Bartertown.com

After a sleepless night of self-flagellation, I thought I'd give the Bartertown community their chance to join in.  This is longish and ends in two questions I would appreciate your well considered opinions on.

The thing is I think I might be a douche.  Here is the situation (condensed and without names/usernames).  On April 4 I saw a sizable lot of minis that I was interested in for $xxx. OBO.  Seller stated he wanted a quick sale and mentioned his proximity to a post office.  Not being one to waste an "OBO" I offered $xxx. - 25., which he accepted the next day.  I asked him to invoice me when he got the shipping details, and began waiting. And waiting.  On the third day I sent out another PM, according to the seller's response, the minis had been held by a third party, and he was not in the continental united states, but I could expect an invoice soon.  The next day I received a PM that the seller was leaving town and his wife would finish the sale.  I received the invoice on the tenth and paid it immediately, though with some trepidation (xxx.-25.+shipping is alot o money in these trying times!) and requested the tracking number when it became available.

Now, the waiting began, along with the suspicion and anxiety (you sent how much!? to a stranger?! In another country!? Fool!), but I told myself,"Self" I said " it's a Paypal transaction, you are protected"

Two days later, I sent a gentle reminder(PM) that I was waiting for the tracking number.  No response.  Three days after that a less gentle PM that went unread.  Two days after that, a PM and an email to the Paypal address.  This one was more strongly worded (I may have used the phrase "mail fraud") but still polite.  I was still confident that if worse came to worse I would get the money back, Paypal had my back.
 
That last one got a response, he was out of town, but sure his wife sent it Friday, he would call her in the morning. 48 hours later, nothing.

Now in that 48 hours I did something that shook me pretty good - I started reading the BTR forum.  I have a suspicious mind to begin with and reading through some of these I saw a fair amount of complicated situations, third parties and foreign countries.  Then I read that Paypal doesn't do refunds exactly.  They will give you back money from a sellers account, but only if the account has a balance.  And there went my safety net, along with my confidence and any remaining trust.

I left work yesterday, checked my email for updates (none), made dinner, checked again (nope), then went to Paypal and filed a dispute.

This is the first question: was I too hasty?  Am I a douche? I feel like I already know the answers to those.

If you haven't done a Paypal dispute before, part of what it does is freeze some portion of the sellers account (xxx.-25.+shipping I'm guessing). This had an immediate effect.  The seller sent an email, reiterating that his wife had sent it, and stating that I had caused financial problems, as well as family ones.  I've since found out they also have a child.  I'm a father myself, and while a touch neurotic, I'm not hard hearted, and this is really messing with my head.

The seller has since provided a copy of the customs forms (still no tracking number), so now I think he may be legit.  I am extremely sorry about the whole sad situation.  Which leads to...

Question 2: what now?  This is the important one.

If I withdraw the dispute I forfeit the ability to dispute this in the future if there is some other calamity.  The package is still 4-10 days away, which seems a long time to deprive this guys family.  I honestly don't know what to do, your thoughts would be appreciated.

I think what you did was correct. If he had done his side of the deal and kept up his side of the comunication then you would not have had to file with paypal.
And frankly I never like seeing "my wife will mail it since I am out of town" line. Every time he did get back to you it seemed to be a stall tactic.
Even a customs form# won't tell you enough to know if it is even your package.

Has he responded to paypal over the dispute yet? While he might have allready transfered the money you paid, he might still have been getting funds from other people here and not had a chance to take that out. Sounds like you might want to PM the important people with that info so they can start looking into other deals this person might be working on here.

No, I do not believe you did anything wrong. Bad communication, no tracking number, saying he's out of town and that his wife would mail; all of this screams to me of a scam. In fact, there is nothing saying he even has a wife or kid. You are taking him at his word. What you do know is that you have paid monies and not gotten anything in return except empty promises do far. Taking steps to protect yourself is never a bad thing.

If he ends up providing you with adequate proof that he has mailed the items, then I would send the payment. By adequate proof, I mean pictures of receipts, tracking number, etc.

To be clear, the thing he sent me was a scan/pic of a custom form and receipt with my name, address and a weight that is in the ballpark of what I would expect.

I'm not sure I want to contact the moderators, even in a casual way, if this guy has done nothing wrong.

I'm no asking for his name, but since this is an international trade; what country is it coming from?

The seller intimated he was on a US post of some kind in a region of Japan. If I recall from my own days in the service these are generally considered US soil as far as the USPS is concerned. I did check - there is a Navy base there.

they are US soil but are also subject to the other countries customs dept.
That emans it can be restricted on what can be received.
It's not subject to customs fees.

Also since it's military, it gets transported by the military to the US soil. the usps handles it. [also the reverse is true.]

Without taking the other trader's reputation into consideration...

You did right. You protected yourself against things that SCREAM scam.
That doesn't mean he IS scamming you, of course. it just means that scammers have used all of these tactics in the past... even (especially) the pressure about the trouble you caused.

If he's outside the US, on a military base (I presume you're IN the US?), then he cannot get a DC# for your package. The Customs form is about the best he can offer you now.

Even a customs form# won't tell you enough to know if it is even your package.

One hundred percent correct. Even a scan of the image (a) could be photoshopped or (b) might not have actually been sent (could be a fake).

If you retract your claim now, you give up any right to refile it later if the package doesn't arrive or arrives but isn't accurate.



Generic advice aside, PM me. Tell me who this trader is. We have a number of well established and trustworthy traders here from Japan (including staff), and I'll share my unvarnished opinion with you.

Eric

You were certainly not a douche, don't stress over it. This painfully reminds me of my last trade I had on Bartertown a few years ago before I took a long hiatus from trading (here or elsewhere). My situation sounded very similar, his wife was left to complete the deal, etc, etc, etc. Long story short, the deal was never completed. I contacted the local PD and such, I didn't even get an email reply saying they'd look into it. I got shafted completely on that deal, and I hope yours goes much better. A part of me is curious to know who you were dealing with, with so many earmarks screaming at me from your story, but honestly it's none of my business.

Do not cancel the complaint that was filed, stick to it until you receive exactly what you paid for. After all this hassle you're having, I'd go over the package with a fine toothed comb... if there was a bolter, a shoulderpad, a spear, or a slottabase missing, I'd probably still stick with it until it was resolved (missing piece(s) reshipped, or compensated), but I'm generally not pleased when someone doesn't do what they promised.

Just my 2 Canadian cents... lol

I find it hard to believe that your trade partner is experiencing real financial distress over the freezing of <$50 in his PayPal account. And if he is...tough! It's a consequence of his poor communication, and it could have been avoided if he acted like an adult.

Keep the dispute active, line up your notes for a possible BTR, and check your mailbox regularly so you can put all this behind you ASAP.

Well, thank you all for your support and advice, though I will admit, I still felt like I clubbed a baby seal.

Then, after work yesterday, what should I find on my porch but the package, in a Huggies box no less. Douche status confirmed! I did a quick inventory, it seemed like the vast majority of it was there, so the dispute has been lifted.

Maybe a Mod can change the title to "I AM a douche"!?

Fish76 wrote: Then, after work yesterday, what should I find on my porch but the package, in a Huggies box no less. Douche status confirmed! I did a quick inventory, it seemed like the vast majority of it was there, so the dispute has been lifted.

So you didn't get everything you were supposed to?

Well, i did not have time to do a complete inventory yesterday. But in my quicky one, and without getting too specific, there was 1 unit where there should have been 2, and I could not find 2 solo characters. This was a very large lot, many units, solos and such and the pieces I was most interested in were there. Also, there were extras not specified in the original deal. I am chalking the discrepancies up to an incomplete initial inventory on his end, as by his own admission he did not have the pieces on hand when he made the for sale post. Frankly with the difficulty I encountered, I am just relieved to have the thing done.

Edited for clarity.

imp522 wrote:

Fish76 wrote: Then, after work yesterday, what should I find on my porch but the package, in a Huggies box no less. Douche status confirmed! I did a quick inventory, it seemed like the vast majority of it was there, so the dispute has been lifted.

So you didn't get everything you were supposed to?

I think he was saying he "just did a quick inventory" not a comprehensive inspection and "it seemed like the vast majority of it was there".

Personally, I like clubbing baby seals, lion cubs, and new born kittens.
I've been at this about 9 months, i have a a couple of deals with a few of the posters that have replied on this subject.
My personal standard to deal/buy/trade with (not to sell to, mind you...) is as follows:
a trade rep of 75+, used to 100+, but i've soften a little...
NO Bad trade report: follow up, i read EVERY single trade report a use has under their "Check References"
if somebody does have a bad mark or neutral references... I'll ask, and make my own judgment, after looking into the References of the trade that posted the NON Positive remarks.
Trade must have Knowledge of product or willing to make the effort to show product (links,cutting and pasting, pics, easy stuff, if a trader isn't willing to make these efforts...)
Preferred method of paying is Paypal, due to the fact that i can kept my Hobby fun money, sheltered from my life accounts(rent/food/meds/gas)
All communications MUST go through bartertown's website, why? because it gives me a record and a recourse if need be. again this goes to the nature of the trader's heart, "too busy to check BT for PMs?" then your going to be too busy to make a trade happen properly.

It's not like where talking about 5 cent pieces of chewing gum. I don't play games with the jerks at my LGS(local game store) and i'm not going to put up with them here, (or at any of the forum sites i haunt....)

you might be a douche, but regarding this issue, to did what you had to do to protect your investment.