Bartertown.com

Posted: **Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:04 pm**

About two months ago, I made a trade with “Groo The Wanderer”, I mailed my items promptly (May 15 2008) and I have documentation to show the shipment. Groo also confirmed the arrival of the items. After weeks of communication, he says he has finally shipped the items that I traded for. The items have not arrived in the time frame provided (the last message was received July 7 2008, with a time frame of 7-10 days for item arrival. It has now been 18 days since that message). I really don’t want to burn a guy like this, but I’m left with little choice. This post will be removed once the promised items have arrived.
-Igen S Tilch (AKA Robert Graham)

Groo The Wanderer wrote:
igenstilch wrote:well, counting the painted models, around 1800, with the unpainted and unasembled, easily over 2000, probably close to 2200 depending on the crises suit equipment.
Hi there

Would you consider army for army trade? I've got a 3000 pt Dark angel army I'd be will to trade.

Let me know what you think

Cheers
Lee

Groo The Wanderer wrote:
igenstilch wrote:Sounds interesting, send me a list of whats in the 3000 points and any pictures you have.
Hi there

Cool, Well it's an entire battle company. I've been putting it together for the last 3 years, Here's the rundown...

1 x 10 man RT Squad of Beakies
3 x 10 man vet squads in robes,
3 x 10 man tac squads with robed sgt's,
2 x 10 man devastator & 2 x 10 Man assault squads with robed sgts' where possible,
2 Dreadnoughts
2 Techmarines and Servators,
4 x Razorbacks / Rhinos,
2 x predators
and about 30 extra marines including hvy weapons and several character models and conversions.

I'll take some snaps tonight and post them tomorrow

Cheers
Lee

igenstilch wrote:I think I will go ahead and do the trade. Some of the tanks might need a little touch up paint, one of the broadsides will need some work (had trouble attaching it to a base in its pose), and the etherals sword is getting loose, but other then that everything is as described and ready to go. I can have it shipped on Friday at the latest, hopefully sooner.

Your profile says your in Scotland, I calculated Postage to be around $50 for 6-10 day with International Priority Mail, I assume we will pay our own shipping costs (unless you have unusually high shipping costs, then I can help you since your giving me such a great trade). I wont be able to add a tracking number but I can get a Certificate of Mailing showing that the items have been sent.

So im sending...
2 Tau Codex's (old and new)
Medium Army Transport with trays (holds everything)
3 devilfish (painted, engines glued on)
1 piranha (half way painted)
3 rail rifle path finders (painted)
11 pathfinders (painted)
11 stealth suits, (5 old based black, 6 new, 3 are painted )
10 crises suits, (4 painted, 4 based black, 2 in pieces, includes HQ bits)
3 sniper drones and spotter (painted)
3 broad sides (painted)
36 Fire warriors (painted)
40 gun drones (8 painted)
8 shield drones (painted)
2 missile drones (for devilfish, painted)
1 Etherial (nicely painted)
1 Etherial special character (nicely painted)
1 shadow sun (painted, disasembled)
1 farsight sword arm and shield (unpainted, magnetized to fit on another crises suit)
bag of bits

My address is,
Removed by The Pants

You are sending...
10 man RT Squad of Beakies
30 man vet squads in robes,
30 man tac squads with robed sgt's,
20 man devastator
20 Man assault squads with robed sgts' where possible,
2 Dreadnoughts
2 Techmarines and Servators,
4 Razorbacks / Rhinos,
2 predators
and about 30 extra marines including hvy weapons and several character models and conversions.

As soon as I have your address I'll get the items ready for shipping.

If you have any questions please ask or call.
My Phone Number is 336-909-5910

Groo The Wanderer wrote:Hi there

Excellent, you've got a deal. I was wondering tho, in the pics there were several devilfish, if any of the other devilfish are available, I have a land raider crusader that I could include with the deal for a few of them

My address is
Removed by The Pants

I'll be going to the post office on Saturday and will let you know about the postage costs(been wondering how much its going to cost, but I should be able to cover it). I'll keep in touch and let you know whats going on

Cheers
Lee

Groo The Wanderer wrote:
igenstilch wrote:The other Devilfish were sold when I first posted my army for sale last year. I would love to get the land raider, perhaps if I threw in a brand new skyray? The tank can be a hammer head and devilfish with a simple conversion using a few magnets (which I can throw in as well).
Hi again

Okay, sounds good

Cheers
Lee

Groo The Wanderer wrote:
igenstilch wrote:were you able to get the items in the mail this weekend?
Hi Robert

I will post it tomorrow as I didn't have the funds over the weekend. I'll PM you as soon as it goes

Cheers
Lee

Groo The Wanderer wrote:
igenstilch wrote:Have the items arrived yet?
Hi there

the Army arrived monday and I picked them up yesterday! The marines are boxed up now and I was going to send them today, but they were goingto charge me £70(duble that for dollars, I'm american originally from Texas, and I have found that the charges over here are terrible. I am ging to have to split the lot into 2 packages to make it more managable. I'll do that tonight and keep you up to date on the progress

Cheers
Lee

Groo The Wanderer wrote:
igenstilch wrote:Hope you have solved the shipping problem you encountered. I’m looking forward to the items. I also hope your enjoying the tau. (It’s funny, now that there all gone I find myself wanting to buy the Tau starter army again). =)

In case you are still unable to ship the items. I will need you to change the shipping address. I’m currently at collage and will only be at the previous address for another month. If the items have already been sent this won’t be a problem, but if they have yet to be sent please send them to this address.

Removed by The Pants

My relatives live there and will hold onto the items for me while I travel around. (It’s hard to find a job fresh out of collage with no work experience in your field). I will leave you a positive review once I’m able to inspect the items, which due to travel could take some time.

I understand the difficulty of shipping costs and will be patient, the economy is difficult for all of us these days, please send as soon as possible.
Thanks again!
-Igen (Robert Graham)
Hi there

So sorry for the delay. I am still working on gettng them repacked to lower the costs. The first time I had included a load of spares and bits (they alone weighed in at right at 3lbs.) I work very early and the UK postal service hours are not that flexible Thanks for the patience, you will love the army, I always got good results from them

I will post it to the new address to make sure they are safe and will let you know asap.

Keep in touch, have fun traveling (I remember doing that years ago...) and I'll be in touch!

Cheers
Lee

Groo The Wanderer wrote:
igenstilch wrote:Its been over a month since I shipped to you. Have you sent your items yet?
Hi there

sorry for the delay, there are 4 parcels in total going out this week. had to split it up several times, as the UK royal mail has very strict size/weight limitations. really sorry for the delay, its been a real education I can tell you.

again really sorry, will confirm the postage of the parcels for you
Lee

Re: Your Tau army....

Sent at: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:25 pm
From: Groo The Wanderer
To: igenstilch

Groo The Wanderer wrote:
igenstilch wrote:Its been over a month since I shipped to you. Have you sent your items yet?
Hi there

Ever so sorry for the horible delay, but it is on it's way. You should get it in 7-10 days...

thanks again
Lee

Original photo (last page of customs declaration, sorry for the light text)
Removed by The Pants
Modified photo to better show text
Removed by The Pants

A better copy can be provided upon request.

This posted edited by The Pants per request.

Posted: **Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:19 pm**

I didn't read over your details, but it looks like you've hit all the right stuff... for a Bad Trader Report.
Deadbeats and backouts is a forum for trades that never happen because one person agrees to a deal, then drops off of the face of the Earth (basically).
If he's already received your models and you're not getting anything from him (product or response) and want to report him, that is a "Bad Trader Report."

Additionally, you stated that you would remove this thread when you receive your items... You can't do that, either.
Once you report someone, that report is on the forums to stay. It's permanent record.

Eric

Posted: **Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:22 pm**

Looking at it further, it does appear as if you missed some important info in those [ quote] boxes (and I love, BTW, that you chose to put each message in [ quote] boxes... It makes them easier to read).
You need the header information from the PM.
When copied & pasted, it should look like this (taken from one of my own received PM's):

Re: An opening for humor...
Sent at: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:59 am
From: Shirokuma
To: MagickalMemories

Eric

Posted: **Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:14 pm**

ah, sorry about this missing information. i will go through the emails when i have the time and provide the additional information

Posted: **Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:01 am**

MagickalMemories wrote:I didn't read over your details, but it looks like you've hit all the right stuff... for a Bad Trader Report.

I agree. Perhaps a kindly Admin can move the message.

Also, with International shipping, there can be delays.

Posted: **Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:44 am**

Due to values and such(it appeared this was a high dollar trade) it could be held up in customs also. Just a thought I would toss out.

Posted: **Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:10 am**

I sent an item from an e-bay sale (it was big an bulky) to the Isle of Man about a year ago. It took the package over 2 months to get to the buyer. Just tossing that out.

Posted: **Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:16 pm**

I have talked to Groo recently. He says he can provide documentation for the shipment. I will post the document once I receive it.

Posted: **Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:13 pm**

Hello folks

As I have told Robert Graham, once we decieded to do the trade I would find out the cost of postage (I even remarked that it would most likely be high) and would let him know. When I did finally get the cost it was going to cost £72 for airmail and £55 surface. I told him that those amounts where way to high for me at the moment and I would do what I could to get the costs down (I have saved all PM's to and from Mr Graham and they are available on request, I wouldn't want to breech his privacy) He then told me that he was in the process of moving house and traveling and would be away for a period of time so there was no rush. This was great as nearly $150 for posting the army and bits (the army came up to actually 4500, not to mention loads of bits) would make a deal of this nature normally out of the question.

As I also mentioned I live in a very remote scottish village and the postmistress (a family friend) actually remarked it was the heaviest package she has yet posted abroad. Post anywhere is out of my control once I've posted it.

I greatly object to the publishing of my personal details and have since been informed by solicitors that it violates my privacy and human rights and as such could form the basis of a lawsuit in scottish and U.S. courts.

I have assured to Mr Graham that his package will arrive as I have never faulted on a trade or purchase and I have kept in communication. As Mr Graham had informed me that he was going to be away, I was in no way able to determine when he would be available for contacting.

It is unfortunate that it has come to this as anyone who have dealt with me will testify that I am very generous and fair in my trades and do not want a stain on my reputation.

Many Thanks

Posted: **Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:44 pm**

Groo-
Thats all very nice...but did you ship anything yet?? Any proof/documentation??
Your threat of a lawsuit is silly. Keep your head. You have his stuff, right?? He wants what you promised,thats all. How would you feel if you were in his place?? Getting threatening wont make you look better, showing proof will. By the way, there is nather thread about you in the Deadbeat/Back-out section by AncientSociety. Maybe you should address that as well.

Posted: **Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:09 pm**

starslayer wrote:Groo-
Thats all very nice...but did you ship anything yet?? Any proof/documentation??
Your threat of a lawsuit is silly. Keep your head. You have his stuff, right?? He wants what you promised,thats all. How would you feel if you were in his place?? Getting threatening wont make you look better, showing proof will. By the way, there is nather thread about you in the Deadbeat/Back-out section by AncientSociety. Maybe you should address that as well.

Hello

Yes, the army is posted as I have said before. I am actuall getting the local postal officer to give me the documentation that UK postal offices keep. That will be monday (as the office is closed today for a local event). As for the treat of a lawsuit, it wasn't a thread only my reaction to having my confidental information published. As I see in your info, you do not state everything about yourself, so would you object to such publication without previously giving your consent?

cheers

Posted: **Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:48 pm**

What info. dont I have public?? I think Im even in the public phone book. I dont think he posted your info. maliciously anyway. It was part of this BTR/Back-out thread. Everybody I've dealt with here, 160+ people have my public info/mailing address. Big deal.

I understand you being upset, but you are not empathizing with the other guy. I mean this in a nice way, dont make the situation worse. As of now, you have two non-complimentary threads on you. Getting threatening & playing the victim wont help. Get your proof (when you can) and post it. The facts will speak for themselves.

Posted: **Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:21 pm**

The big thing about dealing with those abroad, is that you are at the whim of customs. Your package may catch there eye one day and it will dissapear as it is investigated. I ship things to a friend in Italy, Now I know that the Italian post is far worse than the UK post. I've had books (simple paperback books, take anywhere from 1 week to 1 month same style shipping) Not sure if the book title had anything to do with it or not (Fear and loathing took a week, Catch-22 took a month)

This simple fact is why many traders refuse to trade outside of their respective country. I'm defending neither side. But when dealing with other countries both sides should expect possible delays due to beaurocratic red tape. A mail service is only efficient inside ones own country, after that you are at someone elses expectation to "good" service.

Posted: **Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:09 pm**

Hi there

I agree. As an American living in the UK, I am aware of both sides. I get post from home all the time, but have lost post as well. I always take care when posting to anywhere (My neighbors here have a home in Hong Kong, and we forward their post here to them all the time) because it is my experience, customs always want a share of everything and duties can come on the siliest of things (My own mother has stopped sending gifts to my children in favor of money because it can be sent in a card).

I send things out at my earliest opertunity, baring in mind I work and the postal service here are local shops and not a national institution like in the states (It is a network of small post offices run by people like you would a convience store back home)

Cheers

Posted: **Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:22 pm**

I would edit the post to remove Groo's address. Though it seems like only an administrator can edit it to remove it. I posted it because in most other trader reports such as this, the address of both parties are posted. I am sorry for causing an issue over Groo's address. I Know for me I have to fill out the customs declaration before shipment, and so I was able to scan my documents right away. Also, I dont want to ruin a good traders reputation, as Groo seemed to have flawless deals on this site prior to the two current trade issues that have been brought up. I also mentioned that I would prefer this post removed once Groo provided documentation. It was originally posted in "Deadbeats & Backouts" as that form is not necessarily for "Bad" traders. Groo mentioned on a few occasions that he would post it within a few days follow the email. Since this didnt happen (until recently, if documentation is provided) and I saw the earlier post about Groo in this form, I feared the worst and posted my case. I felt bad about doing it, since the deal we worked out was to my advantage, and he kept up friendly communication. But I've had friends in almost the same situation, and it turned out they got scammed. I can understand a hard situation, but its frustrating when I post a trade, a deal is made, and I'm the only one able to follow through. I have nothing to show for a deal made over two months ago, other then empty space on my shelf. When he can post the paper work, showing the items were shipped, I will have no complaint against Groo other then the two month delay in shippment.

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Re: Hate to burn a guy, but... Groo The Wanderer

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Re: Hate to burn a guy, but... Groo The Wanderer

Re: Hate to burn a guy, but... Groo The Wanderer

Re: Hate to burn a guy, but... Groo The Wanderer

Re: Hate to burn a guy, but... Groo The Wanderer

Re: Hate to burn a guy, but... Groo The Wanderer

Re: Hate to burn a guy, but... Groo The Wanderer

Re: Hate to burn a guy, but... Groo The Wanderer