BTR - celestialkin (Resolved by Paypal Dispute)

[Idaho11]

This is a bad trader report for celestialkin.

On March 18, I contacted him about a post for 2x Tomb King battalions and a TK rulebook. We worked out a price over a large number of PMs on that date (he was very communicative) and I sent a PayPal payment to him (also shown below). He said he'd ship out within the next few days. After that, he went missing for a week. (During this time, I also found out that he had the item listed on eBay while he was offering it up here, which I believe is a violation of the forum's rules: link to eBay auction - you can see the same pictures are used) I posted a thread in the Help forum and got in touch with porkuslime. Within 12 hours of porkuslime e-mailing him, he got in touch with me. He said that he was in the hospital and he was in danger of losing his house. This is also when he let slip that he had spent the money I sent him, including shipping, to secure the house he leases. He said he'd get stuff out soon (by borrowing money for it), then went incommunicado for a few more days. He sent me one last message on Sunday saying that I shouldn't worry and he'd ship stuff out soon; I told him I need tracking info by Monday night or I'd escalate this. I gave him until tonight because he said (earlier) he was getting paid on the 2nd. He hasn't opened my last two PMs, and last check he hasn't been on since April 1st.

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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:27 am
by Idaho11
Can you give me a list of which figures have been used/assembled/painted?

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(This is a quote of his initial post, quoted in my PM)
Subject: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Paypal.
celestialkin wrote:Hello!

I have the following lot of Tomb King models for sale. I want to get rid of them quick an cheap, so I hope this is a great deal for one of you.


Have:

-2x of the Tomb Kings Battalion boxes. I believe they are the 2010 versions of the battalion boxes. The boxes are open, but they look like they have either been slightly used or none at all. There are also some figures that are already made and painted.

-A clean copy of the Tomb Kings codex.


Want:

-$150 + $38 (Shipping). Paypal personal/gift option only please.




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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:22 am
by celestialkin
Sorry, but I know next to nothing about Warhammer Fantasy. I am a 40K player.

I got these from a D&D buddy so we could use them in a D&D campaign I was planning. Sadly the group switched DMs on me, so I am selling these.

I'll tell you what. If you take them as is, I will drop it to an even $130 + Shipping, AND I'll throw in the codex. At the very least you can trade/sell off the codex for more minis.

Would that be OK?

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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:23 am
by celestialkin
LoL. Oops. I thought you were someone else I was messaging with.

Anyway, offer is still good. $130 + Shipping for everything.
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:13 am
by Idaho11
Hmm, good deal. Though I still need to know which minis are in what condition! You said some were assembled/used - are the others NOS? And how many are assembled/used? Are they just assembled, or painted/primed?


celestialkin wrote:LoL. Oops. I thought you were someone else I was messaging with.

Anyway, offer is still good. $130 + Shipping for everything.

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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:43 am
by celestialkin
Below is a picture of one of the boxes opened. As you can see almost everything is NOS (New on Spru). Only a handful are put together, and they range from simply assembled to painted. Not many though!



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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:54 am
by Idaho11
Do you have a picture of all the assembled models? I'm trying to get an idea of exactly how many are built.

Also, any chance you could get shipping down? I'd be very likely to buy if you could get shipping to $20, for a total of $150.

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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:03 am
by celestialkin
I'd have to get a picture for you late tonight/early tomorrow morning. Hence why I dropped it $20 to get it moving ASAP.

As for the shipping, it is going to take me two large flat rate boxes to ship all this, so I couldn't simply take half the shipping cost upon myself.
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:16 pm
by celestialkin
LoL!!!

Well, I finally looked in that box that came along with the Tomb King battalion boxes. In all honesty I had not peaked in, and was going by what my friend said. Look what I found below.

They are still in the lot if you want them. Only exception is what I think is a demonlord near the back, since I could use him for D&D.



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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:23 pm
by Idaho11
Lol! I can't tell what they are - those look like they're not even Tomb Lords! Are the TL all unassembled then, or am I just blind?
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:25 pm
by celestialkin
They are 40K Tyranids plus a Chaos Demon Prince.

So yeah, the Tomb Kings are fine.
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:30 pm
by Idaho11
Ah awesome. Well if you can get the shipping to $20 or $25 by throwing it all in a box and going parcel post, then I will definitely take the 2x TK Battalion, the army book, and the 'Nids for $130.

Let me know.
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:32 pm
by celestialkin
I'll tell you what, I'll try, but if it comes to more will you re-compensate me?

However, you do know the boxes themselves will not be able to fit, so you would just be getting sprus.
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:35 pm
by celestialkin
If you agree please send $130 + $25 (Shipping) to: bidyourjunkaway@gmail.com
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:43 pm
by Idaho11
What won't they fit into? I know they won't fit into a flat-rate box, but I figured you could find a box that would fit the boxes too if you weren't shipping in those (I'd even throw in a few bucks for a box if you need to pick one up). If you go that route and send me the dimension of the box, I can even e-mail you a shipping label so all you'd have to do is drop the box off at the post office/UPS!
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:49 pm
by celestialkin
Oh!

Silly me!

Sure, $25 should do it then.
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:04 pm
by Idaho11
Alright, so final rundown:
I'll send $130+$25 s/h=$155 via PayPal

You'll send two NOS TK Battalions, the most recent TK army book, and some random 'Nids

If that's the case, you can either shoot me your PayPal info, or you can send me an invoice for that amount to *edited out my e-mail address*!

Thanks!
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:18 pm
by celestialkin
Paypal:
bidyourjunkaway@gmail.com


Please let me know when you send.
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:20 pm
by celestialkin
Please send as Personal/Gift option so there are no fees.

Please let me know when you send. I'll have them out tonight or tomorrow if I get them soon!
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:56 pm
by Idaho11
Mind if I send it as Money Owed - Goods but pay the PayPal fee myself? It just keeps the PayPal coverage in case anything goes wrong!
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:06 pm
by celestialkin
Well, you have 0 feedback, so I fear you might make a claim when you get it (Nothing Personal).

But OK. I can always do a postal claim I guess. LoL.

Send away and cover the fees.
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:40 pm
by Idaho11
Thanks for being accommodating on that request! I just sent $160, which should cover the PayPal fees on $155 (2.9% + .30).

I know Bartertown rules are that the feedback here is the only one that matters, but to allay any fears you might have, you can check out my BoardGameGeek feedback here *EDITED OUT*

And we all have to start somewhere! Thanks for being my first Bartertown trade! Looking forward to getting the models.

For ease of reference:
*ADDRESS EDITED OUT*
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:10 pm
by Idaho11
Any chance you dropped this off in the mail today? If not, no big deal - just checking up!
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:50 am
by Idaho11
Hey,

Did you get this dropped in the mail this week? No worries if you didn't, just trying to get a sense of when it's going to show up.

Thanks!

-Matt
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:44 pm
by Idaho11
Hey celestialkin,

It's been about a week since the last time you contacted me, which is making me a little worried. If you're busy, no worries - but at least checking in and letting me know whether you've shipped the item yet would be appreciated. If you haven't, no big deal!

-Matt
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At this point, I posted a thread asking about what to do (http://www.bartertown.com/trading/viewt ... 0&t=193972). Porkuslime helped me out and sent celestialkin a PM – he wrote back to me about 12 hours later.
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Sent: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:57 am
by celestialkin
I am SO sorry.

I was both hospitalized, and have been fighting to save my house I lease. As of an hour ago the funds for my house are secure. I will ship these out as soon as possible. I will try to borrow money to ship it out this week, and pay them back on the 2nd when I get paid.

Please forgive me sir.
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:32 am
by Idaho11
Hey ck,

Oh my God, I'm sorry to hear about both of those incidents. Though I'm glad you seem to be in better health and have the housing situation settled.

No rush on these if you need a few days to get life straightened out. I don't mind the delays at all, especially with everything you have going on. Just keep me up to date on what's going on, and feel better!
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:34 pm
by Idaho11
Hey ck,

Just checking in to see if you got a chance to ship these out yet. No worries if not, just checking in!

-Matt
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:29 pm
by Idaho11
I know I just sent my last PM yesterday, but after the first time when you went missing for a week, I'm a little antsy. You've read my PM and have logged on both yesterday and today. I'd really appreciate even just a PM saying that you haven't shipped it yet, if that's the case. Especially since your last PM made it seem as if you already spent all of the money I sent you.

I had another deal that I paid for several days after the one I had with you, and I've now had those items for 4 days. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you to ship items out within 2 weeks of payment. I understand that you had personal issues come up, which is fine, but I'm going to have to ask you to get me tracking information by Monday evening or I'm going to have to take the appropriate actions.

-Matt
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:52 pm
by celestialkin
Hey.

Money coming in a few days. Your stuff will be sent out I promise.
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(These last two are unread by him)

Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:26 pm
by Idaho11
Can you be more specific than a few days? You said you were getting paid tomorrow - will you be able to ship tomorrow/Wednesday?
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Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:49 am
by Idaho11
Alright, you said you were getting paid on the 2nd, which was yesterday. You should have the money to ship out today. If I don't have tracking numbers by tonight (Wednesday night), I'm going to have to escalate the PayPal claim and file a BTR. I'm sorry it's come to this.

-Matt

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PayPal e-mail:
Dear [Idaho11],

You sent a payment for $160.00 USD to Irma Cedeno.

Please note that it may take a little while for this payment to appear in the Recent Activity list on your Account Overview.

View the details of this transaction online


Your monthly account statement is available anytime; just log in to your account at [link]. To correct any errors, please contact us through our Help Center at [link].

Amount: $160.00 USD
Sent on: March 18, 2013
Subject line of your payment email: You've got money! Tomb Kings lot
Sincerely,
PayPal

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I've currently escalated my claim with PayPal, so we'll see how that goes. I don't know what happens if he actually has nothing left in his account/bank account. I haven't yet filed a mail fraud/police report, but I will if this doesn't get resolved with the BTR filed and the PayPal claim escalated.

[celestialkin]

Here is my reply to this member I just sent him:

"OMG! What the hell do you want?

You said you would be patient due to my issue, and when I am finally getting cash into my paypal you change your mind being inpatient taking the money back and putting my account into negatives. Now I can't send stuff out to four other people as well thanks to you you lying about being patient. You really screwed me over.

What do you want? You got the money back through Paypal already, and you ruined my feedback here already. Why the hell make a police report as well?

Go away! You got you money and screwed me up. What more do you want?"


I do not get what he wants! He said he would be patient due to the financial issue that hit me. He then changed his mind, so when the money for something I sold on ebay hit it was still in the negatives. Now I am screwed in being able to ship to four other people/pay them back.

And he is going to do a police report now that he already has his money back?

I do not understand this member. Is he a child?

[Idaho11]

Update:
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(this was sent to celestialkin after the last PM in my original post)

Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:21 pm
by Idaho11

I've filed a claim with PayPal and submitted a BTR (viewtopic.php?f=103&t=194903). Depending on how this situation resolves, I will also contact the proper authorities if necessary. I'm more than happy to stop/remove both of these should I receive a full refund or my items (a tracking number is not enough at this point).
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After receiving this, I still received no communication from celestialkin. He didn't respond to the PayPal claim I submitted, so my money is still frozen (I understand that his is, as well).

Yesterday (Saturday, the 6th), I sent a PM to porkuslime to see if he would 'mediate' again and let celestialkin know I was considering legal action. You can see that PM and the response here:
Re: One week with no communication after payment - response?
Sent: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:19 pm
From: porkuslime(2380)
To: Idaho11

Idaho11 wrote:
Sorry to bother you about this again, but can you send him another e-mail letting him know that a police report is going to filed against him if he doesn't get in touch with me by the end of the weekend and/or refund my money? I already put up a BTR, but I've become increasingly pissed that it seems like he used me as a payday loan service because he couldn't afford to pay his bills.

I will fire off another email, and hope for the best. Since he did not contact me after the last email I sent.. he may do nothing. But.. I agree,... police report is probably best.. did you file a paypal claim anyhow (even though it seems likely he drained that.. )

Email has been sent.. sorry it took me 24 hours to reading this PM, I do stuff with family on the weekends and am spotty online.


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(You can see this posted above in celestialkin's response; he sent it to me shortly after porkuslime sent that PM to me)

Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:37 pm
by celestialkin

OMG! What the hell do you want?

You said you would be patient due to my issue, and when I am finally getting cash into my paypal you change your mind being inpatient taking the money back and putting my account into negatives. Now I can't send stuff out to four other people as well thanks to you you lying about being patient. You really screwed me over.

What do you want? You got the money back through Paypal already, and you ruined my feedback here already. Why the hell make a police report as well?

Go away! You got you money and screwed me up. What more do you want?
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To date, I have not received my money back. The PayPal claim is still open and waiting for a response from celestialkin.
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(My response to the previous PM):
Re: H: 2x Tomb Kings Battalion Boxes. 2010. + Codex. W: Payp
Sent: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:20 pm
From: Idaho11(4)
To: celestialkin

I would have liked you to stay in communication with me throughout the process. An e-mail letting me know when to expect tracking info would have been nice, or at least letting me know when you expected to have the cash. I would have had no problem being patient if you had maintained communication. Instead, you provided no information about when I could expect my item or a refund.

I would also actually like my money back, as I haven't yet been refunded. Until I actually have my money or my items, I will absolutely consider filing a police report so that I can recover those funds. If you refund my money, I will drop the matter and resolve the BTR.

It's not my fault you don't have enough money to ship out items. In fact, you spent money I sent you specifically to ship out my items on other things. If you didn't have the money to make the trades or sell items, then you shouldn't be doing so. And if you need to sell something to raise cash for something important, then you should make sure that you earmark part of that money to ship the item. As is, you used my cash as a payday loan service, then disappeared for a week, then told me you didn't have enough money to ship my item before disappearing for another week, and are upset with me for wanting my money back.

And I checked every step along the way with mods before taking any action; everything I've done is on their advice and with their consent. They read every PM between us and also felt like you were acting inappropriately and had overplayed any amount of reasonable level of patience.

To sum up, I want my money back. When I receive my money back, I will consider the matter closed. Since you have gotten in contact with me, I will refrain from filing a police report unless it becomes clear that I will not receive my money back.

[xFallenxx]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but once the money is received by the shipper, shouldn't a part of that be used to ship the models out? How long does it take to move the cash from paypal to a bank account?

For myself (A regular purchaser if not seller), I fully expect to have my item shipped the day (24hrs) the shipper receives the "you have received cash" notification from Payapl. If it's a matter of not having the cash to carry the shipping costs available when the transaction is complete, then they have no business doing business.

[pretre]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but once the money is received by the shipper, shouldn't a part of that be used to ship the models out? How long does it take to move the cash from paypal to a bank account?

For myself (A regular purchaser if not seller), I fully expect to have my item shipped the day (24hrs) the shipper receives the "you have received cash" notification from Payapl. If it's a matter of not having the cash to carry the shipping costs available when the transaction is complete, then they have no business doing business.

It can take 3-5 days for Paypal to reach bank account. It is a pet peeve of mine when people hold off sending until they get money out of paypal. Ugh.

[MagickalMemories]

Neither of these last 2 comments belong in a BTR.
Let's keep it on track, folks.
Thanks.

Eric

[Idaho11]

PayPal resolved the dispute in my favor. However, I would like to note that celestialkin refused to respond to the dispute, so instead of him just refunding my money and getting it back to me ASAP, he sat on it so I'd have to wait to get my money back after PayPal's response window closed.

It just cleared today, so I consider this matter resolved.

[porkuslime]

OK.. Marked as resolved and locked. If anyone needs to add to this, please PM a Staff Member.

-Porkuslime