Guard questions

[Spartan 117]

Lol I love Chenkov! Those conscripts can atcually be very deadly if your opponent ignores them. I palyed with my IG in a tournament and got 3rd because all the powersuit armies thought had to target my Medusa's and Hydras and didnt even focus on this big massive 50 man conscript squad marching across the table. I played chaos armies twice and those conscripts killed maybe 3 daemon princes. They also decimated some SM tactical squads once the Hydras ripped them apart. Chenkov is totally worth it. You just need to knopw how to use the conscripts correctly and what to target them with. With all those shots it doesnt really matter what the toughness of the enemy is becasue odds are you'll put at least 10 wounds on them with your "lasgun flashlights".

[Norseman]

With jump troops and skimmers, almost all armies are able to bypass the conscript meatshield and get directly into close combat with the units hiding behind them.

If it is done right proper unit spacing bypass is impossible. Remember that a enemy unit can not com within 1" of an enemy unless assaulting. All you need is a conscript squad 5" thin and bypass is impossible. You CAN force things. You can set things up so that your opponent MUST do something.

[quote} Of course, in cases where the opponent is not able to do that, all they need to do is spread his forces out to prevent you from assaulting multiple units [/quote] By definition this is controlling your opponents movements and deployment = board control.

and with shooting only a few shots into them, they can remove their ability to spread very far by forcing you to move them to maintain 2" coherency.

You have to strategically remove guys that are making a difference. Take from the ends. Also what is wrong with moving them?

[quoet] Both prevent you from using them to get board control without them easily contesting the quarters or objectives. [/quote] False

With the tanks, you cant have it both ways, if they provide a cover save for the tank, then they provide a cover save for the units the tank is shooting at. The placement of the turret does not count into that according to the rules.

False The LOS is taken from the barrel of the gun with vehicles. If the gun can trace a clear lin of sight there is NO COVER. Hence you can Have it BOTH ways. Just like you can hide Leman Russ's behind Chimeras and the can still fire their turret. Same as Razorbacks behind Rhinos. This is a KEY point to the game.

However, they CAN do this to prevent an opponent from assaulting the tank.

True

In all cases, it still remains that regular troops would be far more effective in terms of points spent, damage given out/taken, versatility and so forth.
This is why I asked about the conscripts to begin with, they appear to be a waste of points except to spend a few leftover points and even then, the points would likely be better spent somewhere else. Of course, if you are going for a fluff based army, they would fit in VERY well in many occasions.
Like your idea of bassies though. Using the denied flank tactic or opposit table quarters scenarios would let these types of tanks really shine.
Does anyone else play guard or have experiences/opinions on the different guard units?

Every different option of troops in the codex is powerful in its own way. Vets are great for going out and attacking objectives. Infantry Squads are great for some long ranged fire power and somewhat useful for holding objectives but are expensive compared to conscripts that with the right setup can do exactly the same thing.

[EVIL INC]

It seems that with the high point cost of the conscripts, the regular infantry units can be more effective. Remember that the addition of chenkov himself is 50 points and the ability to respawn the conscripts (which also gives your opponent at least one free kill point each time you do it) costs 75 points. By the time you count in these extra costs, your end up spending more points than you would if you were going to use regular guys and not only have less able guys but less options for them. The only thing you gain is the ability to give your opponent a free kill point in order to either get a free round of shooting if your opponent is stupid enough to assault them on his turn instead of just shooting them or give them a free kill point in order to rush in and grab an obj on your table edge. The first is a one trick pony while the other may not even be viable as an option.
Even in terms of tactical model removal, the unit still has to maintain unit coherency. Taking them off the edges, brings the edges closer to the middle and means that they cover a smaller front while removal from other places may mean that they are out of coherency and movement is needed making them strung out wider, count as moving in terms of fire range or that the edges need to come closer to the middle.
One other thing to remember is that as a single unit, they can only claim one objective or table quarter. Even if they are strung across the entire game board covering all four quarters and more than one objective, they cant actually claim or contest all of them, just a single one.
An opponent moving his models the way he wants to is not forcing their movements. that is them doing what they were going to do whether or not you had conscripts. You could just as easily say that they are forcing you to spread your conscripts out and that they are thus controlling your movement. The same with your 5" spreading of the models. You could also say that they are forcing you to deploy that way.
This is not to say that I think they are useless or be used to good effect, I am just saying that I feel that your points would be better spent on other stuff in terms of game effectiveness and points value.

[don_mondo]

One other thing to remember is that as a single unit, they can only claim one objective or table quarter. Even if they are strung across the entire game board covering all four quarters and more than one objective, they cant actually claim or contest all of them, just a single one.

Correction, a single unit can claim multiple objectives. It's in the Main rulebook FAQ, IIRC.....................

[EVIL INC]

Can you provide the page number where it says that? I have only ever seen it played (including at GW sponsored events such as ard boys)as a unit only being able to claim one objective and if they are covering more than one, needing to choose which one.

[oaflord]

Can you provide the page number where it says that? I have only ever seen it played (including at GW sponsored events such as ard boys)as a unit only being able to claim one objective and if they are covering more than one, needing to choose which one.

First question in the Organizing a Battle section on page 6 of the Main Rulebook FAQ. Done it myself a few times. Conga line FTW!!!

oAF

[don_mondo]

Can you provide the page number where it says that? I have only ever seen it played (including at GW sponsored events such as ard boys)as a unit only being able to claim one objective and if they are covering more than one, needing to choose which one.

Problem with the Ard boyz is that while it is a GW organized event, most of them are run by the local stores. Even the GW GT and Games Day RTT judges occasionally made mistakes, in spite of all we could do (I know, I was one)............................

[EVIL INC]

Thats new to me. Just looked in the rulebook and it doesnt say that they can. Regardless, even if a single unit can capture multiple objectives, I would rather have a unit that costs less points, has better stats and has a wider variety of options open to it than a more expensive unit with no options, lesser stats more likely to run that costs more points.

[oaflord]

Thats new to me. Just looked in the rulebook and it doesnt say that they can. Regardless, even if a single unit can capture multiple objectives, I would rather have a unit that costs less points, has better stats and has a wider variety of options open to it than a more expensive unit with no options, lesser stats more likely to run that costs more points.

Don't get me wrong, I don't plan for it... Only if the opportunity presents itself would I do it.

oAF

[EVIL INC]

In the last tourney I went to, I got 2nd place. The prize I chose was a chimera.
Here is what I did with it...
A long time ago, I had traded for some toy missile racks. I took 2 of the large heavy weapons bases and glued the together bottom to bottom with a big magnet inside. I also attached the missile racks to them along with the hq imperial radar dish with the eagle on it..
in the middle of the bottom, I put a round base(the bottom of the round base perfectly fits over the turret circle. Inside the chimera, I put another round base upside down with a big magnet on it.
This lets me have either a chimera or a manticore (with turret mounted missiles) depending on how I wanna use it. It actually looked good after I was done painting it. Cant wait to use it in ardboyz.