Suggestion: A 'Good Trade' example for newbies

[Rotaryracer]

I may have missed it - you guys have a lot of information out there, but most of it seems to deal with trade/payment problems. Good stuff when you need it! But why not post an example of a smooth trade (& a smooth purchase) just to provide a template for those new to personal trades? Pointing out the important steps, types of information, and such. It might help someone from making an embarrassing mistake or assumption.
Just food for thought, keep up the good work!
-George

[3eland]

A good idea! The problem is everyone goes about a trade differently. I usually like to encourage members to write up a final contract so both parties know exactly what is going on.

Things you should remember:

Who is shipping first? This, I find, is the biggest issue with trades. Some members who have many trades under their belt will automatically assume the lower trade score member will ship first. Remember THIS IS NOT A BARTERTOWN RULE, and anyone claiming it to be is full of it. You will find however, many members have their own trading guidelines and that is one of the bigger ones. They have been here trading a lot longer and a lot more than a new person and as such, they confide in their trade score - as should a new person.

Think of it this way - would a member who has done over 400 successfully positive trades all of a sudden risk their entire reputation and trade history to rip you off (especially over a few models)? Most likely not. Would a member who has just joined, has no trades or reputation try to rip you off? Who knows, but because they have no reputation or trade score, a member who has been here forever with 400 trades is not going to put that amount of faith in someone without seeing proof.

It sucks, but that is the way it tends to work. HOWEVER, you do not have to agree to send first if you do not wish to or feel uncomfortable doing so. Simply let them know you are uncomfortable shipping first and ask if there is something else that can be done to resolve the trade. If no agreement is made then simply back away.


Bartertown score beats all other scores. We do not care what your ebay feedback score is, we do not care what your Dakka, Warseer, 40k Online, Sears account, Walgreens membership, etc etc score is. Bartertown members rely on the Bartertown feedback system. This is how we judge a persons credibility and reputation. Sure having an ebay score may help but do not rely on it as many members (including myself) do not care. If you strongly believe you should be paid first because your ebay account is over 100 positives yet your Bartertown feedback is 0, well, don't expect many members to care. This may come off as rude but it is the truth - Look at MagickalMemories, his score is 660, which means he has done at least 330 positive trades. Is he going to send you payment first because your ebay account is over 500? No, because your Bartertown score is 0. Get your reputation up here on Bartertown, as this is the only score worth anything here.


How is payment being handled? If money is being sent, both parties must be clear on how it will be sent, when it will be sent, and anything else that revolves around it. Remember: Never send money through Paypal as a gift! You have NO security if the person decides to rip you off. Some people use exceptions here, like if they have dealt with the member before or if they are sending money after a shipment (so they receive the product, look it over, everything is okay - and so they send the money as a gift).

If you are asked to send as a gift and you do not feel comfortable with it, make sure you let your trading partner know. If no resolution is met then simply back away. Some people make the person pay their Paypal fees if you do not send as a gift - personally I say "Nope!". That is the fee of doing business and a consumer/buyer should not have to pay the fees. This however is totally negotiable through communication with both trade partners.


How is the shipment being sent/ How is it packed? I like to take pictures of the packaging process. This is to ensure my protection but to also show my trading partner everything is being packaged safely and efficiently. No one should ever say "That is what happens with shipping". I have sent packages and received packages that have been packaged with the best of care and in turn there was NO broken poles, spikes, pieces, etc etc.

There is no excuse for poor packaging. If you need to purchase some peanuts or bubble wrap, take it into account during your trade. I wrap every individual model in bubble wrap, then place it into a peanut and bubble wrap layer in the box. The entire box inside is bubble wrapped and I use spacers to help prevent unneeded movement. Why? Because I want to ensure there is nothing going to happen to the contents of my trade. Poles, swords and other spiky things? I put a peanut on it. Simply cut down the edge of a peanut and place it over or if it is a spear you can plop the peanut right on.

Packaging should be the longest thing you do in a trade. Your trading partner will be more likely to give good feedback and trade with you in the future if they see you did everything you could to package your shipment properly.

Remember also, quick and easy shipment is not always the way. I always notify my trade partner that I will be tracking and insuring the product. This tells them that shipment MAY be a bit pricier. But I would rather have the protection in case something happens. Kturock says boxes go through the machine at like 50 mph or something. So if your package is not packaged to ensure the survivability of a 50 mph box run with up to 50 pounds of stuff on top (think that is what he said) then you need to rethink your packaging methods. Insurance however (and tracking) will help both sides - knowing everything is covered.


Pictures and Contents. When you take pictures, ensure they are not taken with a potato. If the grains(pixels) are larger than the Space Marines head - you need to invest in another camera. Borrow someones if you need to - but poor pictures is NOT an excuse. Pictures are something that should be sent anytime you do business with someone, especially if the models are assembled, painted, stripped, etc etc. If they are new in box still shrink wrapped - then pictures aren't really needed.

Descriptive lists is a must (it's even a rule!). Accurate, descriptive lists will prevent BTRs and Back-outs. You need to not only show your trade but to describe it accurately. A trade partner needs to know what he is getting, how it was handled, painted, assembled, etc. If it is plastic, resin, metal. What edition it is, and anything else involved.


Never ever agree to something you are uncomfortable with. There is a reason why we have feelings like that - to ignore them could spell out disaster (not saying it will).




Remember that a Back-out is not official until both parties agree on everything (shipment, payment, who ships first, etc etc). This is why I write up a contract. Both parties can read it over, re-tune it if need be, and then agree to it. This protects both sides.


So as an example, let us pretend you and I are doing a trade.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sent: Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:18 am
by Rotaryracer

Hey, I'm interested in your Space Marine army, how much to [Zip Code]? Do you have pictures?
Thanks!

Sent: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:18 am
by 3eland

Thanks for the interest! Shipped to [Zip Code] would be $450 USD total (15 for shipping and insurance). You can view my army pictures here: [online picture album].Let me know if you are interested and we can start negotiating a trade!

Ryan

Sent: Tue Dec 30, 2014 14:23 pm
by Rotaryracer

That works for me! Your paint scheme is brilliant! So how do you want to do this?

Sent: Tue Dec 30, 2014 17:04 pm
by 3eland

Well, as you are a new user, I would ask that you send the money via Paypal and after receipt of the payment, I shall ship the package off within 2 business days. It'll include a tracking number and insurance for the full price. If this is fine let me know.

Sent: Tue Dec 30, 2014 17:18 pm
by Rotaryracer

Sure, that works for me, what is your Paypal?

Sent: Tue Dec 30, 2014 17:28 pm
by 3eland

Before you send any money, I would like to finalize everything. What is your address? My Paypal is [Paypal email], let me know and I can make up a finalized trade agreement and we can begin!
Ryan

Sent: Tue Dec 30, 2014 18:18 pm
by Rotaryracer

Of course, my address is [Address]

Sent: Tue Dec 30, 2014 19:12 pm
by 3eland

Thanks, so here is our trade agreement (a contract if you will lol), let me know if everything looks right. If you agree then we can begin!

You, Rotaryracer, will be purchasing my Space Marine army for 450 USD via Paypal in 1 payment(s) of $450 USD. This includes:

List of Space Marine stuff

Payment should not exceed past January 6th 2015 (one week) unless communication between the two of us has been met. After the payment has been made, I will ship the entire army within 2 business days to your preferred address by Canada Post. This shipment will include a tracking number and insurance to cover the full $450 USD. Most often this shipment service will take approximately 6-10 business days from Canada to the USA.

Your chosen address:
[your address]
[In your State]
[with your Zip Code]
[Country]

All payment(s) will be sent to my Paypal @ [Paypal Email]

Failure to pay the full amount by January 6th 2015 without communication between the two of us will be a breach of this trade agreement and further action may be done if I so choose to.

Pictures of packaging and shipment labels along with receipts will be provided upon shipment so we both have records of the deal and it's contents.

If you have any other questions or comments regarding the trade agreement, those will be made and included into a follow up agreement and then agreed to before payment and shipment is done.

If everything is in order then we can begin! Apologies but I like to keep things formal lol.

Sent: Tue Dec 30, 2014 20:20 pm
by Rotaryracer

Everything looks good, I agree! Thank you, your Payment will be sent shortly. THANKS!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Using a contract or "Trade Agreement" highlights both parts of the trade. This can be done with money or trade for trade models.

This is how I always do trades now, I used to be more relaxed in the past but unfortunately things happen (some exceptions apply with people I have dealt with before). You can write in something about references if you wish, that way it is in the contract.

From the trades, sales and purchases I have done with this "Trade Agreement", I always get positive comments. To some it may seem a little over the edge but to everyone else it is a secure net. You both can negotiate who trades first, who sends first, etc etc. Then, write it up into the agreement and both agree to it. This protects you and them. That and it makes you look more professional, and people will remember that.

[Rotaryracer]

Excellent! It's always less painful to learn from the experiences of others. Thanks for your time.

[MagickalMemories]

Well done, 3e!

Eric

[porkuslime]

Damn.. 3eland.. think that this might become a sticky at some point soonish..

-P

[3eland]

Thanks guys, but I was only posting what the rest of you would have .

Ryan

[errgin]

Pardon me if this is mentioned elsewhere, but I have found that it can be helpful to place an expiration date on offers. I have sent some messages and never received a reply or had inquiries that went nowhere. I didn't want to move on to a new deal without giving the original contact a chance to respond but at a certain point you may not get an answer. I think 48 hours should be enough time to at least get a response. That doesn't mean you can't carry on with the deal after three days. I just don't want to hold models back that could find a good home unnecessarily.

[MagickalMemories]

Pardon me if this is mentioned elsewhere, but I have found that it can be helpful to place an expiration date on offers. I have sent some messages and never received a reply or had inquiries that went nowhere. I didn't want to move on to a new deal without giving the original contact a chance to respond but at a certain point you may not get an answer. I think 48 hours should be enough time to at least get a response. That doesn't mean you can't carry on with the deal after three days. I just don't want to hold models back that could find a good home unnecessarily.

That's not a bad policy, at all.
Personally, I don't even do that. If I send an offer for something, I have NO problem sending an offer with those same models to someone else later, if it seems like something they'd want. See, until you both commit to the trade, it's not a deal. It's like something on a store shelf... it's not yours until you grab it.
Of course, any second, third, etc. person I offer them to DOES get told that I'm in discussions with others about the items, but that they have not committed yet. That way, I'm still putting out feelers, so as not to miss out on deals, but giving the FIRST person the right of refusal.

Eric

[optimusprime14]

That's not a bad policy, at all.
Personally, I don't even do that. If I send an offer for something, I have NO problem sending an offer with those same models to someone else later, if it seems like something they'd want. See, until you both commit to the trade, it's not a deal. It's like something on a store shelf... it's not yours until you grab it.
Of course, any second, third, etc. person I offer them to DOES get told that I'm in discussions with others about the items, but that they have not committed yet. That way, I'm still putting out feelers, so as not to miss out on deals, but giving the FIRST person the right of refusal.

Eric

Exactly my method as well. I rarely have time on the weekend to visit the site and depending on my work schedule and home life I can either be on every day or not at all for a few days. If I get a notice that I received a PM I do my best to reply to it, but sometime it may be 48+ hours before I do.

I do my best to be transparent in all my deals but nothing is every sold until the cash is in my hand.