurox and Attack Bike are still up for grabs. I'm interested in the Deathwing Knights and the Black Knights. I'm swimming in DV Terminators. I few pals from my FLGS tossed theirs my way.

Are there enough bits to create complete Deathwing Knights and Black Knights?
Sent: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:01 pm
by confusion.elemental
I have enough bits to make 5 DW knights or a command squad. I only have leftover black knights bits (heads, a few chest plates, weapons, symbols, command bits, a robed biker. Pieces to convert regular bikers to black knights. I also have the LE chaplain from the DV set and codex as well.
Sent: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:04 pm
by Royals
How would you feel about the Attack Bike and Taurox in exchange for the Deathwing Knights?

Also, in full disclosure on the Taurox, I couldn't get the steps on the ladders to stay on so I trimmed them down. I can send you pictures if you like.
Sent: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:56 pm
by confusion.elemental
Sounds like a deal to me. Don't worry about the taurox though, it's most lilely going to end up as the base of an Orks AT AT walker/ stomps for my star wars themed ork army.

My address is
Chris Dicks
4954 Nixon ct
Hudsonville, Mi 49426
Sent: Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:34 pm
by Royals
Sounds good. Also, do you have bases or do I need to pick some up?

My address is

James King
381 W Hubbard Ave
Columbus, OH 43215

I just picked up a box from GW to ship it in so I will send it out on Monday from my office mail center.
Sent: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:12 pm
by confusion.elemental
I don't have any bases.
Sent: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:16 pm
by Royals
No big deal. I can scrounge some up. I have a Land Raider Crusader that desperately needs some Deathwing Knights. If you're feeling generous and have any Black Knight bits that might be good to make a Chaplain on a Bike and want to include I wouldn't be opposed to that ;)

I made a White Scar Biker Chaplain for a friend using a Chaos Space Marine skull head and it turned out pretty awesome.
Sent: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:31 am
by Royals
Hey!

I just got to work and realized I left your package on my dining table. I'll be sure to get that out first thing tomorrow.

Sorry about the delay.

James
Sent: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:29 am
by Royals
I sent the package out moments ago!

Your tracking # is izw068r90396386836

Thanks!
James
Sent: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:38 am
by Royals
Hey there! I'm just checking in to see if you've sent those models.

Thanks!
James
Sent: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:45 am
by confusion.elemental
The package went out Monday, I ment to grab the tracking number last night to give you. But I was a dork and left the house without it. I can see if the can send me a pic when she wakes up.
Sent: Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:06 pm
by Royals
Great! Thanks!
Sent: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:39 pm
by Royals
Hey. I got the envelope in the mail today and there were a few things missing.

2x Hooded Heads
4x Right Mace Arms
5x Left Shoulder Pads
4x Right Matching Shoulder Pads
Flail of the Unforgiven was broken.

I can't really make Deathwing Knights without buying additional bits. Let me know how you want to proceed.
Sent: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:44 pm
by confusion.elemental
The flail comes in two parts, so unless its more than that its not broken. The right shoulder pads (w/ DA icons are not supposed to be the same), I will recheck my bits when I get home for the terminator pads, heads, and mace arms.
Sent: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:51 pm
by Royals
Yeah, the ring part and skull are broken on the flail. I think you're right about those right shoulder pads.

James
Sent: Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:22 am
by Royals
I looked at my Deathwing Knights box, it looks like I'm missing 5 of the Crux Terminatus left shoulder pads and 4 of the right shoulder pads that match the shield. On the Flail of the Unforgiven, it looks like the skull part has been snipped off.

James
Sent: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:50 pm
by confusion.elemental
I don't know what to say about the flail. It wasn't used as a partial conversion so I don't know why it would be missing. Is it possible it broke off in the bag?

It seems I don't have Amy crux terminus shoulder pads, so I can either buy some off eBay and send them, or send you a few bucks on PayPal to buy them yourself. As for the chapter shoulder pads, I've got a few more at home (not sure which ones or how many) but I can send you the few I have left.
Sent: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:59 pm
by Royals
I can scour eBay and find the cheapest replacement bits and send you a link if you want.

Sent: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:08 pm
by confusion.elemental
Already watching a couple.
Sent: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:21 pm
by confusion.elemental
Just a heads up, won an auction for a full set of shoulder pads, as soon as I get them in I will send them to you. I tried to get the guy to mail straight to you. But he said he only mails to the address attached to the account.
Sent: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:25 pm
by Royals
Cool. Keep me in the loop!
Hey there,

Just checking in to see if there is any update on the rest of the bits.

James
by confusion.elemental
Got them in sometime last week, but I wasn't home till Friday. The wife has been tasked with getting them out to you. So if not today, then definitely tomorrow as I am back on the road
Sent: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:27 pm
by Royals
I got the shoulder pads in the mail. The only things missing are the heads, the mace arms, and the flail.

Thanks,
James
Sent: Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:45 pm
by confusion.elemental
OK, before it was just the shoulder pads. At most your missing 2 hooded heads, you had some extra armswith hands, that you could clip the hands off of, for the mace arms. As for the broken flail, I cant help that. I didn't fuss when the attack bike came broken, I just fixed it and went on.
Sent: Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:01 pm
by Royals
I mentioned before those other parts were missing. The flail has marks on the ring that looks like the skull part was clipped off. I was supposed to receive five Deathwing Knights. You sent me some Deathwing Knight parts, some Dark Vengeance arms, and mismatched bits. I feel it's reasonable to want to be able to make the Knights without having to convert them.
Sent: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:32 pm
by confusion.elemental
you might want to scroll back down through the conversation history to my original post to you. I tell you what I will make it easy and quote the very first ting I said.

I have a good bit of Deathwing bits, enough to build 5 however you like



I never said I had 5 complete knights, I said I had enough bits to make 5 terminiators. That is exactly what you got, now I granted you that some bits (the crux pads) were missing, but you have received enough bits to make 5 knights. I don't know why or how the flail came about to be missing the skull bit, it was intact when I mailed it off. I have even gone as far as ordering you some bits to replace the shoulder pads. You got exactly what I said I had DW bits.
Sent: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:39 am
by Royals
I have enough bits to make 5 DW knights or a command squad. I only have leftover black knights bits (heads, a few chest plates, weapons, symbols, command bits, a robed biker. Pieces to convert regular bikers to black knights. I also have the LE chaplain from the DV set and codex as well.
I think it's pretty clear that the trade was for Deathwing Knights. I've been nothing but up front about what models I was looking for. From the bits you sent, I can't make a Deathwing Command Squad nor Deathwing Knights.

Let's work to get this trade completed as intended.

James
Sent: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:19 am
by confusion.elemental
Read the 5th word, I clearly said bits. Yes I have the bits to make a command squad, but you said you wanted to make knights, so I sent you the bits for that. You have everything you need to make 5 deathwing knights. You didn't want any command squad bits so I didn't send them.

I said I had bits and you got bits.
Sent: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:25 am
by Royals
The thing is, you didn't send me enough bits to make Deathwing Knights or a Deathwing Command Squad. Why are you trying to mince words? I've been very patient and very understanding, but trying to argue like this isn't helping matters.

There are two routes we can take to rectify this. You can send me the remaining bits or send funds so that I can acquire some on my own.

James
Sent: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:09 pm
by confusion.elemental
What bits are you missing that are preventing you from creating 5 knights?
Sent: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:13 pm
by Royals
Just the two hooded heads and the four right arms. I can work something out about the Flail.
Sent: Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:29 pm
by Royals
Hello,

I was wondering if you've had time to think about the missing parts for the Deathwing Knights?

Let me know.

Thanks,
James
Sent: Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:12 pm
by confusion.elemental
i have 5 right terminator arms w/o hands and only 1 hooded head.
Sent: Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:31 am
by Royals
Hey, I am checking in to see if you've had the opportunity to get a hold of those bits.

James
Sent: Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:26 am
by confusion.elemental
Was waiting to hear back from you. I didn't want to just keep sending packages, in the hopes we can finally wrap this up. As I said in my last message, I found 1 hooded head and 5 handless right terminator arms. Is this acceptable?
Sent: Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:28 am
by Royals
That should work.
Sent: Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:35 am
by confusion.elemental
I'll get it out when I get home tomorrow
Sent: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:02 am
by Royals
Hey,

I still haven't received those bits. Did you have a tracking number?
Sent: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:30 am
by confusion.elemental
The wife should have it. I'll give her a call when she gets up and get it.
Sent: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:10 am
by confusion.elemental
I talked to the wife, she cannot find a tracking number nor does she recall mailing it out. Which puts me in abit of a perdiciment. We just bought a house and moved in last weekend, so there is still alot packed up. The wife has been unpacking all week, but I have no idea if your bits have gotten unpacked yet or not.

I get home this afternoon, and I will do my best to find it and get it out.
Sent: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:04 am
by Royals
Hey man,

It's been over two weeks since your last email and I still haven't received anything. This trade has been in the making going on four months. I've been exceedingly patient. You have to do something to make this right.

James

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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by confusion.elemental » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:00 pm

I see you left out the messages where I offered to you options, including to return my bits and you said that's not going to work for you. In fact you've left out several messages. Almost as if you're intentionally trying to present misleading information.
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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by Royals » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:10 pm

I posted this prior to those messages. I have not had time to update this thread as it's difficult to do on a phone. I have nothing to hide.

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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by Royals » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:34 pm

As to what your options were, I do not want my half of the trade sent back to me. I am asking for the missing pieces or sufficient funds to procure replacements.

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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by MagickalMemories » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:38 am

Okay. We're not going to have an internet shouting match in a BTR thread.
If you have something to add in your defense, c.e, please post it... like the messages you're referring to. It is perfectly acceptable, though, that he has not updated the thread with that conversation yet, if it sheds no new light on the subject.

Going through the thread, here are the things I see:
I also have at least 1 box of Black Knights bits left over for conversions.
This is both, misleading and clear. It might be that it's only clear due to hindsight, though.
"1 box of black knight bits left over for conversion." How does one define "one box?" You know what I mean? You're not really clear on what you are offering here.
That said, "left over for conversions" SHOULD have been enough to raise a flag and inspire a question for clarity.
I'm interested in the Deathwing Knights and the Black Knights.
This should make it clear that Royals did not understand c.e. He said "Black Knights" and no mention of "bits."
Are there enough bits to create complete Deathwing Knights and Black Knights?
Here is your question for clarity. He is specifically asking if your bits will make complete models.
I have enough bits to make 5 DW knights or a command squad.
This statement indicates that your (c.e) bits will make complete models. You have a decent reputation, and I believe you didn't INTENTIONALLY mislead him... but your statement is not clear here.
I only have leftover black knights bits (heads, a few chest plates, weapons, symbols, command bits, a robed biker. Pieces to convert regular bikers to black knights.
In hindsight this clarifies things a bit but, in the moment, I might have believed you were discussing something else DIFFERENT than the models in the previous quote. I would have probably thought you were referring to bits for bikers.
How would you feel about the Attack Bike and Taurox in exchange for the Deathwing Knights?
Two reasons that this should have thrown up red flags to you, c.e.
First off, he says "Black Knights" with no mention of bits (again). Secondly... there's no way IN HELL that's a fair trade. Not for just bits.
Hey there! I'm just checking in to see if you've sent those models.
Again, "models" and not "bits."
You didn't want any command squad bits so I didn't send them.
He never said he didn't want the command squad bits. You initially offered them. Although he focused on the Knight portion and not command squad portion, you still should have sent them as you never said you weren't.
Also, in hindsight, as he was expecting a complete box, he could not reasonably be expected to mention that he wants those bits. He's already expecting a complete box.
I found 1 hooded head and 5 handless right terminator arms.
This is what you both agreed upon to settle the issue. My opinion is that you should find a way to provide those bits or offer financial recompense in the amount (including shipping) it will cost to replace them. No prorating, either. If those bits are only available as parts of larger lots (as eBay sellers will often bundle bits in ONLY certain configurations), then you should pay for the full lot.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by confusion.elemental » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:36 am

I didn't intend on getting in a shouting match, which is why I made my post and stopped. I will provide the additional messages after I get home Wednesday evening, trying to post quotes on a phone is difficult.

The synopsis is, I offered him the chance to send back my stuff, or $5 for the 2 missing heads. As I explained in a previous message I have just moved and I cannot find the envelope with his bits. I was willing to send extra arms, because I have plenty of terminator arms, but he's already received arms, he just didn't want to snip some hands off, I'm not paying for that.

He refused my offers, despite the returning being his initial idea. As for being more clear, I don't know how many times I could have said bits, there gets to a point where Royals has to take responsibility for his misunderstanding. I said bits several times, I never said 'NoS' 'nib' 'bare plastic' 'painted' or 'primed'. He never asked for their condition, suggesting he understood they were bits. He got a product as advertised. I had no intention of misleading him, as trying to mislead someone in a trade is pointless, they are going to get the stuff and then be upset, which only leads to headaches and bad refrences.
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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by Royals » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:03 pm

Rule 4a: You are also responsible for accurately describing all items that you are trading or selling.
That includes version, condition, assembly status, converted or not, painted or not, any missing pieces and any other information you think might be helpful. Failure to do so may result in the other party filing a Backout Trader or Bad Trader report against you.
This is straight from the Bartertown Rules Thread. I feel it is worth mentioning. viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470

Heads - $4.99 + $3.00 Shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KNIGHT-HEADS-bi ... 51c4b2e601

Arms - $3.45 + $3.25 Shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/40K-Dark-Angels ... 2c8f61c249

Flail of the Unforgiven - $1.75 + $3.25 Shipping, can be shipped for free if combined with the auction for the arms.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/40K-Dark-Angels ... 2c773166ff


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Sent: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:36 pm
by confusion.elemental
I still can't find your envelope. What can make this right?
Sent: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:52 pm
by Royals
To get everything I am missing will cost around $15 to have shipped to me. If you'll send that as money owed through paypal we'll call this concluded.
Sent: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:25 pm
by confusion.elemental
Tell you what, send me back my bits and I'll return your items.
Sent: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:44 pm
by Royals
Sorry, man. That's not going to work for me.
Sent: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:16 pm
by confusion.elemental
That's not going to work for you? Well $15 for 2 heads is not going to work for me.
Re: H: Stormclaw, IG/AM, SM Attack Bike, Baneblade W: SM/DA
Sent: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:21 pm
by Royals
It's more than just heads. It's the arms, heads, and flail.
Sent: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:34 pm
by confusion.elemental
You got arms, but you didn't like the fact that you had to clip the hands off. You also got the flail, I can't help that it broke in transit, that happens. I didn't fuss when the attack bike showed up in 4 pieces. The only thing you are missing is 2 hooded heads, I'd be happy to send you $5 via PayPal, otherwise you can return the bits since you seem to feel you did not get what you were expecting.
Sent: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:58 pm
From: confusion.elemental(74)
To: Royals
I promised you bits and that's what you got. If the flail was clipped it was not done by me. As I said, if you don't like what you got then send the bits back.

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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by Royals » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:41 pm

I accidentally left this response out.
Sent: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:55 pm
by Royals
I don't understand why you're bringing all that up again. I was supposed to be able to build Deathwing Knights, not convert them. The Flail bit was not broken in transit. It had been clipped and a piece was missing. It has the tell tale marks of clippers. You sent me a rag tag bunch of Dark Vengeance and Terminator bits. Even if I did clip the arms, which I won't do, I wouldn't be able to make 5 Deathwing Knights. That is what the trade was for. I either want the missing bits or the funds so I can purchase them. At this point, I'll leave it in the hands of the moderators.

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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by MagickalMemories » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:31 pm

Official opinion in bold text.
Personal opinion in normal text.

You both have excellent reputations here. There is no good reason you should not be willing to work this out. One or both of you should be willing to give, at least a little, on this. You both made CLEAR mistakes, so it's up to you both to work on it.

It seems to me that c.e made a bit more error in judgement than Royals. That is my opinion.
With that in mind, I DO believe that canceling the trade and returning the items to each other is probably the best option. Clearly, there is not going to be a meeting of the minds. Royals will not be happy with what he's received, or anything short of what he's stated (frankly, I do think it's unfair to expect him to snip hands off of arms, especially after you said you'd send them. I won't get into the flail issue, as no pictures has been provided). Confusion.elemental is not going to be happy spending another $15 to resolve the bits issue. Keeping what you have and calling it a wash or returning the stuff and calling it over are the only two options I see as having any possibility of happening.

Frankly, you both made errors, and I think returning the stuff is the best choice. You need to trust in each others' best intentions, pack the items like you would want YOURS packed and eat the cost of returning them WITH TRACKING. Royals, I know you won't like that issue and will feel like you shouldn't have to pay shipping for this issue. The best I can say is (a) to reiterate that IMO, you do hold some of the blame and (b) your shipping in a padded envelope with some bubble-wrap will be less expensive than HIS cost to return full models to you.
Whatever the cost to either of you, it's an inexpensive price in the end for a very valuable lesson about clarity in trading. Personally, my own lesson on clarity has cost me about $30 or $40. You're both getting off pretty cheap in this instance.

Again, only the bold text is OFFICIAL opinion.


Eric
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Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by Royals » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:47 pm

I will have to say, the bits he sent me are no longer in the condition I received them in. They are now partially assembled. I've spend time cleaning mold lines and assembling them. All I really want is to be able to finish my models with proper pieces. Confusion.Elemental even agreed to send me arms and a single head.
Sent: Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:12 pm
by confusion.elemental
i have 5 right terminator arms w/o hands and only 1 hooded head.
I will agree to that as that is what was agreed upon as the resolution to the issue. He has stated he is willing to send those in the past. The real issue I am having is that the Terminator arms he sent me are from Dark Vengeance. They have the shoulder pads already on them and the pose does not fit the robed bodies. I am willing to accept generic Terminator arms from the Assault Terminator kit.
Sent: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:01 pm
by confusion.elemental
I have enough bits to make 5 DW knights or a command squad. I only have leftover black knights bits (heads, a few chest plates, weapons, symbols, command bits, a robed biker. Pieces to convert regular bikers to black knights. I also have the LE chaplain from the DV set and codex as well.
I think it bears repeating, as it stands, I cannot build 5 complete models. I'm willing to overlook the Flail and one hooded head. Again, Confusion.Elemental agreed to send me the five right arms w/o hands and one hooded head. The fact that the envelope was lost is no fault of mine. I don't mean to sound like I am complaining, but he intended to send those bits.

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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by confusion.elemental » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:00 pm

And as I've already stated, I've moved recently and your bits are in an envelope. It has yet to be found ad not all of my boxes are not yet unpacked. As soon as I find them I am still willing to send them to you.
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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by Royals » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:08 pm

I am perfectly willing to accept those bits; however, I'd like to place a time limit. I propose that you have until December 8th to locate the envelope. If you can't find it, you purchase new bits and send them to me. I feel that's fair.

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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by Royals » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:57 pm

As an update, confusion.elemental has found the envelope of bits and is sending them to me. Things are being worked out.

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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by Royals » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:00 pm

I'm a little bit at a loss here. I received the arms and head in the mail today; however, they're not at all what I expected. I received three Space Wolf Terminator Arms, two painted mono pose arms with hands clipped that look like they have been snapped off another model, and a primed head that also looks like it was pulled off of another model. Are my expectations too high? I'm done.

I have been extremely patient and understanding. I've made it clear what I want in this BTR. I figured with a reference score of 74, confusion.elemental would realize this is not acceptable. This almost seems like an insult. As it states in the Bartertown Rules, you are responsible for accurately describing the condition of your models(bits). Failure to do so may result in negative feedback and a BTR. This has happened twice in the same trade.

I'll be leaving negative feedback.
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Royals ( 76 )
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Re: BTR confusion.elemental

Post by Royals » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:05 pm

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