2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Modeling, Painting, Converting, Terrain, etc

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akum ( 194 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by akum » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:08 am

I think that rebasing could be counted, but less points, maybe .25?

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3eland ( 62 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by 3eland » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:59 am

Wk = Wraithknight.

R
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Irish1983 ( 246 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by Irish1983 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:03 am

Basing should just be a requirement to get points if the model comes with them. Nothing wrong with taking a picture of it on base then do your massive epic scenic base later. Not a basing challenge.

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MagickalMemories ( 792 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by MagickalMemories » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:48 am

3eland wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:45 pm
Um... Riptide is 108 pieces.
3eland wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:46 pm
Even the WK is 114.
Right.
...and a LOT of work goes into models like that. Right?
How many points were they before?
(looks at first post)
They were 10 points last year.
Terminators were 3.
Let's look at your average CSM Terminator under the "per piece" scheme...
Legs: 1
Arms: 2
Shoulder Pads: 2
Torso: 2 (pieces)
Head: 1
Trophy Racks: 2
That's 10 points. Eleven of these is about the same as these 2 models under the "per piece" scheme.

Last year, three Termies would've been almost equal to a Riptide or 5 would have been more than a WK.
Riptides and Wraithknights are far more complex models than Terminators. Seems to me that the point per piece scheme is more accurate (in this case, at least).

Compare a regular SM to a regular SM Termie. Why should the Termie be more points? It's larger, but no more complex or time consuming. Each is 8 pieces, so they would be worth the same.

Not to be defensive about my idea... I just don't want it thrown away without contemplation. Frankly, (considering points), I'd rather assemble 5 CSM than one Wraithknight... I could EASILY do those in far less time, with far less headache. If you're going to buy a Warhound Titan, where each foot is a dozen pieces or whatever... I think you deserve a ton of points for putting that complicated mess together.

My buddy bought 2 Reaver Titan fists for terrain usage. Each fist is like 26 pieces, and it's a BEAR to assemble.
I can assemble a unit of Terminators faster than he could assemble that fist (if he was doing it for use on a model).

Then again, we could try a modified method...
1 to X pieces = A points
x+1 to Y + B points

Otherwise, if you buy a huge resin model that's the size of a knight, but only molded in 3 pieces, you get the same points as someone who has up to 10 hours into assembling his complicated model.

IMO, points should equal complexity and/or the amount of work put in.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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Irish1983 ( 246 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by Irish1983 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:13 am

I Think Memories points are valid. We could always handle weird situations with a vote/discussion.

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3eland ( 62 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by 3eland » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:19 am

Word. If that works for people, it works for me.

R
~Ryan~
I'm like superman, but without the super.

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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by kturock » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:05 am

That's been my thoughts for years.
I built metal CSM termies, and they were less points than the plastic SM models, because they were on smaller bases; even if I put them on the larger base.

Now we have the quick build, snap tight model, in large[r] sizes. Bigger bases, with fewer pieces, shouldn't be the same.

Like I pointed out earlier. Valkra [sp?] was a FC chaos model, She was a difficult model to build, yet only 1 point.
Necrons. The tiny arms are a pia, but only 1 point.

My latest entries for the build contest. Some of the small models are as much of a pia as the valkra. Only 1 point.
Others are just glue to a base and attach an arm. 2 points because they're on a termie base.

We have to decide what the basic points cost will be and what are the minimum number of parts, and how many more for a bonus.


Looking at my current Ork Boyz models.
Boy: torso, legs, head, 2 arms and a base. [old points 1, new 1?]
Nob:Torso, legs, head, 2 arms, shoulder pads, maybe a back banner and a base. 2-3 pieces more than a boy. [old points1, new points 1-2?]
Loota: Torso, legs, head 2 arms, 2-3 parts for a gun and a base. [old points 1, new points 1-2]
Shokk attack gun. I don't have the instructions handy, but it was about 18 pieces, on a termie base. [old points 2, new point 2-3?]

These are just easy models. Everyone knows what they look like and I happen to have the instructions right in front of me on my desk. :-)

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Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

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Irish1983 ( 246 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by Irish1983 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:14 am

Lets just do at at per piece, and cleaning a model and basing it if its 1 solid cast is 1 point. Give bonus to conversion work.

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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by kturock » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:06 am

Ok.. so my Boyz on bikes are 23 or 24 points each..22 pieces on 1 and 23 on the other 2 plus a base.
So.... instead of 9 points for all 3, they'd be 71 points?

Is that how we're deciding on how to score points?

I can go back and edit points awarded once we decide on the new scoring system.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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MagickalMemories ( 792 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:10 am

No points for bases, IMO.
My point suggestion is per piece of the model. The base is the stand for the model, and not the model, itself.
Curious (because I don't know)...
How are bikers 23 points?
Legs(1), Torso (1), Head (1), Arms (2) is 5 points. How many pieces are the bikes in? I'm looking at one of the newer sculpts I have (assembled a while ago), and it's about 13 or so pieces, as best I can guess.
That said, I remember assembling these bikes. They were a pain in the BUTT. Part of that's my fault, because I use plastic glue and had to wait for it to dry... and every one has some degree of conversion... but they were a time-sink.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by kturock » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:33 am

Bike pieces: 17
front tire, 2 pieces.
front fender, 2 pieces.
spikes on front fender, 2 pieces.
chassis w/ rear tire, 2 pieces.
Handle bar, 1 piece.
front of bike that handle bar mounts to, 1 piece.
muffler, 2 pieces.
drive chain/right foot mount, 1 piece.
gun mount, 2 guns and added part for mount. 4 pieces.


rider:head, torso, 2 arms, legs. 4 pieces.

21 pieces basic.
added shoulder guards on torso, 1-2 pieces.
so 22-23 not counting the base.

The leader has 1 less piece on the gun mount, but has a banner pole, so +1-1=0 If you use the gretchen pole instead, it has a head so plus 1 more piece.
One of the hand weapon choices is a 2 part claw arm, instead of just of a 1 piece mace or axe; so plus 1 more piece.

so it could be 25 pieces, not counting the base.

I just built 3 lootas. 1 had 10 pieces, the others had 8 each.
And there are spare scenery pieces to add to the mini or base, like cascading spent shells.
Each Loota is different, but there's only 1 picture on the almost instructions. I'm having to look at the GW webstore page to see what goes on which.
Guns and arms are labeled; a,b,c,d,e,. Too bad the legs aren't. I got 1 model aiming more down than up or horizontal.

Ugh. Now I'm having to keep a scratch paper for piece count. And labeling the models to know which is which. A,B & C are done.
Tomorrow starts the remaining two.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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MagickalMemories ( 792 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:39 pm

And there are spare scenery pieces to add to the mini or base, like cascading spent shells.
Those wouldn't count. Tiny bits, like belt pouches and the like (I'd count base decorations and shell casings as "the like") don't get points.
Other than that... it DOES sound like a lot of work. Right? Does it strike you that you had to assemble 3 times as many pieces on that as I did on a termie, yet you only got 1 more point?
The "point per piece" seems a bit fairer to me - even more so, now.

That said, you made a comment that makes sense:
Ugh. Now I'm having to keep a scratch paper for piece count.
This "contest" is really just about having fun. There's nothing serious at stake. It does seem a bit tedious that you'd have to do homework on your models. You know?

I don't know, you guys. For fairness sake, I'm liking my suggestion more and more every time we explore point costs and fairness. It DOES seem like a bit of tedium involved, though.


Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by kturock » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:47 pm

Most models have pieces numbered and multiple pictures, where you can count how many pieces were used. Or in the case of the shokk attack gun, just look at the highest number, since all pieces were used. Most all of the instructions in the CoS box are the older, unnumbered instructions and sprues.

Have you seen the Necromunda Goliath gang member, with a cigar. It's part of the model, but tiny. It's not an extra part, since the mouth looks stupid or even like a blow up doll, with out it. Its a tiny bit, but also required.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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3eland ( 62 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by 3eland » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:28 am

I'm sure piece count will work. Or,

Just score how much they are worth in USD.

At the end of the year, you assembled X USD worth of models.

R
~Ryan~
I'm like superman, but without the super.

The rules for Bartertown can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470
Helpful guide for sending packages to Canada: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=123125

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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: 2017 Bartertown Members Assembly Challenge

Post by kturock » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:45 am

A few editons back, I was thinking about starting a CoS army. Then it used to cost about $1 a point. A truck was 30 points and $30.
1000 point army, $1000.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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