Assumptions, Details, and Feedback

[Budikah]

This is me merely doing a bit of venting and wanting to hear some other opinions...

I recently joined Bartertown and I've had a pretty good time trading Warmahordes figures thusfar. The thing is, I've apparently made some *edit* assumptions - that when you list a Warmahordes figure that it comes with it's card unless otherwise noted. That it comes unbroken, unless otherwise noted.

To keep my story short - it just comes down to me learning the lesson to be *edit* about getting pictures and a full listing of what will be shipped in the agreement. Many of these traders who have shipped me items without cards have great feedback and seem to be upstanding ladies and gentlemen - is it really foolish of me to assume that somebody is going to list any oddities with the item they are selling? When you buy a model do you expect the complete model as it came from the merchant? Where is the bottom line for what is missing.

That said - is it okay to note that in the feedback - which is otherwise overwhelmingly good. Am I just a fool for not getting every nitty gritty detail?

[k-chan]

Pretty much just pay attention to what is listed on their post. Never assume that the models come with cards, as I found a large portion of the time they don't, and somewhere it should be listed what condition the models you are buying are in, examples being NIB, Painted, Primed, Built. Models shouldn't be broken unless otherwise stated though.

[3eland]

Well, per Bartertown rules, all listing must be complete and accurate. So, if they put up a list of Warmahorde models (let's say a max Cryx Bane unit), unless they say no cards or missing shields then it would mean that unit is 100% full and includes everything out of the box. If they do not contact you before the trade and tell you it's not all complete (or list it in their lists) then it's a violation of the rules. Therefore, whenever I see a list and it just has the unit/model/whatever, it is in my belief everything is there BUT I usually ask them any ways. I never finish a deal until I am 100% completely positive I'm getting what I want, whether it means pictures, list, etc. I also then clarify the deal before finalizing it in case I missed something.

That being said, it is okay to leave feedback listing everything to do with the trade, that's a part of why it's there!

EDIT: If more people read the rules, we would have less confusion and headaches!!!!!

[Bahamut_Dragonlord]

I have ran into this a few times as well. A couple of time people I traded with were outright rude when I asked about cards, with one going as far as to state that it was a ridiculous scheme by Privateer Press to force as to spend more money. Whether that was true or not was not really relevant, but that was the point where I gave up trying to apply reason.

The essential argument is whether we believe the card is a standard and inclusive part of the model. Particularly with the release of WarRoom, many people no longer utilize the cards and can't be bothered to keep track of them. Personally, I use the cards and consider a model that does not come with a card basically useless until I replace the card.

At the end of the day, I suggest developing a standard blurb for wrapping up your trades. If you are dealing in Warmahordes always bring up the cards before making the deal and in any dealings I always try to get pictures of models.

[Budikah]

Well, per Bartertown rules, all listing must be complete and accurate. So, if they put up a list of Warmahorde models (let's say a max Cryx Bane unit), unless they say no cards or missing shields then it would mean that unit is 100% full and includes everything out of the box.

This is the part that gets me right here. I assume unless otherwise noted that these things come complete and any deviation from the norm will be listed. I had one guy trade me some models with half the unit missing shoulderpads on one side - when I asked him if he had them he claimed he got them in a trade that way. I had to keep pressuring him and he finally sent me the balance of the replacement parts on PayPal but not before giving me a snarky attitude about it - "What do you expect me to just pay for them now?"

The essential argument is whether we believe the card is a standard and inclusive part of the model. Particularly with the release of WarRoom, many people no longer utilize the cards and can't be bothered to keep track of them.

I would still assume they are essential. Warmahordes models are useless in the game without the applicable stat card that comes with every single model they sell. WarRoom is an alternative but as of now it is slow, a bit clunky, and unreliable. If the WarRoom app crashes then by official Privateer Press rules you forfeit the match as all of your damage tracking is gone. There is a good reason you don't see anybody at an official event using the WarRoom app - it's totally useless if you are playing timed turns/deathclock (read:every single event) and it still crashes quite often - nevermind that unless your phone is plugged in it is NOT going to last long enough to be used for a full Steamroller event.


Either way, I'll list these things in the feedback in as non-hostile a way as possible. I'm going to come up with a standard text blurb to just copy and paste because this is going to be the second time that I've had to argue with people about including cards and it is honestly becoming a bit frustrating to do a trade of equal value where I include cards to find out that after the fact I have to order $15 dollars worth of cards from Privateer Press to use the models included.

[porkuslime]

I assume unless otherwise noted that these things come complete and any deviation from the norm will be listed.

My personal attitude and thinking is actually the opposite.

I assume the model would come with NOTHING beyond what was listed, and ask for clarification.

(For example).. I have 2 Tau Crisis Suits for sale.

If I list them as
2 Tau Crisis Suits

You would think that they are complete, and might be still in box... because I gave NO information other than the unit .

When they show up at your door.. they are assembled, primed black, and have no weapons. *I* have listed things correctly in the literal sense of the word.. which is why the rules state condition is important, as 3eland states..

Warmachine is a bit more fluid though. The cards CAN be very important and really should not be assumed about..

[pretre]

Always ask for pictures and condition, in my opinion. I always try to make sure I am clear in my listings and provide pictures for everything. I ask for pictures even for weird stuff, just to make sure I know what's going on.

[luxion]

Don't assume. Doesn't hurt to ask.

Cards change, as well as the contents of the "Faction Decks". I still have NIB stuff with the B&W cards that I sell. I cannibalize my purchased Faction decks to sell, but I run into the problem of "1 unit card, 2 units being sold". As a long-time Warmahordes player and seller, I "forget" which cards are where and make mislist my items. However, in my case, I also catch these errors prior to shipping and inform the buyer.

So, would you feel wronged if a seller had sold you a "new-in-box" Warmachine unit that came with the outdated b&w stat card?

Try to work out the errors/problems before leaving feedback. In my opinion, problem-resolution is part of a trader's feedback!

[MagickalMemories]

You should ALWAYS list EXACTLY what you are offering and you shoul NEVER presume the other guy is doing it.
The rules ARE on the side of the guy who is clear and NOT on the side of the guy who is vague.

Eric