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What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

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3eland ( 62 )
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by 3eland » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:07 pm

Power system is for Narrative and summoning.

So Chaos Sorcerers can roll up to 3 dice and summon a Daemon that matches or is less than the result.

This means you can't breaks summoning by summoning all these OMG units.

Rolling doubles and triples are bad as well.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by 3eland » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:07 pm

And you still have to pay points for the units you summon.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by MagickalMemories » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:38 am

Forgive me if I overlooked something in my glance of the new index books... but it appears as if Power Level is the only way to currently play. I didn't see any points listed in the copy I saw.



The only thing I have an issue with so far is that, by simply looking at the rulebook, the rules have a lot of holes in them.
For example, I LIKE the rules about assaulting out of a vehicle now. But I don't know if such a thing as an Assault Vehicle even exists anymore with just looking at that book. Even if it does, what benefit does a unit get when assaulting from it? And what about open Topped vehicles? The rulebook doesn't tell me how my DE transports are going to work now.

I can't learn what armies I will want to focus on at first until I buy all of the index books I need to look my armies up.

When they said they were removing all of the "special rules" from the rulebook and putting everything you need to know in each datasheet, I had no freaking clue they meant something THIS drastic.

Eric
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by 3eland » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:32 am

Points are at the back of the book.

All rules for transports are on their scrolls. Open Top is no longer a thing. Some vehicles have the rule (like Orks) but there is NO universal special rules anymore.

All vehicles are assault vehicles.
~Ryan~
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by 3eland » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:32 am

By book I mean the Indexes.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by 3eland » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:35 am

Also, one other thing.

Points are for the naked model. You must purchase gear on top of the model.
~Ryan~
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by akum » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:45 am

Open top is still a thing, unit can shoot out if its open topped. Makes dark eldar pretty groovy

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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by 3eland » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:24 am

Open topped is only a thing if the vehicle itself has the rule for it.

Just checked dark eldar and you're right, they have the specific rule. So that's a great boon for DEldar!

There are no more fire points though. So I'm waiting to see what Forgeworld does with my 3 repressors.....
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by 3eland » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:28 am

My group Dark Eldar player was pretty happy with the new rules.

And their bikes are faster than eldar bikes which are faster than space Marine bikes.
~Ryan~
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by pretre » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:50 pm

3eland wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:24 am
. So I'm waiting to see what Forgeworld does with my 3 repressors.....
Imagine an Immolator but:
WS5+
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3 attacks
Heavy F/SB stock (107 total)
Can buy another HF or SB
Does 9 attacks on the charge in CC.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by 3eland » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:04 pm

Yeah a guy from my fb sisters group sent it to me this morning.

Man.

Man oh man of man.

I am so happy with the changes.
~Ryan~
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by spiralingcadaver » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:48 pm

Re: power level being simpler, yeah, I've got no problem with that (I think the game is generally improved), but I think that the extreme imprecision of the power level system just makes it trash, which is unfortunate since I thought the abstraction was a fine idea.

The problem is, so many substantial upgrades don't have a cost associated. I'm fine with a basic abstraction, like dreads might cost a flat rate regardless of their specific load out, but there are lots of other things, like sponsons (which hugely change the cost and attack output of tanks) or marine scout gear (which can make them anywhere from a very cheap bare bones line unit to a fairly pricey pseudo-elite support fire team), where, without any granularity, power level makes a ton of options or unit play styles just terrible ideas. I'm perfectly fine without fine tuned lists, but when you're talking about huge inaccuracies and disparities (it's easy for tacticals to hit 25:1 power level (a bit above the obvious intended mark of 20-ish) vs. those bare bones scouts which are around 9:1), I think it fails to do its job of easy balancing.

I think the idea's fine; the execution is poor, though.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by pretre » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:52 pm

But that's the point of power level. It's supposed to be a quick and dirty way to just get a game. It's supposed to be imprecise. If you want precision, you use points.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by spiralingcadaver » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:32 pm

Maybe my idea of quick and dirty just differs. I was looking for "a squad costs 5 points; here's a list of fancy guns that cost 1 each; if you choose that everyone has a better basic gun, that also costs 1" rather than "a squad costs 7 points; if you want to run them how we think you should, that's about right; otherwise, you're penalized," but it's not even that- it's both. For whatever strange reason, some units get granular options while what I'd argue are equivalents don't (15 points of jump packs increase cost by 1 (and 60 points of other squad upgrades for the unit don't, but at least that's consistently flawed), while 15 points of camo cloaks on a different unit don't).

The system is just wildly inconsistent- what is and isn't a substantial change seems completely arbitrary. The variance of 100 points might be ignored, while I believe there was once a 6-point upgrade that cost 1 power.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by MagickalMemories » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:37 am

3eland wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:32 am
Points are at the back of the book.

All rules for transports are on their scrolls. Open Top is no longer a thing. Some vehicles have the rule (like Orks) but there is NO universal special rules anymore.

All vehicles are assault vehicles.
Thanks for the heads up re: the book. I just glanced for a few minutes while waiting for my order to be filled.
I disagree that all vehicles are assault vehicles. In the OLD version, it meant something. You could roll up in your land raider, get out and assault in the same turn.
Now you can roll up, then get out and assault in the FOLLOWING turn.
I'd have loved to see a special rule called "Assault vehicle" for those types of vehicles that still allowed you to do that. It would allow the new rules to make transports more attractive (like they have), while not taking anything away from vehicles that used to be special in that regard.

That was what I meant.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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