Bartertown.com

Frustrating to have to post here so soon. I think this falls under the realm of backouts. If not, feel free to remove it.

md02geist and I decided to trade for his pair of 4th edition Lictors at an accepted price of $28USD. Shipping was included in the deal. I sent off the eCheque this afternoon and returned to find this message:

Maelx wrote:

md02geist wrote:I just checked and you have an unconfirmed paypal address, and the item is not eligible for shipping protection. Unfortunately until you remedy this problem, I cannot allow you to purchase these -- particularly since you are in another country. Very sorry.

Unconfirmed? I must have unconfirmed during my move, unfortunately. Why do I need to confirm my address before you ship the models? I have another, confirmed address you could also ship to, but it's my permanent address in another city.

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I came home to find the paypal transaction has been cancelled.

Most Recently:

md02geist wrote:Yes, your address is unconfirmed by paypal. You need to confirm your address because if you don't, I am not protected by paypal's seller protection policy. Shipping to an unconfirmed address is the easiest, most common way to get ripped off on paypal when you are the seller.

How can you get ripped off if you get the cash up front? I'm confused here. If you'd like I can give you ebay references or anything else to make you feel better about sending to this address, although i am a little confused why it hasn't been confirmed yet since I've had over a dozen ebay auctions ship here already.

You also didn't mention that you were outside of the US -- I can only bite the shipping on lictors if you were domestic, they are so heavy that it will be 5 or 6 bucks just in the US alone. I don't even know what they would be to Ontario, but certainly more.

Sorry I didn't mention I was out of the country. I probably should have up front, but I figured the dollar or two more shipping charge wouldn't be a big deal. You should not assume that I am in the U.S. when accepting a deal. I'm sure if you actually checked the shipping costs you'd find they were less than you thought.

Anyways, too bad this fell through. Good luck getting rid of those.

You need to post all PMs to show the whole details of this trade. It is the rules for posting here.

As far as him not shipping to another country or not shipping to an unconfirmed address, he should have stated this during the negotiations. If he did not then it is his fault. But without you posting all the info, it's hard to tell who is at fault.

George

You have 24 hours to post ALL PMs regarding this deal. Otherwise expect a vacation from the site.

PMS to follow:
Delete messageQuote messageLictors for Paypal
Sent: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:24 pm
From: Maelx
To: md02geist

Hey geist,

I know this is a little late, but do you still have those Lictors for sale? I'd be more than happy to take them off your hands.
Hey Maelx,

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:50 pm
by md02geist

Hey Maelx,

I sure do. Were you interested in both? If so, they'd be 27.50 shipped (I knocked 7-8% off for buying both, and shipping is on me) with a confirmed paypal address. I can ship first thing tomorrow morning.

If you are interested, just send payment to firefighterwall@yahoo.com.


Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:27 am
by Maelx

Hey geist! A few extra questions before we close if you don't mind.

Are they new 4th edition lictors (since last book), or 3rd edition lictors? Do they come with all bits? What kind of condition are they in?

Thanks!

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:15 am
by md02geist

they are the latest release...so they are metal, but they are the awesomely tall ones. Both have been primed black. One has blue armor (carapace on top) and a dark flesh basecoat for his body, the other has blue armor and a bleached bone basecoat for his body. Either would be an easy strip and repaint.

There are not "bits" for lictors, but they do have all their pieces, yes.

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:38 am
by Maelx

Okay sounds good. I'll send you an echeque - it should take a little bit to clear but will clear without a problem.

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:39 am
by md02geist

I have no idea how an echeque works but so long as it's paypal we're all good

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:01 pm
by md02geist

If you still want these lictors, you might want to send out payment soon. I can't hold them forever, you were the first one interested in them but currently not the only one.

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:06 pm
by Maelx

Sorry! Somehow I lost your paypal account email address. I was actually going through to find it just as you sent me this message.

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:56 am
by md02geist

No problem. The lictors are still here, was going to give you until middle of this week. The paypal address is firefighterwall@yahoo.com.

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:28 am
by Maelx

Payment sent - please confirm!

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:00 pm
by md02geist

Got the payment...says it won't clear until the 30th. I will need to wait to ship until funds have cleared, but as soon as they have (and I have shipped) I will notify you.

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:02 pm
by md02geist

I just checked and you have an unconfirmed paypal address, and the item is not eligible for shipping protection. Unfortunately until you remedy this problem, I cannot allow you to purchase these -- particularly since you are in another country. Very sorry.

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:06 pm
by Maelx

md02geist wrote:
I just checked and you have an unconfirmed paypal address, and the item is not eligible for shipping protection. Unfortunately until you remedy this problem, I cannot allow you to purchase these -- particularly since you are in another country. Very sorry.

Unconfirmed? I must have unconfirmed during my move, unfortunately. Why do I need to confirm my address before you ship the models? I have another, confirmed address you could also ship to, but it's my permanent address in another city.

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:44 pm
by md02geist

Yes, your address is unconfirmed by paypal. You need to confirm your address because if you don't, I am not protected by paypal's seller protection policy. Shipping to an unconfirmed address is the easiest, most common way to get ripped off on paypal when you are the seller.

You also didn't mention that you were outside of the US -- I can only bite the shipping on lictors if you were domestic, they are so heavy that it will be 5 or 6 bucks just in the US alone. I don't even know what they would be to Ontario, but certainly more.

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:07 pm
by Maelx

md02geist wrote:
Yes, your address is unconfirmed by paypal. You need to confirm your address because if you don't, I am not protected by paypal's seller protection policy. Shipping to an unconfirmed address is the easiest, most common way to get ripped off on paypal when you are the seller.

How can you get ripped off if you get the cash up front? I'm confused here. If you'd like I can give you ebay references or anything else to make you feel better about sending to this address, although i am a little confused why it hasn't been confirmed yet since I've had over a dozen ebay auctions ship here already.


You also didn't mention that you were outside of the US -- I can only bite the shipping on lictors if you were domestic, they are so heavy that it will be 5 or 6 bucks just in the US alone. I don't even know what they would be to Ontario, but certainly more.

Sorry I didn't mention I was out of the country. I probably should have up front, but I figured the dollar or two more shipping charge wouldn't be a big deal. I'm sure if you actually checked the shipping costs rather than assuming you'd find they were less than you thought.

Anyways, too bad this fell through. Good luck getting rid of those.

Sent: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:09 pm
From: md02geist
To: Maelx
are you serious? A bad trade reference? Wow man you're a real prick.

It states CLEARLY in my auction that a paypal confirmed address is required. It's your own damn fault this fell through, and you blame me? Real douche move.

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470

The rules for selling/trading are pretty clear:

Rule 4a: You are also responsible for accurately describing all items in your ad.
That includes version, condition, assembly status, converted or not, painted or not, any missing pieces and any other information you think might be helpful. Failure to do so may result in the other party filing a Backout Trader or Bad Trader report against you.

While this rule specifically refers to the items in your ad, the emboldened and underlined portion is generic enough that it covers this situation.
As you said yourself, you should have been upfront about your location. How would you have felt if you were selling something and paying for shipping, only to discover that your trade partner was in Italy?

You also CLEARLY violated something he stated early, that he only ships to CONFIRMED addresses. it doesn't matter if 5, 50 or 500 ebay sellers have shipped to the same, unconfirmed address. he's not covered by the sellers insurance if he does, and that matters to him.

To me -and I will converse with other staff before we make a decision- your reference for him is clearly undeserved. I also think it is borderline ITL intimidation, since it seems you left the reference because you were ticked that he did something you didn't like... though you clearly violated his plainly stated rules.

I find the way you ended the trade, on almost a genial tone, then followed up with a surprise negative to be dishonorable and highly annoying.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:I find the way you ended the trade, on almost a genial tone, then followed up with a surprise negative to be dishonorable and highly annoying.

When the OP wrote "Anyways, too bad this fell through. Good luck getting rid of those.", I read that as sarcastic and patronizing (I oughta know):

"Anyways, too bad (for *you*) this fell through (through none of *my* fault). Good luck (Ha!) getting rid of those (at any price)."

If the OP wanted to close on a positive or neutral note, it would be more like:

"Anyways, sorry that we couldn't work things out. Good luck in finding another buyer - maybe we can trade later."

I'm locking this. Maelx and md02geist will be informed of the staff's decision when it is reached. If either of you come up with new info contact me or an admin.

MaelX and md02geist,
Both negatives references will stay. MaelX left his under the perception that md02geist backed out on the deal due to the fact that MaelX was in another country. md02geist left his negative based on the fact that MaelX didn't pay attention to his trade rule of using a "confirmed paypal address".

The biggest problem you both had in this experience was a lack of clear communication. If md02geist had not mentioned he "couldn't bite that bullet, and cover the Canada shipping" and based his whole backout on the "unconfirmed paypal address", then there would have been no problem. On the opposite side, if MaelX had just provided a "confirmed paypal address" when asked instead of arguing the point, then everything could have proceeded smoothly. Both of you made mistakes and now you have the consequences of those mistakes.

Remember in the future that references are left based on a trader's trading experience. If a trader believes he had a bad trading experience, then he may leave a bad trade ref. If a trader believes he had a good trading experience, then he may leave a good trade ref. Also, do not be too hasty about leaving a negative reference. They are easy to give, but harder to take back.

You both may appeal this to Linrandir. You have 30 days to appeal it from the date of this PM. Make sure you include all relevant information when you do so, and do not seem argumentative with Linrandir. Present the facts and only the facts, because that is what he will base his judgment on.

I have been asked by md02geist that users not bother him with PMs about this matter. I'm going to extend that to MaelX too. Do not bother them with your opinions or thoughts on the matter.