Very annoyed and running out of patience...

[luxion]

I'm a very easy going and patient guy, and rarely does someone get to me like the person I'm dealing with right now. Get ready to hear me VENT!

So I'm clearing space in my house and putting my hobby on hold because my wife and I are expecting our first child... thinking about that relaxes me a bit Many of you have helped me move this stuff and find new homes over the two months that I listed this stuff.

Anyways, I posted my "final" listing cause I wanted to focus on prepping the home. A person PMs me with interest in some of my models. I have pretty much concluded all other transactions, so it's just this person and me.

1. They present a list of models, I propose a price, sticking to my personal pricing rules, as well as my stated "bulk discount" on the forums.

2. They modify their list, I propose a new price, staying consistently with my policies.

3. They modify their list and ask for a "bulk" discount, I remind them that they're already getting a bulk offer, and propose a total. I offer discounted shipping, to help his/her gaming club, including free shipping after a certain price point.

4. They come back with yet another modified list, and I mechanically respond with my price, following my pricing rules with the added "discounted" shipping costs. I state my pricing guideline and inform the interested party that it's how I'm pricing the goods, and not budging.

5. The come back with a modified list and I respond with a price.

6. Repeat Step 5.

This goes on and on for almost a month. During this time, I even offered tiny incentives in the form of further discounts to help move models and meet their budget. They have even said that they're ready to pay. I have provided my PayPal email for payment 3 or 4 times. There was some miscommunication because the list changes so often (one of my quotes did not include an item because it was snuck into a modified list). Also, I got sick, moved stuff to storage, ate, slept, etc. Oh, and also during this time the other party got two positive feedback from other BTowners (he/she was the seller in this case).

Part of me wants to take back the "discounted" shipping, but I don't go back on my words. Part of me just wants to back out completely, but I don't want to be the "backer outer". I mentioned moving stuff to storage, but in actuality, it was suppose to be the "move gaming stuff out" because I thought I would be done with all my sales by this time. However, even though the other party said that they were going to pay, yet I haven't seen any money yet, I kept the models listed in the deal out and moved everything else to storage. I follow up with a "so... what's up?", of sorts. They reply that they are waiting on PayPal verification. I inquire how it's going two days later, and they reply they got the notification at noon that the funds are no longer frozen, and that they'll pay when they get access to a computer. Their next message is that they don't have enough funds to pay, so another modified list of models is submitted, whose total according to my pricing guidelines falls short of the budget they provided.

I really, really don't want to offer any more discounts, so I counter with a list that fits their budget... and I offer an alternative list that actually gives them a $1-2 discount, but at least provides them with the models they requested from their last message, which is variation #41 or something from the first message.

This was two days ago. I sent a follow-up message a short while ago. What can I do??? I only learned about the "deadbeat" and "backout" reports. Is this a BTR (despite no trade, yet), back out (if they stop responding?) or a deadbeat?

If I do receive payment and ship my models, I have the right to leave negative feedback, right? I intend to inform the other party of that, and why I think it is deserved, before I leave actual feedback. However, I shouldn't let them dissuade me from leaving negative feedback, right? Should I let them on with my impatience before payment has been processed even?


Regardless of what happens, I want to make traders be aware of my experience, so I'm just looking for the right place to do it and provide more specific details, instead of just a rant post.

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

If you have reached an agreement, and your trade partner reneges on the deal, that's a backout.

If you have been jockeying about and have yet to actually settle on exact terms like these:

I will send x,y,z.

You will send amount $a.

Agreed?

Agreed.

Then it's not a backout.

If you have agreed on terms, and you close the deal, you send yours, he sends his, and it's an awkward, stupid, annoying process, then yes, you can leave a negref--and probably should.

If your trade partner is dawdling on payment, give him a 48 hour warning, and then file a BO and move on.

[wboyden]

I agree with all that sorrow stated here but Negative Feedback part if the deal has not been finalized yet and once it has he pays right away then while maybe a PIA the deal was done and he paid so ok maybe not a positive experience maybe a netural and state in the comments about how difficult this person was to deal with

[luxion]

Okay, we've once again agreed to a list of models and a price. *Fingers crossed.*

Assuming the deal goes through to completion, I guess the month-long mind-changing is only worth a "neutral" feedback. "Negative" feedback should be reserved for transactions that harms people's wallets and not just their hearts I guess.

[TheRhino]

I'd be very hesitant to leave anything other than positive feedback for a deal in which payment was made promptly after a final agreement. While negotiation has been lengthy, you really can't ding someone for haggling. If you intend to leave them anything other than positive feedback after successfully selling models, you might want to break off your negotiations now. IMO, negative or neutral feedback is for actions incurred after a deal has been finalized and struck. "You made me work too hard for my money." isn't a valid reason for neutral or negative feedback.

[luxion]

We're suppose to be watching out for other traders, via feedback and special forums. How do I tell other traders that this specific trader was tough to finalize a deal with?

I'm all right with haggling, hence my mechanical responses. The problem is that we finalized on a price, that went to:

"Waiting on PayPal to verify me."

"Verified, but I need to get to a computer this evening to send payment."

"How much for these models instead?"

Is that still considered haggling? A week later, we settle on a new price and I'm waiting on payment, yet again. Asked for it over the weekend, but no response. I've given them a 48-hour ultimatum, otherwise I'm canceling the "deal".

Assuming the trade goes through and both parties receive the goods/money, does that warrant a "positive" feedback? "Feedback: Positive - Took 2 months to work out a deal, buyer kept me hanging for days before changing mind, twice. A++++!"

Now assuming the buyer is aware of my intentions to not leave neutral feedback, is it okay for them to backout for that purpose? How am I suppose to share this experience and warn other traders that they might have difficulties with this person, other than a "venting" post? Am I suppose to cancel negotiations to protect this other party's reputation, and pretend nothing ever happened?

[kturock]

Sounds like 2 of the last traders I dealt with.

[Haight]

In my opinion, after 2-3 back and forths of haggling, you're either at a deal, or you're too far apart. I usually won't bother for more than 2-3 rounds unless i reallllllly want something, and the other person appears reasonable.

I've turned down initial offers flat out because the initial offer was out to lunch.

The key is communication though. If 3-4 days go by without a response, it can really drag a deal on... and the longer negotiations go on, i find the less likely i am going to get paid if i'm selling.

That's why my offers expire after 2 days. I check my messages daily, and when i have a couple hot deals going, i check it probably hourly. I don't expect hourly in return, but i do expect a trade partner to check in once a day until things are finalized.

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

"Waiting on PayPal to verify me."

"Verified, but I need to get to a computer this evening to send payment."

"How much for these models instead?"

No--and the key is--"instead". If you have already agreed to a deal, and all that is taking time is verification/payment processing/postage purchasing, then that's that. "Instead" means that your buyer is proposing a new deal--and that can happen during negotiations, but not after.

Is that still considered haggling? A week later, we settle on a new price and I'm waiting on payment, yet again. Asked for it over the weekend, but no response. I've given them a 48-hour ultimatum, otherwise I'm canceling the "deal".

Assuming the trade goes through and both parties receive the goods/money, does that warrant a "positive" feedback? "Feedback: Positive - Took 2 months to work out a deal, buyer kept me hanging for days before changing mind, twice. A++++!"

Now assuming the buyer is aware of my intentions to not leave neutral feedback, is it okay for them to backout for that purpose? How am I suppose to share this experience and warn other traders that they might have difficulties with this person, other than a "venting" post? Am I suppose to cancel negotiations to protect this other party's reputation, and pretend nothing ever happened?

I have had some looooong deal processing times--and my vendors have always been patient with me. For my part--I pay them! I also try to state that there will be a delay, and sometimes those delays have meant that, having been back and forth on some stuff for months, i just go ahead and buy it all rather than tease out what I need, exactly, and what is surplus.

But I try to always negotiate up, rather than down--eg, "I want MOAR of your figs--do you have this and this?"--rather than--"Can be drop a few things?"

Feedback is a personal decision, but I encourage traders to leave feedback that matches their experience--not vindictive feedback, not petty feedback, but accurate feedback, and I think that can include neutrefs and negrefs even on a deal that has been completed.

[luxion]

Seems everyone has different opinions and thresholds on the matter...

Well, the buyer has finally paid, a higher than agreed upon amount. Apparently he adjusted the "final" model list and price on their own, rounding down instead of rounding off - after I provided an additional, small discount. I excused it and now I'll get to packing and shipping the models after work.

[pretre]

Seems everyone has different opinions and thresholds on the matter...

Well, the buyer has finally paid, a higher than agreed upon amount. Apparently he adjusted the "final" model list and price on their own, rounding down instead of rounding off - after I provided an additional, small discount. I excused it and now I'll get to packing and shipping the models after work.

That's kinda BS. I would go neutral on this at the least. Jerking you around and then paying less for agreed for and renegotiating the deal without consent? I mean, I know you want it to be over and done with so are probably letting it slide, but geeze, what a jerk. I would not want to deal with that guy.

[luxion]

It's really a long story - 2 months in the making - with lots of 'annoying' parts. However, we have been in constant communication. This user has accrued positive feedback over the past two months (he was a zero and stated to me that he was new to BTown), and I do believe that he's trying to do some good for his game club.

I'm a pushover, but that's the reason I wanted to write this post, to see how I can make other sellers wary in the event that the trade fell through. I plan on writing a message to the buyer to explain why I'm leaving neutral feedback (before I leave feedback), and I'll point out where I feel he can fix things in the future to make future trading experiences more pleasurable for both parties.

[TheRhino]

It's really a long story - 2 months in the making - with lots of 'annoying' parts. However, we have been in constant communication. This user has accrued positive feedback over the past two months (he was a zero and stated to me that he was new to BTown), and I do believe that he's trying to do some good for his game club.

I'm a pushover, but that's the reason I wanted to write this post, to see how I can make other sellers wary in the event that the trade fell through. I plan on writing a message to the buyer to explain why I'm leaving neutral feedback (before I leave feedback), and I'll point out where I feel he can fix things in the future to make future trading experiences more pleasurable for both parties.

That's an excellent solution.

[carmachu]

See for me there is a certain point that one just cuts bait and says "not interested anymore, thanks for the time".

I've never had a deal in all my time take longer the a week to finalize even when the other guy is waiting for his ebay sale to finish up so funds are available.

Sometimes you just have to walk away.

[luxion]

Update:
PayPal payment sent, models shipped, time elapsed and the buyer left me a message, "Leave a reference and I'll do the same." So I'm guessing he got the goods and no complaints to report (99% NIB stuff anyways).

So I write a lengthy PM about why I think he deserves a Neutral feedback, before leaving actual feedback, and I ask for comments or questions His response was a terse, "I'll mirror your feedback, thanks". I'm hoping that doesn't mean an equate to a "neutral" feedback, which I just left moments ago, but we'll see.