Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by Adunaphel » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:03 pm

I'm curious what was more RP friendly from 1st/2nd compared to 3rd. Honest question, wondering what stood out to you as more RP friendly / encouraging RP, whichever you prefer to call it. And are you going more 1st, or adding in proficiencies and such from later 1E and then 2E products?
You know, I took a long look at my 2nd edition books after you asked this question and as I looked, I realized that there isn't that much of a difference (that I could find). The weapon and non-weapon proficiencies are just precursors to skills and feats. So, I don't know. Maybe it's just a nostalgia thing. Eric, any comments? I don't see anything that really restricts Pathfinder compared to 2nd edition. The rules are a little more intricate. I guess if you factor in the idea of using flip maps and figures, you have less role play and it's more of a battle/strategic game. I don't have ANY 3.0/3.5/4.0 D&D books, so I can't really compare those. I just have Pathfinder and the old 2nd Edition stuff.

Maybe they are learning - releasing 1st edition books again:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx ... axmemorial
That is pretty cool. Although, I would like just the old all in one original book, but the 1st edition DMG is STILL an amazing book with so much information. I guess they realized that if the new edition flops, re-release the old stuff.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by IraShaine1972 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:11 pm

What is up with that??????? Um......I can get those books for allot less on ebay.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by MagickalMemories » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:47 pm

Re: 1st edition re-release

Anyone got a copy/paste of the text? The link's blocked @ work.


Re: 1st & 2nd vs. 3.x

From here, I cannot give many specifics.

If you compare combat in 3.x to previous, it's a lot more regimented and has a lot more rules. 1&2 e were very 'go with the flow.'
Also, compare old proficiencies to 3.x Skills & Feats. Are there any skills that don't have a combat (or combat support) application? I mean, 2e had Basket Weaving! LOL Does 3.x (I seriously don't remember)?

Look at weapon proficiencies. If you wanted to use a weapon, you spent a weapon slot on it. If you used the expanded rules and wanted a GROUP of weapons, you spent MULTIPLE slots on it. Now, as of 3.x, every class automatically COMES with certain entire groups of weapons. Want something different? Okay. Spend a Feat on it.
I preferred the expanded "kit" selections from 2e that might GIVE you extra benefits, but also REMOVED some, as well as providing certain Role Playing guides and requirements.
There are feats in 3.x that GIVE you certain combat abilities that are just POWERFUL. Cleave or Great Cleave, anyone? ON 2e, you didn't have that kind of stuff. Maybe, if you rolled a critical hit, your DM gave you something special like that... but it was just that; Special.
Speaking of Crits, they made MANY weapons tougher with extended critical hit ranges. WTF? I hate the concept that certain weapons crit on more than just a 20 and (correct me if I'm wrong... it HAS been a while), there are Feats that allow you to EXPAND your crit range with certain weapons. Hell, as a player, my 2 handed weapon of choice will usually be a scythe, thankyouverymuch.

Those are the basics, and things I can rattle off from the top of my head.


Eric
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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by Adunaphel » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:09 pm

You could take Craft: Basketweaving. :wink:

The rest are valid arguments. Pathfinder is definitely more regimented. Although I still don't know whether I like the uniform initiative or the changing initiative every round from 2nd.

As for the expanded crits, just make it a rule that only a 20 gives you a crit. Problem fixed. As for combat feats, I think the feeling was that fighter's were getting left in the dust. Granted, now they are just tanks, but one of the fighters in our gaming group is actually our best role player. So, that helps. I am sure that each RPG group has it's unique positives and negatives. Luckily, I play with an older group who are veteran roleplayers and it makes sessions a lot more fun to play through.

As far as the 1st edition re-release, they are selling the old books for $35 for the PHB and MM and $45 for the DMG (which if you don't have it, it is an excellent book).

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by Imaginos » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:03 pm

I see where you are coming from. I think the big difference, when it comes to combat being more regimented, is that they define what you can do more in 3.x/Pathfinder. They put rules to it, so there was an even judgement on trying to disarm the opponent, or kick them down, or grab them. IIRC, 1E didn't have rules for these except in Dragon magazines. 2E started to come up with some of these rules too. But 3E really put the rules down in the core book. And I can see where that limits people - they see these options, and don't consider that they have other options.

Example: A 3.x player might look at the rules and say that they'll take 3 AOO going down the staircase to get past the guards on the staircase, where a 1/2 player might just jump over the balcony and grab the curtains. By putting the options into the rules, it might limit some people to think those are the only options.

That was actually one thing I think 4E did right, in the oft cited page 42 (I think) of the DMG. Where it discussed using alternate tactics. This is completely from memory when I was running 4E after it came out (been rebuying the books though).

But these limitations are in the minds of the players, not in the rules per se.


Regarding the rerelease of the 1E books - blocked at work here too. But for that price, they really need to butter and sugar the books to get that much out of them.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by MagickalMemories » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:49 pm

Thirty five bucks?
Who in their right mind would pay THAT?

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by IraShaine1972 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:01 pm

Yeah I mean you can find this stuff on ebay for pretty cheap. As for for some of the things mentioned about combat, I think even while Pathfinder stated rules more matter of factly I think that the golden rule still applies, take what you like and toss the rest or change it into something you DO like. Things like initiative and stat generating have always been played depending on that the group likes. I find that Pathfinder (3.x) make combat more tactical with templates and AOO and 5 ' steps and things that more or less REQUIRE game grids and markers at the least but overall can still be tossed out. They actually DID toss out some of these combat concepts in the beginner box. I for one prefer to play rpgs without the tactical combat visuals mostly but they can help also if one likes to know exactly what it going on. I suppose that all editions share that aspect of modifiable rules. I tend to think that more and more players don't share that rules. It never ceases to amaze me when reading company forums for RPG games (any really) you time and time again come across befuddled GMs and players that are in quandaries over the rules more or less getting in the way of the game. Silly.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by oaflord » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:05 am

MagickalMemories wrote:Thirty five bucks?
Who in their right mind would pay THAT?

Eric
Some of the money goes to a Gygax memorial fund, so sentimentalists would.
In 1974, the world changed forever when Gary Gygax introduced the Dungeons & Dragons role-playing game. The legacy of his innovative ideas and the extensive reach of his powerful influence can be seen in virtually every facet of gaming today.

To help honor his work and his memory, we created limited-edition reprints of the original 1st Edition core rulebooks: the Monster Manual, Player's Handbook, and Dungeon Master's Guide. These premium versions of the original AD&D rulebooks have been lovingly reprinted with the original art and content, but feature an attractive new cover design commemorating this re-release. Available in limited quantities as a hobby channel exclusive in North America.

Your purchase of this monumental book helps support the Gygax Memorial Fund—established to immortalize the “Father of Roleplaying Games” with a memorial statue in Lake Geneva, WI.
oAF
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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by Adunaphel » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:55 am

Yeah, and they have NEW cover art. :roll:

I wonder what "premium versions" means?

Actually, there are probably a LOT of folks who play D&D and have never even SEEN the 1st edition books. And you have to admit, they were nice.
Having just looked, though, I am pretty sure that you can buy all three on eBay for the price of the DMG.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by IraShaine1972 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:07 am

1st edition has been anything but scarce over the years. There are TONS on ebay even now over 20 years after they went out of print. This is just another hype move. They are trying to create some sort of celebratory atmosphere around all of this and I just don't think the D&D (real not 4e) fanbase, the ones that stuck with 3.5 or Pathfinder, are going to eat it up this time. The notion of brand selling is such a deeply entrenched corporate marketing philosophy that everything is built on it. This is just another attempt to further that philosophy. That is at the heart of what has ruined D&D as a name.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by MagickalMemories » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:57 am

The link's not working, now. It just clocks and doesn't connect.
I'll have to try again later.

What bothers me is that I'm not seeing HOW MUCH of this price goes to the fund. Before spending $35 on ONE book, I think I'll keep the ones I have and donate more to the fund than they would've, anyway.

Pardon my cynicism.


Eric
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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by IraShaine1972 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:31 pm

You would think that in all of nerdom there would be some group of nerds that could just get a statue done if they really wanted one that bad. How much does a statue cost anyway? I mean seriously. Nerds are known universally for having money. Hell nerds are natural money makers. Why?.....A number of reasons. I think the whole thing is a bit much. Sure he sparked and industry into life but he didn't sure a disease or invent some new tech or something. I see it as part of the whole branding issue. Hype hype hype. Its all an empty vessel. D&D wasn't built on pre-orders.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by oaflord » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:53 pm

IraShaine1972 wrote:You would think that in all of nerdom there would be some group of nerds that could just get a statue done if they really wanted one that bad. How much does a statue cost anyway? I mean seriously. Nerds are known universally for having money. Hell nerds are natural money makers. Why?.....A number of reasons. I think the whole thing is a bit much. Sure he sparked and industry into life but he didn't sure a disease or invent some new tech or something. I see it as part of the whole branding issue. Hype hype hype. Its all an empty vessel. D&D wasn't built on pre-orders.
Remainder of article for those that can't read it... Not hype, HE wanted to be immortalized...

Wizards of the Coast: For those who may not be aware, can you please introduce us to the Gygax Memorial Fund? What are you looking to achieve to honor the memory of Gary Gygax?

Gail Gygax: The Gygax Memorial Fund was set up to procure a memorial to Gary Gygax. Gary wanted a memorial, a bust of him to be set in a location in Lake Geneva. A place for his fans to come visit.

Wizards of the Coast: Where is the project currently, in terms of phases? What’s next?

Gail Gygax: The city of Lake Geneva has granted land in Donian Park. We just need to get the funds raised and the project approved. Stefan Pokorny of Dwarven Forge has donated his talents as sculptor.

Wizards of the Coast: WotC is re-releasing the 1st Edition Monster Manual, Player's Handbook, and Dungeon Master's Guide, with purchase of these books helping us to contribute to the fund. What else can gamers do to get involved? How else can they help?

Gail Gygax: We need money, of course. And all greetings of well-wishes in the form of emails to gygaxmemorialfund.com are welcome, as I would like to present those to our City Council.

Wizards of the Coast: Most of us know Gary through his roleplaying games; we never had the chance to meet him personally, but only through the game we played. How would you like Gary to be remembered as a person as well as the father of RPGs?

Gail Gygax: Gary loved the fact that he created D&D and was the father of RPGs and what he gave to the world: men and women coming together and developing friendships and learning. At Gen Con 40 (in 2007) he was overwhelmed with fans relating to him his importance on his work through which they developed lifelong relationships: lifelong friends, marital partners and extended families—all through gaming. What a gift! By that he was truly joyful and comforted.
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MagickalMemories wrote:I think it was best said by Oaflord, with his 14 rating. Smart fella, there.
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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by IraShaine1972 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:39 am

Now I cant decide who is sicker.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by starslayer » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:17 am

IraShaine1972 wrote:Now I cant decide who is sicker.

ROFLMAO!

Anyway...snicker....the books seem a bit over-priced. Those better be really nifty new covers.

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