Backout - Deaddeerguts

They're not Bad Traders per se but they are REALLY annoying. Tell us about them here. READ THE RULES.

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mdjones607 ( 190 )
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Backout - Deaddeerguts

Post by mdjones607 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:17 am

I struck up a deal with Jesse Harris AKA deaddeerguts to trade some of my Khador for some of his Retribution of Scryah. I had asked him if he was alright splitting the lot, he said yes and asked if I had Khador for trade. First he said he didn't want anything on my list and offered to sell the models. When I asked for a price, he instead proposed a trade. We worked on the details and he agreed to my amended trade offer. At that point I went to work getting his models ready for him.

A day and a half after the arrangement he wrote me saying that his other trade partner fell through and that he was therefore not willing to trade with me and be left with some models. I told him that I had already started what we had agreed upon and that it wouldn't be acceptable to back out. I offered to increase the trade so he wouldn't be left with what his other trade partner was going to take. He came back saying that he would not be trading, and that I could go ahead and leave negative feedback if I wanted to. He makes several references in his refusal PMs to things he thinks he states in the past (such as needing to wait on the other trade, and that he wasn't comfortable with our trade), of which I do not see evidence of in those messages.

I gave him several chances to make good on the trade. His attitude has been essentially "go ahead and leave negative feedback, what do I care". I'm mad, maybe I shouldn't be this mad, but I am. Losing out on another trade does not null and void his obligation to me. He doesn't care that I spent money to make this trade happen. Was it a ton of cash, no. Is it the end of the world that I stripped the models for him, no. Is it his problem that I split my Khador off to other traders knowing that he and I had a deal, no. However, the principles of this site are good faith, honesty, and keeping your word. I wouldn't be this mad if he didn't have a crappy attitude about the whole thing. He didn't try to salvage our trade, he didn't start off with an apology (though he does make two, I believe the second to be purely sarcastic). At this point I have not posted negative feedback on him, if a mod or admin would tell me if doing such is appropriate in this case I would appreciate it.

Our conversation is below. All of his messages have been set to blue font:

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Re: H: Retribution, W: Khador, $$$
Sent: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:02 pm
by mdjones607

Are you willing to split this up at all or does it need to go as one lot?

Subject: H: Retribution, W: Khador, $$$

deaddeerguts wrote:
Here is a list of stuff I have from Retribution:

plastic Kaelyssa
Ravyn
Manticore
Griffon
Chimera
10x Mage Hunter Strike Force + UA
Arcanist
Mage Hunter Assassin
Ghost Sniper

Everything is built, primed and at least partially painted with cards. Looking for retail-for-retail trades (Khador preferred, but will consider other Warmachine or Hordes offers), or $100 shipped. MSRP is $140.
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Sent: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:12 pm
by deaddeerguts

That depends on what you are looking for. Do you have Khador to trade?

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Sent: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:13 pm
by mdjones607

Yes, I can send you a list of what I have left tonight.

Thanks
Matt
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Sent: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:51 pm
by mdjones607

Yes, actually you and I once tried working out a deal when you were just starting out Khador. Unfortunately, I didn't have a full army then, and of course it is even more diminished now. Ok, my Khador list as it stands:

Man-o-War Shock Troopers Max(plastic)

All metal with no cards:
4 Man-o-War Shock troopers (would be 5, the old Drakhun kit required a trooper to make)
Man-O-war Drakhun
3 Widowmakers
Greylord Ternion
Winterguard Mortar
Classic Jug
Classic Irusk

What I would be interested in:

plastic Kaelyssa
Griffon
Arcanist


If there is any interest at all, let me know and let me know what you'd want to trade for what I have. I would also be willing to work out a paypal deal if you'd prefer.

Thank you
Matt
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Sent: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:15 pm
by deaddeerguts

I don't quite need any of your Khador at the moment, but I might be willing to sell these models to you. I'm waiting to hear back on a trade, but he doesn't want the Griffon or Kaelyssa.

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Sent: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:21 pm
by mdjones607

Thats fine. How much are you looking to get?
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Sent: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:37 pm
by deaddeerguts

So why only 3 widowmakers? If it was a full unit, I'd jump on it. Would you consider the classic Juggy for Kaelyssa, an Arcanist and a Mage Hunter Assassin? Or maybe just those 3 models for your widowmakers, and I could order an extra one from the PP store. Whichever would work for you.


The truth is, I wasn't sure if I was going to like RoS, and I've decided I just don't. I don't really "get" them. It was pretty much how I felt playing Cygnar actually. My heart has always beat for the motherland, so I'd like to make a real go of building my army back up. And sorry for the confusion. I actually talked to another guy who wanted the Griffon as well and had pretty much the same stuff you did, so I almost double-dealt. BIIIIIIG Bartertown no-no.

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Sent: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:07 pm
by mdjones607

Back when I was first getting into the game and thought Khador was tons of big stompy jacks, I had a deal with a khador player. When he mailed the stuff, the box had a hole with no tape. I ended up getting shorted on that model and a few bits from the way he packed it. He also didn't include the cards, which kinda stunk. I am placing a PP bits order this weekend, if you wanted to wait for the order to come in, I could order the missing model and get cards for anything you're looking at.

Do you still have the Griffon, or did he go to the other B-towner?

Actually, what do you have left? I could order the cards for the widow makers and juggy, and order the widowmaker and trade you both if we could work something out. Otherwise, I would trade either the Juggy or the Widowmakers for the three models you propose, and if you were patient I would be willing to make which ever option you chose whole by getting the card, or the card and the replacement model.

Thanks
Matt
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Sent: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:30 pm
by deaddeerguts

Yeah, I was going to trade him the Griffon, MHSF+UA and the Ghost Sniper for a Berserker, Greylord Ternion and classic Irusk. I really don't care too much what I get, as long as it matches up retail or points-wise.

My wishlist for Khador:
Irusk, Old Witch, or maybe another caster.
Behemoth
Spriggan
Berserker or Juggernaut
the clamjacks
any other jacks.

as far as units, I'm looking at:
Widowmakers (a must for me and Khador)
WGI
Greylords Ternion
MoW units and Battle Mechaniks
IFP
any others.


I was a Khador player for quite a while, and I always play stingy with my focus, so I never thought of Khador as being a jack faction. My RoS listed is 2 casters and about 28pts, so that's what I would ideally get out of trading it away. I like the stuff you have listed, and I could probably take a bit of a hit and order the parts and cards from PP, since I need to order some parts/cards for my Circle army anyway.

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Sent: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:45 pm
by mdjones607

Would you do this:

Kaelyssa, Chimera, an Arcanist and a Mage Hunter Assassin

for:

Classic Juggy, Widowmakers (I will order both cards and the 4th widowmaker) this would delay shipping slightly so I can ship them to you complete.

Only change is adding the Chimera, I don't have one, don't know if I'll ever use it, but it would be nice to have.

Thanks
Matt
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Sent: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:58 pm
by deaddeerguts

Well yeah, I think that would be just fine actually. I can definitely wait for the parts/cards. Do you want stuff painted or stripped? I mostly got these guys for painting anyway.

Jesse Harris
4729 Autumn Ridge Dr
Columbus, IN 47203


Just keep me informed, and I will make sure to hold these models.

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Sent: Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:22 pm
by mdjones607

If you're willing to strip them, I will do the same for these if you want. Just be careful with stripping, Acetone would destroy the plastic caster, and you can't leave PP metal minis in simple green too long. I made the mistake of leaving some PP metal minis in simple green for a couple of days, and wow did it make the metal brittle and tarnished. The ones that were in for 24hrs didn't have a problem, I'll never make the mistake of going longer than that again. I had done that before with GW minis, and it didn't cause any problems.

My shipping address is:

Matt Jones
206 Fairdale Ave
Syracuse, NY 13207

Thanks!
Matt
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Sent: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:30 pm
by deaddeerguts

No worries Matt! I use Fabuloso! It's slower than Simple Green, so I typically leave them overnight in that, then scrub and give the metals a quick dip in Acetone to get the rest off. PP plastics are another beast entirely (I've had good luck with Fabuloso, then a little 75% isopropyl to clean up the rest).

I probably won't ship for a while, so no rush.

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Sent: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:55 pm
by mdjones607

I haven't tried Fabuloso before. Can you find that in Target or Walmart? I've had great results with simple green, but it isn't as friendly with the PP stuff, so I could use a nice alternative.

Thanks
Matt
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Sent: Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:30 am
by deaddeerguts

Sorry to say, but I've done some thinking and I am going to hold onto my RoS dudes for now. I can't get a firm commitment on the other half of the lot, and I'd hate to end up with a hobbled force (even if it means getting a decent Khador starter again).

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Sent: Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:26 pm
by mdjones607

Backing out now would not be alright. I've already started stripping your minis and went through the process of ordering what was missing. I get where you're coming from, but it isn't my fault that your other trade partner fell through and I shouldn't be left holding the bag. If it makes things easier for you, I would be ok with increasing the trade to get more khador for your Ret. I also have some legion models, some circle, and menoth if you could use any of those. You are welcome to anything that I have left in Khador:

Man-o-War Shock Troopers Max(plastic)

All metal with no cards:
4 Man-o-War Shock troopers (would be 5, the old Drakhun kit required a trooper to make)
Man-O-war Drakhun
3 Widowmakers (4 widowmakes coming with card, part of our trade)
Classic Jug (coming with card, part of our trade)
Classic Irusk

If you want to see what I have available for the other three armies, let me know. If you are indeed unwilling to fulfill our agreement and are planning on leaving me holding the bag, than I need to know that as well.

Thank you
Matt
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Sent: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:50 pm
by deaddeerguts

I told you there was no rush, and that I wasn't going to strip anything until I had it all worked out. Leave me bad feedback if that's what you need to do, I'm just not comfortable with the deal as it is and I don't want to end up with two or three pieces that no one wants. I'm also not able to move the rest of it because my other trader is dragging his feet about it and I just don't have the energy to mess with it.

I'm fine with getting bad feedback. I should probably quit this site anyway.

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Sent: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:03 pm
by mdjones607

That is a bad attitude to take. I wouldn't stiff someone and it isn't right that you don't mind doing it to me. Once a deal is set, you are obligated to follow through. What am I going to do with my minis and the time and money used to complete my end of our obligation?

Is that sinply not your problem? You're ok with that?

That isn't a moral way to treat others.
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Sent: Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:28 pm
by deaddeerguts

No, I'm just saying I wasn't comfortable with the deal, I'm not comfortable with the deal now, and I would probably look back and be pissed off about it. It doesn't work for me. I am not sending you stuff, and I'm sorry that it was inconvenient to you.

Honestly, you would have stripped the models, ordered the cards and extra bitss no matter what I said. I didn't want you to do that at all, since I already have to order stuff from PP. It may be a "bad attitude" to take, but it's better for me to have you be mad at me (and know that you will probably still find a trade).

I seriously thought we were putting our deal off for a few days or so, since we agreed there was no rush, and I said I wanted to see what my other trade was going to want first.

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Sent: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:20 pm
by mdjones607

No where in this message chain did you say you wanted to hold off, or that you needed to wait for your other trade. No where in our communication did you indicate that you were not comfortable with the trade you proposed, I counter offered, and you agreed. In fact, the original offer was made by you in your message on 4/18/14 at 1:37PM:
So why only 3 widowmakers? If it was a full unit, I'd jump on it. Would you consider the classic Juggy for Kaelyssa, an Arcanist and a Mage Hunter Assassin? Or maybe just those 3 models for your widowmakers, and I could order an extra one from the PP store. Whichever would work for you.


We each agreed on a trade, what you wanted of mine, and what I wanted of yours. We exchanged shipping addresses, and you agreed to wait for the cards and model to come in. Your comment on what I would have done without our trade is a load of crap. Dig back in your e-mail history, back when you first messaged me back on 8/27/13 to work out a different trade, you wanted to trade your legion for my khador. A little quote from my original posting:
Haves:


Warmachine:


I would prefer not to break these up, but would consider offers to do so. None of these have their cards. The number after each model is the retail if ordered from Privateer.

Khador

Casters
Classic Irusk 10
Sorscha 8

Warjacks
Kodiak 30
Classic Juggernaut 30
Classic Destroyer 30

Units
4 Metal Shock Troopers 68
3 Widowmakers 15
4 Battle Mecaniks 18.67
Winter Guard Mortar 20
Greylord Ternion 18
5 Iron Fang Pikemen 42.50
Iron Fang Officer & Standard UA 20

Solos
Darkhun Dragoon 45
Kovnik 20

Retail $375.17

Asking $150 shipped
Yeah, I didn't have the cards or the figure then. I went through the steps of getting those items for OUR TRADE that you agreed upon in your message to me on 4/18/14 at 2:58PM. I split my Khador up further, knowing that I had this deal with you (hence there being fewer models on the last list I sent you trying to help you by increasing the trade). I'm not going to argue with you, I've tried reasoning with you, and tried getting you to empathize with the situation you're putting me in. What you're doing is against the code of conduct for this site. You're not backing out because of some life trauma, theft, or act of god. Any of those and you would have my sympathy. You're backing out because you changed your mind. As a courtesy, I'll give you one last chance to do the right thing and follow through on our agreement. If you choose not to, or I do not hear back within 24hrs, I will be making a post in the backout section and negative feedback will follow shortly after that post assuming a mod or admin does not state otherwise.

Sincerely,
Matt
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Sent: Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:37 pm
by deaddeerguts

No worries. I am not sending you anyrhing, and I am sorry you put models in simple green.
I follow the Golden Rule. Please do the same.
When shipping, please pack items in the same manner you would want them packed when receiving them.
If anything is missing or broken, please state so prior to finalizing a deal.

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MagickalMemories ( 754 )
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Re: Backout - Deaddeerguts

Post by MagickalMemories » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:12 pm

[q]I told you there was no rush, and that I wasn't going to strip anything until I had it all worked out.[/q]

The emboldened part is simply untrue.

[q]Honestly, you would have stripped the models, ordered the cards and extra bitss no matter what I said.[/q]

I wish *I* had psychic powers so that *I* always knew what other people were and weren't going to do.

[q]I seriously thought we were putting our deal off for a few days or so, since we agreed there was no rush, and I said I wanted to see what my other trade was going to want first.[/q]

The emboldened part also is simply untrue.


Per Bartertown rules, Backouts are ABSOLUTELY valid reasons for leaving a negative reference.
Basically, once a trade is completely agreed upon, it's eligible for references.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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mdjones607 ( 190 )
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Re: Backout - Deaddeerguts

Post by mdjones607 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:08 pm

Thank you for looking at that. It is good to have another perspective, and to know that I wasn't off for being angry. I just don't get how some people don't care when they waste someone else time and money. I have posted the feedback so that others will know to be careful when making trade agreements.

Thank you
Matt
I follow the Golden Rule. Please do the same.
When shipping, please pack items in the same manner you would want them packed when receiving them.
If anything is missing or broken, please state so prior to finalizing a deal.

deaddeerguts ( 14 )
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Re: Backout - Deaddeerguts

Post by deaddeerguts » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:16 pm

Yeah, I'm not saying I did the right thing at all. After going back and reading stuff again, I realized that I was confused and thought I was agreeing to the trade I had been waiting on.

I am really sorry to mdjones. The dude had every right to be mad at me and post this. I know I've threatened to file backout reports on people before for the very same behavior I exhibited, so I can't blame him there. This is the first deal I've had go sour that was completely my fault.

deaddeerguts ( 14 )
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Re: Backout - Deaddeerguts

Post by deaddeerguts » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:18 pm

The confusion came from another trade I was considering and the person had almost the exact same list of stuff to trade, but wanted completely different stuff off of my list. He was missing pieces too, and I insisted on ordering parts myself since I needed to for a different army anyway.

Coulda just remembered the usernames. Seriously.

deaddeerguts ( 14 )
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Re: Backout - Deaddeerguts

Post by deaddeerguts » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:19 pm

Can I get a mod to remove my full name from this post? It's the only thing I would like to amend.

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Sturm2k ( 202 )
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Re: Backout - Deaddeerguts

Post by Sturm2k » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:38 pm

Thank you for posting this. I have deleted a trade request, thank you.
LOWEST feedback pays / ships first. No exceptions even for myself. You have to earn trust on this site. Feedback is everything.
I packaged my models in Bubble wrap. I expect the same. So please package up the stuff nicely!
I never ask for something that I would not do myself.


People who owe me Refs :( - Rayjbaker -

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MagickalMemories ( 754 )
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Re: Backout - Deaddeerguts

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:59 pm

deaddeerguts wrote:Can I get a mod to remove my full name from this post? It's the only thing I would like to amend.
No. Sorry.
That is information we do not remove. Only phone numbers and email addresses are ever removed.

Your full name is already present in your references, anyway.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

deaddeerguts ( 14 )
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Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: Backout - Deaddeerguts

Post by deaddeerguts » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:28 pm

Okay. Peace out BT.

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tordeck ( 222 )
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Re: Backout - Deaddeerguts

Post by tordeck » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:09 pm

Am I the only one that noticed in his Refs there are two completely different real names listed?
People who I left positive refs for and have not yet given me one - zekemck, ericismyname, LionFighterX, starship trooper, ekessler507, crimson fist, quinthalas, zaorish, nerdcore7863, webhead76, mightyspacepope, Notsure3k, Tionas

People who owe me refs and therefor I have not given one - eddie, apoc21, redfinger, AgeOfEgos, Wiktor23

Buying or Trading, Lower Rating Ships First
I Trade within the United States only

The Dark City

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MagickalMemories ( 754 )
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Re: Backout - Deaddeerguts

Post by MagickalMemories » Thu May 01, 2014 3:37 am

Nope. You're not.
That's not a huge issue, though. Unless the 2nd name appears a lot, it's not something we make a big deal about, as we're all human and those mistakes have been known to have been made.

On another note, deaddeerguts is now banned. When I refused to remove his name, he PMed me to have his account deleted. I explained (POLITELY!) that we don't do that/ he'd just have to stop using the account. I also offered to put the account on the banlist so it doesn't get hacked on him.

I guess he didn't like that response, because he immaturely posted a spammy post in the forums.

That kind of asshattery doesn't sit well with me, so I banned him.

For his sake, I hope future potential employers don't Google his name and see this thread. The schadenfreude prone side of me, though...

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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