Iron Warriors and Cypher

[MagickalMemories]

death guard- typhus- death guard are troops
khorn- kharn- berserkers are troops
1000sons- arahman- 1000 sons are troops
sleneesh- lucious (sp?)- noise marines are troops

Those all are already troop choices.


@ kturock re: lack of Drop Pods, Land Speeders, etc

Personally, I wouldn't like that. I already have a Space Marines army. I don't want my Chaos Space Marines to just be Space Marines... but less lawful...
I like that they have different rule, tanks, kit and unit choices.

Eric

[EZ mac]

Subject: Iron Warriors and Cypher

death guard- typhus- death guard are troops
khorn- kharn- berserkers are troops
1000sons- arahman- 1000 sons are troops
sleneesh- lucious (sp?)- noise marines are troops

Those all are already troop choices.

Eric

sorry ment to say that those could be elites (tho u could give a mark to any undecided unit like basic CSMs) but when u take special character (or loard with mark of whatever or something) they become troops.

I'm not trying to rewrite the book or anything but it would have been nice to have a fluff reason that makes an army better by taking a named special character.

[Ironhide]

Well, I always figured that CSM didn't have drop pods because they used them all up. I highly doubt a drop pod can be reused once it has done its job.

[kturock]

Actually, I never thought it was very fluffy for Iron Warriors to get those. Since they are supposed to be specialists in building fortifications, I thought they should have better cover saves or some kind of fortifications special rule. Something along those lines at least.

Better builders before the fall become better destroyers after. Siege specialists. Someone had the lay seige to the emperors palace.

Wasn't there a piece of fluff where the IW conquered a planet and fortified it, and basically challenged the Imp Fists to come and beat them; right after the failed attempt to conquer Terra? And then didn't they retreat into the Eye and build a huge fortress world? I've always thought of the IW as seige defenders, and the Imp Fists as seige attackers.

The last part of that is actually in the codex, I think the newest one, but it could be the one previous. I've been reading them both.

[kturock]

Well, I always figured that CSM didn't have drop pods because they used them all up. I highly doubt a drop pod can be reused once it has done its job.

one of the books in the Horus Heresy series, I think the book about the Mechanicus/mechanicum split told of the retrieval of the drop pods. They are dug out, resealed and transported by even bigger vehicles. The same with the titans.

[kturock]

After looking over the stats i the newest csm and sm codexes, the techmarine sans servo-arm and the basic csm have the excat same stat line and costs.
The servo arm is 30 points and gives a power glove attack and a repair roll of 5-6 on d6.

The question is; would you have a problem if your opponent fielded Iron Warriors and had a 'tech-marine'?

I'm getting some Iron Warriors in a deal and am thinking about fielding them using the new 'vanilla' csm rules.

[mrrshann618]

Personally I'd have no problem. If you go over to Bell of Lost Souls, one of the writers for the blog is using the SW codex for his own CSM creation. For example he is using Bloodletters on Juggernaughts as the thunderwolf cavalry.

I'd say go for it. Since GW cannot seem to make up their mind about what the CSM really are (are they simply washed out "Evil" versions of marines or are they the Fallen God-warriors with that excessive use of Demonic edge to them)

I might have a problem if you mixed rules from each of the codexs, but as long as you are keeping to a single codex rule set then Most people shouldn't have a problem

[kturock]

I compared stats in both the 5th and 4th ed codexes. There's ben alot of changes.
Some seem to basiclly even out; lowering th cost by 15 points, and hae no standard weapon. Basic weapon costs 15 points.

Others, like the defiler, increased in cost and lowered of stats. It wasn't that good to begin with, now I won't even trade to get one back.

Land raiders seem to be 'better'.

[MagickalMemories]

There's always the possibility of using your CSM models with the SM codex and utilizing the "counts as" allowance, per the BGB (Big Gray Rulebook). That would be fine.

Mixing the different codices tends to be frowned upon. I mean, for SOME people, where does it stop?
"I'm taking my Techmarine and putting him in an Eldar army..." KWIM?

If you have/get a regular group and run the idea by them (playing a CSM army but also taking a techmarine to match with IW fluff), most reasonable people are going to be okay with it. You might want to make a concession, like using him in an HQ slot, instead of Elite (since Elite CSM slots don't get used much, it could be seen as a "best of both worlds" type thing). Somce might go so far as to letting you field a Basilisk or something, like the old IW rules, if you only use basic stuff and pay current prices.

Using the "vanilla" rules is absolutely fine, though. Plus, I'd imagine that you could make some damned SERIOUS looking Sternguard with CSM and Vanguard with Raptors! LOL

As for the defiler... don't count it out too fully. New cover rules help it if you are playing with decent cover. Also, the "run" rule gives it a shot at actually reaching combat.
I don't remember... Can you get Smoke Launchers on Defilers?

Anyway... Welcome back to the fold. : )

Eric

[HarlequinZero]

Well, I always figured that CSM didn't have drop pods because they used them all up. I highly doubt a drop pod can be reused once it has done its job.

one of the books in the Horus Heresy series, I think the book about the Mechanicus/mechanicum split told of the retrieval of the drop pods. They are dug out, resealed and transported by even bigger vehicles. The same with the titans.

Forge World also puts out a Chaos drop pod. Apparently it was the newest equipment pre-Heresy and doubled as both a drop pod and assault boat. It had the ability to return to its home craft under its own power. However, they were all possessed by evil machine spirits and they had a tendency to eat their passengers. Hence, the current Space Marine drop pod is actually a lower tech version, but it doesn't kill it's occupants during the drop.

[MagickalMemories]

...and, if you ever buy any of those, you're CRAZY if you model it so that the legs retract.

One of my buddies has those monstrosities. I can't tell you how many times (because it looked "cool," of course) he deployed that thing with the legs extended, only to have them shift and drop the pod, mid-game. Sometimes onto the models deployed from it.

Ugh.


Eric

[AJCarrington]

One of my buddies has those monstrosities. I can't tell you how many times (because it looked "cool," of course) he deployed that thing with the legs extended, only to have them shift and drop the pod, mid-game. Sometimes onto the models deployed from it.

On some level here, the irony seems to fit the fluff perfectly...

AJC

PS Completely understand the comments and frustration - just struck my funny bone reading this.

[kturock]

I just reread the stats on the csm and techmarine. the tech has a 2+ save and 8 LD, the csm has 3+ save and 9 LD.
Tech is elite. SO i figure, what I'd propose is this:
1 Iron Warrior CSM as an elite + 30 points to get the servo arm. NONE of the tech marines special abilities except from what's imparted wth the servo arm; power fist, repair on a roll of 5-6 on d6.
No artificer armor, no servitors, 3+ save, 9 LD.
Maybe adding the forting skill, to increase the cover save of 1 piece of terrain.
Thoughts?

[MagickalMemories]

I just reread the stats on the csm and techmarine. the tech has a 2+ save and 8 LD, the csm has 3+ save and 9 LD.
Tech is elite. SO i figure, what I'd propose is this:
1 Iron Warrior CSM as an elite + 30 points to get the servo arm. NONE of the tech marines special abilities except from what's imparted wth the servo arm; power fist, repair on a roll of 5-6 on d6.
No artificer armor, no servitors, 3+ save, 9 LD.
Maybe adding the forting skill, to increase the cover save of 1 piece of terrain.
Thoughts?

I think you're better off using it as-is from the SM codex. The less tweaking you do to the stats, the less likely people are to have issues with it.

Eric

[kturock]

Well, the techmarine, as written, actually has more and is better than the standard csm + servoarm.
I figured by using the lesser of the 2.

I was going to type the stats for both models, but then figured after all the work, it's get pulled because I listed stats from the book.

The csm w/servoarm would be 45 points; 15 +30 for the arm. The CSM has a 9 Ld and 3+ save.
The techmarine is 50 points, has Artificer armour, the special rules of: And They Shall Know No fear, Combat Tactics, Independant Character, Blessing of the Omnissiah, Bolster Defences. Has 8Ld and 2+ save.

HMM after re-reading it yet again...making the csm an asp. champ would give him less than the techmarine and cost more.

So back to MM's idea, taking the tech straight from the book and calling him..whats the Iron Warriors one called, a warsmith? or is that their Asp. champ?

Then again, just to keep it simple, since I only have 9 IW and 1 warsmith, and list them as CSM and asp. champ.
I'm planning on trying to get more, and painting the more into IW.


Oh, btw, MM, I still haven't gotten the emails you were gonna send me.