Bartertown.com

I am considering an idea, and I wanted to get some feed back. My idea is to find a group of models, or tournament style army that is in demand and people are willing to pay for. Then I want to try and find the miniatures cheaper like through BT for example, and then paint them up to a fairly high standard to then sell and make a profit off them rather taking a loss.


I know 90% of the painted models sell for less due to the very fact they are painted, but... I also know fully painted armies do well when they have a constant theme too. Are any armies or skirmishing games in such demand that there is a hope to turn a profit that could make it worth it?

I was looking at things like 13th company, Necrons, or DE atm for 40k for example. Probably what ever is coming out next with Fantasy or something that is hot... for PP or one of the other games I know key miniatures are hot not groups normally.


I just repaired a friend's two Titans that fell off a table twice... they were like 6 more pieces than they should of. I got the thought of maybe getting a Titan and Painting it up... that is the greatest risk though. Most I see well painted turn a profit of about 40 to 60% of their value on sites that sell things like that. I am not sure I have ever seen one here for sell, so I have no clue about that here.

While I will probably buy the miniatures from here, I might not sell them here which I know is slight taboo and I am sorry. hehe I am just concerned I would invest capital into a project and not see a return.

Thanks for your thoughts positive or negative
Clark

Well, I have done a LOT of buying then painting and selling in the past. And it really varys. (40k and FB) One day you will get 15 bids on one army. Then you paint the same army up again, and it doesn't sell. I am really not sure what happens.

hehe I am just concerned I would invest capital into a project and not see a return.

All in all, I have definitely made a large profit on each army... but not as much as I would have liked. But then like I said, some just shoot through the roof with bids.. lol it's definitely a risky thing to do. Thanks!

Chris

Actually, it would NOT be taboo.

Since what you're doing is, in reality, right in line with what we consider to be a commercial endeavor, the fact that you wouldn't be trying to list them here is APPRECIATED.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:Actually, it would NOT be taboo.

Since what you're doing is, in reality, right in line with what we consider to be a commercial endeavor, the fact that you wouldn't be trying to list them here is APPRECIATED.

Eric

hehe well I knew that you would not want me linking to other website promoting it, but I wasn't sure if even talking about future plans was taboo was all. Anyways, I do what I can to respect your rules here, I like BT a lot, it has helped me a lot as time has gone on to keep the value of things in perspective and I have had some great trades that I would have gotten no where else.

We appreciate that.
As a general rule, post all the into you want about what you're doing (the project, etc). As long as you don't post links to a sale (or links to a place that has links to a sale), we won't have any issues at all.
In fact, I'd LOVE to follow the project from start to finish.


Eric

Well I have four test subjects, three from olders miniatures I have from my past, and the last from stuff I am buying.

The two from my past could be views as "Ol' Flames". These three were armies I had planned to build and play, but for some reason I changed my mind for what ever reason. My thoughts are if I were to get a segment of what people might want in a army, and be willing to add to their army even if it is a slight change in color.

Test Subject 1: A IG platoon with 3 Sentinel walkers with the scout and heavy flamer. I have them most of them painted up with the same patteren on them, sadly they're the musicle bound type. I have two squads and the command squad with all three heavy weapon options as auto cannons, and the two squad special weapons as flamers. My thoughts are that if I finish out the painting of the 14 troops I do not have painted that the group would sell better than they are now... they would sell better if they were a more popular version of IG models.

Test Subject 2: This group is fully painted, however I think it would be considered more often if they had something to ride around it. This was is two squads of Death Guard conversions from normal CSM troops with green stuff dmonic growths, and were painted to a nasty ill look with greens and browns like all good Death Guard should look. There is also a Tzeench Sorc, a Tzeench Terminator Sorc, Nurgle Terminator Sorc, 10 Lesser Deamons that are Bloodletters painted to look different than the normal, and 9 Thousand Suns. I think that putting them in 3 Rhinos with the unit markings from Forge World would bring their value up as they would match their elements.


Test Subject 3: This one is a Eldar group with 3 Wave Serpent, 2 units of Dire Advengers, and 6 Fire Dragons. As of right now all the Dire Advengers, and Wave Serpents are unpainted. The Fire Dragons are half painted and half primed white, and are Non-Metallic colors.


Test Subject 4: This group is 3 models that I got on discount (Pyre Troll, Earthborn Dire Troll, and Karl Franz on Death Claw).

The Pyre Troll has two main purposes from my perspective, A) that it looks cool and that can bring the value up for some people, and B) that it could be a lot of fun to paint. I am not sure if it is a commonly used miniature, and if it is not I guess I will just bring it into the ranks of miniatures I have. BTW Part B) is a negative business wise, but it is a measured one. hehe

The Earthborn Dire Troll is another one that I have always wanted personally, but I believe it is more desired in the game itself too.

This is not my first time painting Karl Franz and Death Claw, that last time I was paid 75 dollars to do it for a friend of mine. However, that was with the metal miniature a while back. However, this is my first time painting the new kit, and I am stoked about it. Again not a model that many will put in their list as a Karl Franz, but it is a model that many people would like to have that play Empire.



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So with groups 1 and 2, I think it would be better to buy and/or finish painting the groups so that they make since to the player wanting to feld them. The 3rd group I am torn on, it might be better to split the Fire Dragons off and put them in a wave serpent together, and trade/sell the Dire Advengers and other Serpents as on the sprue out of the box. The last group is more what I will have to do in the future, which is buying a certain model, and then promote it so I can turn a profit enough to make it worth it.


My end goal is not to become wealthy of this, or do this for years, it is to get me in position so that I can do another huge project that I am having capital issues with. That is doing the same thing, but doing a Titan or two which even if they only double that would be a nice chunk of change.


I have two goals with this. A) that I want to get the models I want for my RPG games, and round out 1 or 2 armies that I have not been able to get instead of having 5 or so different armies being built. B) I also want put money toward a business that I wanted to do that is related to gaming, I am still working the bugs out, but I figure it is going to cost me 10 to 20,000 dollars to get it started without a physical business location. lol

So I am starting small, and through seady progress I'll see how close I can get to my number. I am also working ways to reduce the amount of invested capital needed.

On that anyone recommend a good custom box company and/or a bag company that offers some sort of reinforcement in their bags. These two obstacles are related toward "shipping of the product" and how the "customer intends to move" a larger object about 2 ft square and nearly a foot high. heh I have even considered a solid box made of light-weight material that can hold my product. However, I am worried about how fortified can a light-weight box can be, and as the coined phrase of "Easy of Use" goes I am also concen how a well fortified box is going to be to use without damaging the product or the box.


Again I welcome all constructive discussion positive or negative, and thanks for your time and effort in responding to this.

I am constantly plotting ideas on this, and this is not a new subject to me so I have considered other options too. Here are a few I have thought about as well...

Waiting for something like marines or IG to go on sell or I can get a deal on a large number of them. Then use an air brush to coat like 100 to 300 of them to knock a step out, and them spam the out at a table top qaulity level. Then take them to one of these sites that you can sell stuff on, and sell them as single model. If someone wants 37 troops and 3 sgts, than they can get them, or if they want 13 troops and a sgt they can get that too. Looking at the margins I am fairly ok with that, the base model for a new from GW site Hormagaunt is $2.42 per Hormagaunt, and if I can get 5 or 6 dollars per miniature that is 2.5 to 3.5 in painting. If I do 4 an hour that is 10 to 12 dollars an hour for a profit margin, but I have to invest to even get close to that imo.

The above has it limitations, such as only certain models are needed in large quanities, and are simple enough to be painted this way. Also there is the issue that it might leave me stang quanities of certain troop options like Grenaders and missile launchers from IG for example.

I have also looked towards be coming a brush for hire, but the advertisement costs is pretty great unless you have a large enough base to over come that. There are also other costs involved with delay in recieving product, issues with shipping, lose of customers due to being overwhelmed, and then slow points when you are not making enough. It sort of sounds like a nightmare... but with the right conditions, and enough side projects I think that could work too... but I am not sold on it yet.

Another thing about this is having a clear understandable method of knowing who owes what, where they are in what stage, and keeping track of when things are due. This means a complete change to how I normally paint which is by what I feel, and that I work 40 hours a week plus everything else I am doing which is another 10 to 15 hours more a week. Both of the above take more time, and has the greater risk imo.

Admin note:
I've spoken with the Op about this. he has my approval to post it.
Some may note that he discusses selling them when done. Although THAT is a commercial endeavor by our definitions, I'm letting him blog the work here provided he does not "hock" them on BTown in the trade lists, by posting links to his ads, or in any other way.

Eric

yeah I am totally cool with keeping with the guidelines of BT, I am more talking theorycraft of some thoughts I have had lately. I do not plan to execute them here, I am just wondering what people think about my ideas. I currently live in the middle of no where Kansas, so I have no one to talk to about this really other than via the web. heh It is like 200 miles to the nearest game hobbyist shop and add another 50 miles to some place that has major miniature nights. So Wichita or Colorado Springs. lol


I will post some pictures and what not too, so that you all can get an idea of what I can do painting wise. Since that is a major part of what I am doing here in each of my projects. heh

Test Subject 1: This is part A of the follow up of the above test, that I want to see how people react to this group of miniatures. By this group of miniatures I am meaning; A IG platoon and units that fluff wise similar. I am hoping that by seeing if people will want to get the whole lot because it adds something to their army they might not have, and if it is big enough that people are willing to have something that looks different from their own.

I think this is very situational, as in, I do not believe that Tyranids will be a good army to look at this since most hives fluff wise do not mix as they have different leadership. The same could be said about several other armies like Eldar maybe or Necrons which might not have as strong of a reason, but it is not as flexible as Valina Space Marines.

So here I am starting a album on my photobucket account that is only hosting pictures, it will not have any links to anything I am selling. Anything that talks about me selling will be in a private album that will not be able to be accessed when I finalize this. I will also not say when this are being finalized until after I have finalized them, so there is no one will misunderstand what my goals are here. OFC I will not link any sells either on these forums either. hehe

However, if it is ok I might talk about what happened in the end, but if that is too far I will not talk about the result of this test only the concept of this test.


The below is only to the pictures of the models I am painting and/or have painted already for this test.
http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/ ... %20Scouts/

Here are two links to direct pictures to give an idea without flooding the post with pictures.

Sentinel Walker with Scout and Heavy Flamer


Here is 9 of the 10 for that Squad I got painted minus the heavy weapon platofrm



I am still finding all the miniatures for these test subjects, it seems I can not find any of the heavy weapon platforms they are probably all together in the same box somewhere stored away. lol

This is fine... but I AM moving it to the "Creative Endeavors" forum. : )


Eric

Test Subject 2: This is the one with my CSMs in it. This is very much like Test Subject 1, but it has one change which I did not see at the start of it, but that I like the sound of. I am putting each squad in a Rhino, and then painting the Rhino to look the same as the unit. I want to paint it to the same standard I have the troops within, and match their pattern so they belong together.

The reason why I am splitting this up into 4 groups that sort of work together is to test another idea out that I have seen done from time to time. That is you do a search for a certain item, and you find it, but then you see other items for sell that are also by the same person selling it and they might even be the same models just a different lot. I think the reason why people split that up like that is to give more options. Someone might want two squads of Death Guard, but someone else might want one unit of Death Guard more so they're willing to pay more.

So I am basically seeing if lumping groups together has more benefit than splitting it up. My concern is with certain groups that the good parts would sell, and the never used parts would remain. So this is a concern for stuff I have now, and deals with weak portions I might get in the future.


Anyways, back to the subject at hand. lol I was remembering slightly wrong, it was not a Tzeench Terminator Sorc, it was a Slaanesh Terminator Sorc which is the stronger option imo. Like the above IG models I am still finding the Thounsand Sun Models which are probably with my IG heavy weapon teams

This is the Album the pictures will be in like the above.
http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/ ... 0Elements/

This is a picture of the Slaanesh Terminator Sorc...


This is a Picture of the Yellow Squad Death Guard Conversions I have...


You might note that I split my 40k units up into colors on their bases when I have several of the same type. I do this because I play nids, and it is nearly impossible to keep track of which unit is a part of which combat when you get them near each other and how many wounds each unit took that phase. lol Looks a little bit like someone poured a bag of skittles out on the table, but it works well for me and these were for me with the original planning. heh


So to recap briefly I am thinking of splitting this into two lots of Death Guard Conversions, one lot of Thousand Suns, and one lot of Bloodletters painted to look like lesser deamons.

Again I welcome any constructive discussion on it positive or negative.

Nice job on the Purple Terminator Sorc! I really like how the purples came out.

Chris

The only problem I see is that CSM are pretty weak in the current book/codex environment. Also, with the recent FAQ @ss-whooping GW gave Lash of Slaanesh and Warptime, the army's gotten substantially weaker.

Eric

CMSheats wrote:Nice job on the Purple Terminator Sorc! I really like how the purples came out.

Chris

Thanks a lot! I have played them without a Rhino a few times, it was frustrating btw, but everyone see that Sorc from other tables and comes over to look at it.

MagickalMemories wrote:The only problem I see is that CSM are pretty weak in the current book/codex environment. Also, with the recent FAQ @ss-whooping GW gave Lash of Slaanesh and Warptime, the army's gotten substantially weaker.

Eric

Yeah that is a concern for me too, I have been debating on holding back that until they release the new CSM book. However, they are going to get a new CSM book at some point, and I think that is better than having one out and it sucks. hehe


I also think that adding Rhinos with those cool doors to the lot will make them pop, and show a perfect example of how they could be used.