Please Remove

[Bori82]

Please Remove

[pretre]

Step one: Familiarize yourself with the rules viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470

Step two: What they are listing are not really rules, per se. Those are the commonly accepted guidelines that a lot of people use and you are perfectly within your right not to ship before payment. They are also perfectly within their right to choose not to trade with you because of it.

[MagickalMemories]

Exactly.

1) Whomever told you that those are the rules needs an education. Tell him they are not "the rules." Link them to this thread.
2) Understand that higher rated traders (like pretre and myself, for example) will expect you, as an unproven trader, to ship first. Take a person's rating and divide by two. In general, this is the # of successful trades they have had (also click on the # to see their feedback & ensure they don't have any negatives [in red]). People with more trades are less likely to pull something, as they're invested in the site and their reputation... also, by the time they hit that point, they know that the moderating staff can be like rabid dogs when hunting down scammers.
Please, understand that this doesn't mean we ASSUME the worst of you.
3) Don't presume that PayPal protects the buyer. That is not true. Checking out the Bad Trader forum will show you plenty of examples of that.

NEVER feel pressured to ship first. if you don't want to, then don't. Just keep in mind that this WILL limit your trade options.

Take care.


Eric

[starslayer]

Hello, im new to B-Town and just listed some Dystopian stuff for sale. Since I dont have feedback a buyer wants me to ship before I receive payment on PayPal. He says those are the rules... Is this true?

PayPal secures the buyer that if the items dont arrive he can claim a refund.

Let me know because 2 people have requested that from me but it doesnt make sense to me...

Paypal is not full proof, that is a fallacy.

There are members that have been here years, with hundreds of trades under their belt. That seems like a good bet. Look at it from their view: sending money to a new member with 0 trades. You have to start somewhere. Pick a member with a solid reputation.

You can demand payment first, but that will limit your potential buyers.

Good luck.

[pretre]

Yeah, definitely this. I can tell you that it is worth it to start somewhere and get a good rep at BT. Pick someone with a good rep and give them the benefit of the doubt. Getting that first feedback is a big deal.

[Bori82]

OK the feedback I received is well noted. Thanks to all who replied.I figured I had to start somewhere. I have been trading with Ebay for so long that it's a bit scary to send an item without payment. But i'll take a look at seller ratings an make an educated decision when to sell.

Thanks,

-Joel

[jason1977]

If I may add something:

Dont feel that full payment is needed. Perhaps splitting the cost. Half now and half upon reciept may be a way to go.

[Bahamut_Dragonlord]

To add onto jason1977's comment, you can also split the shipment, maybe send half, then get some payment, then send the rest and get the rest of the payment. It is really all about finding a comfortable way to make those first trades to establish yourself.

As others have said, when I was new I looked to trade with more established people at first (you see a lot of BTR's are low rating to low rating trades).

[kturock]

I have a post called how to ship to a lower buyer.
Basiclly, you're shipping COD. The buyer pays USPS cash and they mail you a money order.
There's a fee, but he doesn't receive the box without paying. Now if the box doesn't have the correct items or are damaged, that's different.
Damaged should be covered by insurance. Wrong items are covered under mail fraud.

[Wag-A-Tail]

I see I have no understanding either. My understanding is that a newbie pays first and ships first. It is also my understanding that if you are buying, not trading, the buyer, newbie or otherwise, pays first. That person has to protect himself by paypal, money orders, etc. I think, no one would insist on the seller to send without receiving payment first. The only exception might be when we are talking about lots and lots of money, but if I were the seller I would be inclined to forego the sale.

[starslayer]

I see I have no understanding either. My understanding is that a newbie pays first and ships first. It is also my understanding that if you are buying, not trading, the buyer, newbie or otherwise, pays first. That person has to protect himself by paypal, money orders, etc. I think, no one would insist on the seller to send without receiving payment first. The only exception might be when we are talking about lots and lots of money, but if I were the seller I would be inclined to forego the sale.

Good luck with that.

You have been a member here a few months, no trades. Why would I send you $$$ first? Whats to prevent you from leaving the site?
Paypal is no guarantee- that's a myth. You can take the $$$ out of the account. They cant recover $$ that isn't there. People don't want to go through the hassle of Paypal claim either.

That's why they choose traders with a proven record. Years here & many good trades. They have a reputation on the line. What do you have?

You can choose any trade/selling rules you like. You will just limit the people who will deal with you.

Please explain why a long time proven trader on this site would buy - lets say some figures worth $200 from you & pay first?? An unproven trader with 0 refs.

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

I see I have no understanding either. My understanding is that a newbie pays first and ships first.

As stated above, and many times on many threads, this is a convention. A good one, but not a rule.

It is also my understanding that if you are buying, not trading, the buyer, newbie or otherwise, pays first.

This is in fact not conventional, though various traders, virtually always low level, continue to lobby for it to become conventional.

That person has to protect himself by paypal, money orders, etc. I think, no one would insist on the seller to send without receiving payment first.

I would, and often do. PayPal can be dodgy, at times, and further, it's a bother.

If I wouldn't send you $100 worth of figs, why would I send you $100?

[Sinjin]

That person has to protect himself by paypal

This is a huge fallacy. Paypal offers very little if any real protection. 1st, Paypal has to side with you (I've personally had Paypal rule against me when someone didn't ship what I paid for...don't know what they told them, but it worked). 2nd, Paypal doesn't give you your money back, what they do is take your funds back from the other parties account. Well, if that account is empty then you're SOL. So all someone has to do is empty their Paypal account before you file the claim and you'll never see a dime.

spend a few minutes going through the Bad Trader Reports and you'll quickly learn that Paypals protection is worth what you pay for it.

PLUS..even if Paypal's protection was legit why should I send first? I'm an established trader here with a proven track record. Why does what you receive for your models change anything for you? You're not a store. This is a TRADING site, and the fact that I'm TRADING you money as opposed to models for your models shouldn't really change anything...except on my end because I need to be a little more careful that I'm not getting scammed. I mean think about it, is someone more likely to try to scam you out of little plastic dolls...or cold hard cash?

So like others have said... you are totally free to conduct trades here in any manner you like. Require that your trade partner wear a pink tutu on the way to the post office if you're into that sort of thing, nobody will stop you... they just won't trade with you.

-Jeff

EDIT:

If I wouldn't send you $100 worth of figs, why would I send you $100?

I love it. That has to be the most succinct way of putting it that I've seen.

[starslayer]

I love the newbie mentality.
To have zero trades & joined two months ago , then expect the same treatment as someone who has been here several years with 100+ successful trades.
Then wonder why no proven trader will deal with them. Next they deal with another new trader & get burned. Their next statement will be "Bartertown sucks."

If I was new I would deal with well-established proven traders. That's the way to build up your refs here.

[MagickalMemories]

This is a huge fallacy. Paypal offers very little if any real protection. 1st, Paypal has to side with you (I've personally had Paypal rule against me when someone didn't ship what I paid for...don't know what they told them, but it worked). 2nd, Paypal doesn't give you your money back, what they do is take your funds back from the other parties account. Well, if that account is empty then you're SOL. So all someone has to do is empty their Paypal account before you file the claim and you'll never see a dime.

A lot of people share the above opinion but don't realize that they are not exactly correct.
I haven't looked recently but, at the time that I opened my account, I had to agree that I would allow PayPal to debit my attached accounts for any negative amounts in my account.
Let's go with that idea a moment...
You pay me. I spend the money. I don't send.
You file with PayPal and they side with you.
At this point PayPal can give you the money, throw my account into a negative balance, and debit the checking account which is attached to my PayPal account, per their rules.
The thing is that PayPal DOESN'T do that. It's more work for them.
I have heard of people, in the past, calling PayPal and getting them to do what I outlined above when the person's account didn't have the available funds.

This does not mean that, in any way, I support the "Buyers should pay first because PayPal protects them" p.o.v. I don't.
It just means that the people who make statements like the one quoted above are not necessarily correct.

Their next statement will be "Bartertown sucks."

Not pointing you out, specifically. Quoting you for the above line.
A few comments in this thread, towards Wag-A-Tail are... less than kind. If the guy comes on here and gives his opinion, only to be slammed for being an ignorant newbie... he's just as likely to make that same statement.
Whether your ref score is 2 or 2000, you're free to state your opinions here (respectfully). If you disagree with someone's opinion, please disagree respectfully.

Thanks.

Eric