Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by MagickalMemories » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:02 am

IraShaine1972 wrote:When I started this hobby it was based on imagination and creation. Now its all about generating hype to cash in on a release then piss on it when its all over. Re write it or re sculpt it or re design it and start the hype all over again for another splash sale. Thats probably why the fantasy gaming industry gets less and less of my money all the time. Nothing new or original just re hashes and price hikes.
I'd like to disagree. I sincerely would...

...but I can't. Gaming used to be about spreading the joy and hobby of gaming as a way of making a living. Now, it's all about generating huge profits for the corporation and share holders. It's no longer about capturing our imaginations. Instead, it's about capturing our wallets.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by IraShaine1972 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:14 am

I wish it wasn't this way either but I also find it humorous that WotC attitude hasn't changed and to me it is glaringly obvious in their statements that their motives are still to create a money making brand. It will fail. No RPG has ever been and ever will be huge profits. For 2 big reasons I think that RPGs attract the most imaginative of gamer types whos satisfaction hinges more on good game experiences over flashy new products. I think RPGs attract some of the more financially challenged that want fun game experiences that don't cost hundreds or require regularly scheduled buying. It probably also attracts more common sense types that realize the the game is what the players make it NOT what the manufacturer tells you it is this time around. I am just as happy playing AD&D 2e as I am playing Pathfinder and you know what? I still feel like I had the same experience.

Personally I think the end result will be the destruction of the D&D brand. However it really no longer matters as D&D lives on in many other games that are D&D at the core with different names. The players have made them what it is now D&D lives among those still playing it. The title itself is meaningless.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by Adunaphel » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:49 am

I would have to agree with Ira here. I am a GM for a game called "Pathfinder" at the moment. For me, it is D&D. The ruleset is fairly meaningless to me as a GM. For me, the role playing experience hinges on MY creativity (and my fellow gamers ability to tap into that and use their creativity and imagination to link to mine). I don't sit down and worry about the way the rules are worded or even how exactly a skill or feat or special ability effects our game sessions. I don't worry about how the combat system works. It has been, is, and always will be about a story. A set of places. A particular scene or setting. I wouldn't think twice about HOW a skill is used or HOW the system even uses skills or combat for that matter.

Until recently, I hadn't played a pen and paper roleplaying game in ages. I got back in as a player in a Dark Heresy campaign and remembered why I used to love it so. When I was asked whether I wanted to GM a game, I looked through a friends library of books and the artwork of Pathfinder lured me in. I told my gaming group that Pathfinder would be cool for me. I had no idea about 3.5 or 4.0 or any of that. I had already put the pieces together in my head for what I wanted and frankly it didn't mean a dang thing which system I used.

I think what a lot of roleplaying game companies have forgotten is that RPG's are the gamer's realm. There is no room for corporate decisions. We don't care. I could've just have easily made the game from 1st edition D&D. Doesn't matter. What matters are the stories, the characters, the settings, and the exploits of these imaginary constructs of very imaginative gamers.

I think if my gaming group gives me another shot at being a GM (and they have given me quite a bit of positive feedback so far in this my first attempt in about 20 years), then I think I am going to go with something like Mutant Epoch or some other retro style post-apocalyptic RPG. We are not going to buy flip mats or battle figures. Never going to happen. Our characters live in our heads. Yes, we might paint up a representation of what our character looks like, but we would never use it in a gaming session. That's not what RPG's are about. At least, not to me and not for the group that I play with.

I will get off my soapbox now. I realize that there are as many opinions about RPGing as there are players who play the games.

I would not be too surprised if this ploy of putting 4.0 D&D to rest early and starting anew doesn't help the company at all. Gamers have already figured out that there are other alternatives, even if it is just to dust off that ancient tome that you used to play as a kid. It works just as well now as it used to then...

Sorry about the book here. I just started typing and these words all fell out of my head. :oops:

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by IraShaine1972 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:03 pm

Funny thing to is that for the life of me I cant think of any RPG that has ever been successful by intent only by integrity. I think any dedicated publisher of RPGs has to function within the means that the game provides rather than try to function like a superstar and portray your product in that light. Right now there are a few what I would call successful RPGs (Pathfinder,Traveller,40k line) but I dont think any of them have been launched with the same attitude that WotC is demonstrating. Most have been launched with a genuine love of the game itself. Take Dark Heresy for example. I think in the last several years it stands out as one of those rare products from GW that was a labor of love. I do not doubt that the products from FFG since have had a certain level of "heart" poured into them (I have personally talked with contributing writers) even if I see FFG losing some of what made them great along the way. If nothing else I can say the the 40k RPG books are very well done.

I do not doubt that there will be allot of genuine love go into the next incarnation of D&D and hell I would want to be involved if someone offered me the chance. However I suppose bottom line for me is that it is being done for all the wrong reasons. To create a dominant brand in a niche industry that really has no room for a dominant brand. That only serves to limit the creativity of the fans themselves and since I feel that is intrinsically impossible the players themselves will break the mold. Really I think it has already been broken. I am sure it will attract some but not to the level of what corporate marketers project. Even if it attains a certain level of success it will probably be deemed a failure at some point simply do to corporate financial politics. Funny thing I see is anger on the part of people that are regular players of 4e and like it. They are the ones that are getting stung the most but like all other incarnations what has been published is at least still there to enjoy. At least the books will probably be cheap.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by Imaginos » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:12 pm

I think WotC is still trying to recover from the OGL. On the one hand, it gave them a great hand up over the other publishers because so much stuff was published for it. The sheer volume drowned out stuff from other publishers. But it also gave them their biggest weakness - Pathfinder. And since they cannot pull Pathfinder, I think WotC will continue struggling with the fact that they contributed to the creation of their major competitor.

Until they manage to knock off Paizo and replace Pathfinder, I think we'll see reboots every 5 or so years until they either accept it, WotC gets sold off from Hasbro, or they manage to push Paizo out of the way.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by IraShaine1972 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:37 pm

I think more profoundly is that Paizo did what WotC should have done. Thats gotta sting and I don't think there is any going back from it all.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by Imaginos » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:26 pm

By getting Monte Cook back in the fold, I think they are trying to go back to fix the changes made to 4E, but hoping to get more input from fans to bring folks back from Pathfinder. I just don't see it happening. Paizo puts out pretty good product - not all of it is awesome, but they are pretty solid. I think, even with the lip service they are giving fans, WotC will have a difficult time recovering the Pathfinder fan base.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by oaflord » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:44 pm

MagickalMemories wrote:Gaming used to be about spreading the joy and hobby of gaming as a way of making a living. Now, it's all about generating huge profits for the corporation and share holders. It's no longer about capturing our imaginations. Instead, it's about capturing our wallets.
You want to capture my wallet??? Capture my imagination.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by IraShaine1972 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:04 am

The corporate philosophy is to sell a name that is the whole idea behind "branding". The theory that people buy a name so they don't have to think. RPG fans are rather avid thinkers, thus the branding strategy will not work. This is just an attempt to attract people to the brand yet again. Just not the way RPGers roll. I am more than satisfied with what I have now. Frankly I think this whole ploy would serve only to make me more of a Pathfinder loyalist.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:55 am

I think a well done 5e COULD lure people away from Pathfinder. Really.
Pathfinder is just an expanded & streamlined 3.5, in essence. What people bitched about most in 3.x is that the game got away from ROLE PLAYING. It was about strategy, miniatures and combat.
Yeah, there's the "You don't need rules for Role-Playing" BS but, come on. That's not what I'm saying. There were a lot more ROLE playing elements built INTO the 1e & 2e system. Things that were fun to use. If you can keep the streamlining and combat strategery (Yeah. I said it!) of 3.x and bring back the innate role playing friendliness of 1e/2e, you'd have a VERY strong game.


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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by Adunaphel » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:07 pm

Eric,

I didn't say you didn't need rules, I just think that a good GM can make good ROLE play out of any ruleset. I am sure that you could do it with 4th edition D&D also.
I would take a peak at a new D&D, but I suspect that WotC would have to overcome a good bit of skepticism to regain it's top shelf status.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:38 pm

Adunaphel wrote:Eric,

I didn't say you didn't need rules, I just think that a good GM can make good ROLE play out of any ruleset. I am sure that you could do it with 4th edition D&D also.
Sorry.
I wasn't saying you did. It was just a preemptive strike/statement for those that do... and there are plenty of 'em. : P
Adunaphel wrote:I would take a peak at a new D&D, but I suspect that WotC would have to overcome a good bit of skepticism to regain it's top shelf status.

Karl
I couldn't agree with you more.
I'll go on to say that, while I'd look into the new D&D (by sitting down at a FLGS with the books, though. NOT by buying them sight unseen), I suspect that I would still like the system less than 1e/2e.

Eric
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Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by Imaginos » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:14 pm

I'm curious what was more RP friendly from 1st/2nd compared to 3rd. Honest question, wondering what stood out to you as more RP friendly / encouraging RP, whichever you prefer to call it. And are you going more 1st, or adding in proficiencies and such from later 1E and then 2E products?

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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by eman1_2 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:29 am

Maybe they are learning - releasing 1st edition books again:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx ... axmemorial
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Re: Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'D&D'

Post by psychobob » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:27 pm

eman1_2 wrote:Maybe they are learning - releasing 1st edition books again:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx ... axmemorial

Now that is REALLY cool! I might have to ask around at the local FLGS and see if anyone wants to play.
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