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On 06 Apr 15 I was contacted by confusion.elemental concerning a trade post I had previously placed. We agreed to trade my a grouping of my Chaos Demons for a grouping of his Tau infantry. Values were clearly listed by myself and agreed upon on 07 Apr 15. Even though there was agreement, I soon realized some of my models were broken and so raised my side of the bargain to include 7 more bloodletters to make up for a Khorne cannon missing two demons. Since I have lower rating I shipped first on 09 Apr 15. confusion.elemental received these on 13 Apr 15 with no complaint and shipped his side approximately 13 Apr 15. Upon receipt of his end of the bargain, approximately 19 Apr 15, I noted missing models from his end. To date he has made little to no effort, aside from excuses to correct the listed issues.

PM conversation to date (To my knowledge this includes everything that occurred between both of us in PM form):

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:27 am
by confusion.elemental
I have a small Tau force if you are interested.

cadre fireblade
ethereal
x5 metal stealth team
x16 fire warriors
x20 kroot
x4 kroot hounds
x10 path finders
x8 gun drones
x2 shield drones

I am interested in

Land raider redeemer kit on Sprue
NIB Slaanesh Daemonettes
Built, unpainted Defiler
Built and painted Skullcannon
Built and painted bloodthirster
5 metal, painted screamers
3 plastic painted
20 Bloodletters, painted and/or primed

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Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:13 pm
by dorril
Let me take a look at this. just got back from a vacation and will need some time to pour over this. Are you interested in everything listed?

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Sent: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:46 am
by dorril
Alright, looks like I could use the following:

ethereal
x16 fire warriors
x20 kroot
x4 kroot hounds
x10 path finders
x8 gun drones
x2 shield drones

I will check what I have to make sure it is all in good condition. Let me know what you would like to trade for this. I would like to remove the greater demon since it is the old finecast version and I doubt it will make it to you in one piece.

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Sent: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:36 am
by confusion.elemental
how about for

Built and painted Skullcannon
3 plastic painted bloodcrushers
20 Bloodletters, painted and/or primed
3 metal, painted screamers

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Sent: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:44 am
by dorril
If I added the fireplace hq guy to my list and the two other screamers to yours would that be good? Would hate to be left with a piece of a squad.

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Sent: Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:00 pm
by confusion.elemental
That sounds like a deal to me. If we are good with that, my address is

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Sent: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:16 pm
by dorril
When I get home we can recap. I will go over the models again to ensure they are in great shape. To be clear, are the tau the most recent version? I am okay if the ethereal is metal, just want to avoid like 3rd ed models. Also, are they painted/ assembled and with all or most parts/ sprues? Sorry to be so precise, don't want shattered expectations here.

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Sent: Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:12 pm
by confusion.elemental
they are all current, but the ethereal is bare metal. There is some paint on most of the mini's. I can include what spare bits I have

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Sent: Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:31 pm
by dorril
so far it looks like we are here... Take a look and let me know what you think.

I am interested:
ethereal
x16 fire warriors
x20 kroot
x4 kroot hounds
x10 path finders
x8 gun drones
x2 shield drones

You are interested in:
Built and painted Skullcannon (I discovered the bloodletters on the cannon are a bit broken. I am going to search for the bits. should I not find them, I am more than willing to throw in like 5 more bloodletters).
3 plastic painted bloodcrushers (these appear to be in good condition. the bases are not glued so that should facilitate with shipping ease.)
20 Bloodletters, painted and/or primed (did you want two sets of command?)
5 metal, painted screamers (the flight stands are not glued in since I had drilled and added magnets. I can include those magnets as I am almost positive the *edit* GW flight stands will break)

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Sent: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:47 am
by confusion.elemental
Looks right to me. As for the bloodletters, yes I would like 2 sets of command.

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Sent: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:11 pm
by dorril
Alright then, possibly the last time to clarify our order to make sure we are on target:

I will send you:

Built and painted Skullcannon (both bloodletters are in missing or bad shape. however there are two arms holding on. i will provide two extra blood letters which should complete the model very well)
3 plastic painted bloodcrushers (these appear to be in good condition. the bases are not glued so that should facilitate with shipping ease.)
25 Bloodletters, painted and/or primed (2 sets of command to include two standards and two musicians. 7 are painted, 1 is primed black, the rest are grey plastic)
5 metal, painted screamers (the flight stands are not glued in since I had drilled and added magnets. I can include those magnets as I am almost positive the *edit* GW flight stands will break)

You will send:
ethereal
x16 fire warriors
x20 kroot
x4 kroot hounds
x10 path finders
x8 gun drones
x2 shield drones

Please let me know the condition each of these are in / whether they are missing parts / metal / finecast / plastic. Please forgive the attention to detail here. I noticed the one negative feedback amongst the many positive and would prefer that both of our expectations are met.

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Sent: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:04 pm
by confusion.elemental
ethereal (bare metal)
x16 fire warriors (plastic, light paint)
x20 kroot (plastic mostly bare)
x4 kroot hounds (metal, bare)
x10 path finders (plastic, light paint)
x8 gun drones (plastic, light paint)
x2 shield drones (bare metal)

Otherwise the trade looks good.

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Sent: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:11 pm
by dorril
Alright, I will get your end of the deal packed up. Since I have the lower rating I will ship first. I will pack this in a priority box and try to have it out by friday. I will keep you updated.

Shipping here:

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Sent: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:00 am
by confusion.elemental
look forward to getting them.

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Sent: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:31 pm
by dorril
9405 9036 9930 0396 6270 79

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Sent: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:43 am
by confusion.elemental
Thanks for the update.


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Sent: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:43 am
by confusion.elemental
Thanks for the update.

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Sent: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:53 pm
by dorril
outstanding

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Sent: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:50 am
by dorril
Do you have a tracking number?

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Sent: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:24 am
by confusion.elemental
I do, but I need to find it.

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Sent: Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:08 am
by dorril
wow man. Here is what you were to send me.

ethereal (bare metal)
x16 fire warriors (plastic, light paint)
x20 kroot (plastic mostly bare)
x4 kroot hounds (metal, bare)
x10 path finders (plastic, light paint)
x8 gun drones (plastic, light paint)
x2 shield drones (bare metal)

I cant find an ethereal. you send 15 firewarriors, not 16, of which 4 are in complete and unusable. I received 20 kroot as listed. 4 kroot hounds were received but one is missing a leg. I received 8 gun drones and 2 shield drones but only four have flight stands, thus 6 are incomplete. Lastly, you sent 6 metal path finders, 2 plastic, and 5 incomplete path finders.

How will you seek to correct these issues?

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Sent: Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:39 pm
by confusion.elemental
sorry about that, I was out and I asked my wife to package them up for me. She's usually pretty good at it since she plays as well, but it seems she missed few things, tell me exactly what you are missing so I can get them out to you and make this right.

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Sent: Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:01 pm
by dorril
I thought I laid that out alteady. How do you intend to correct this?

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Sent: Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:43 pm
by confusion.elemental
The ethereal should be there, it's not here. I dont know how to replace a missing Fire warrior, all I have left are the 5 or 6 metal stealth suits, a jacked up (issue with legs) crisis suit, and a cadre fireblade. you said 4 fire warriors and 5 Path fiders are incomplete, how incomplete? I can see if I have the missing bots, or order them for you, or paypal you the money to fix them. As for the flight stands I have some spare ones I can send.

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Sent: Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:12 am
by dorril
I will take pictures for you tonight.

Sent: Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:54 pm
by dorril
This is just the drones to show the flight stands.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-H-5r ... G_0248.JPG

These are the pathfinders. Note that the top six are metal and not plastic as advertised. Also, only 8 of these are complete.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-t0wZ ... G_0249.JPG

This picture is of the kroot hounds. note the upper left is missing a leg.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l_On ... G_0250.JPG

Lastly a picture of the firewarriors. Note one square base and the four incomplete tau warriors on the bottom, two of which are missing backpacks.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-eHTY ... G_0251.JPG

And note no picture of a ethereal. Overall it seems that this is a continuing problem for you, as I noted earlier in your previous negative trade review. At this point I would rather just prefer paypal. Does that work for you?

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Sent: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:12 am
by confusion.elemental
How much would you want. And that other guy got everything he was supposed to get in the condition he was supposed to get.

Sent: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:55 am
by confusion.elemental
While we are at it, none of the screamers had their magnetized flying bases, 2 bloodletters were missing their heads, and there was only 1 bloodletter with a horn of chaos, not 2 as advertised.

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Sent: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:00 pm
by dorril
I am glad that you have found some shortcomings for me to correct. Hopefully the following will meet your needs. I would remind you to relook at the previous posts.

You first agreed to accepting 20 blood letters for my part of the trade. When I found that some were subpar I not only increased the blood letters to 25, I included extra to account for the trouble with the skull cannon.

"Built and painted Skullcannon (both bloodletters are in missing or bad shape. however there are two arms holding on. i will provide two extra blood letters which should complete the model very well)."

As far as your concern for the magnitized bases, flight stands were included in my end of the bargain. I will gladly take from your half of the payment the price of 10 small magnets that I used to magnetize those bases. Furthermore I ensured to let you know that I do not guarantee the safe arrival of GW flight stands as they are notoriously terrible.

Lastly, you state you are missing a horn of chaos. Here is a current bit market price. http://hoardobits.com/cgi/hob/shop.pl?c ... 2013-10-21
The command set, more than what you are looking for is running for $3.59.


Now...
conservatively an ethereal goes for $16.
Pathfinders typically go for $35 for ten plastic guys and two drones. Conservatively, and Ill pardon the lack of drones since I didn't specify earlier, pathfinders would go for $2.92 a model. since I am missing two that would bring the pathfinders up to $5.84.
Kroot hounds go for $24.75 for four. I am missing a leg which effectively makes one model useless. Unless you know of a better alternative, a replacement would cost $6.18.
The firewarrior kit goes for $36.25. divide that by 14 models and you end up with $2.59 per model. given that four models are incomplete that would bring the total here to $10.36.

As for magnets I use http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=1.

Note the DH101, 1/10" dia. x 1/32" thick, Nickel Plated, Axially Magnetized
This tends to work well for magnetizing. at $0.9 for a pack of ten.

By this math our grand total comes out to $38.38. Subtract the 90 cents and $3.59 from the $38.38 and we end $33.89.

Sent: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:03 pm
by dorril
forgive me, I neglected shipping costs for both of us. I figure though, since we would both have those expenses it would be easiest to call that even.

Sent: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:12 pm
by dorril
Lastly, let me point something out for you. I shipped first. You had every opportunity to let me know about deficiencies. You made no comments or concerns known. I find it wonderful that you wait to find issue with my side of the bargain after I inform you that you have to failed to deliver as promised. My recommendation would be to make some effort on your part to correct the aforementioned problems. I'm not gonna lose any sleep should you decide to do something else. I will however, follow barter town protocol to ensure that future traders will be well informed. Simply put, are you going to make an effort to fix this or go another direction?

Sent: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:53 pm
by dorril
Alright, moment of truth. Are you going to make an effort to address the previously stated grievances? I will take a lack of response as a no.

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Sent: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:25 pm
by confusion.elemental
Sorry for not responding sooner. My maternal grandmother died and I had to travel to Georgia for the funeral. I get back home late Saturday night and I'll look over your messages closer on Sunday when I can do it on my computer as opposed to my small phone screen.

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Sent: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:29 pm
by dorril
First off, my condolences and I hope she went as painlessly as possible. Second, thank you.

Sent: Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:17 pm
by dorril
Alright I will take your lack of effort as an unwillingness to move forward.

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Supporting Info:
Note that this trader has repeated two issues in the previous BTR. 1) This trader has misrepresented what he intended to send and 2) he has failed to correct the identified issues.

Tracking numbers:
Mine 9405 9036 9930 0396 6270 79
His Never sent

Paypal was not used.
I noted one previous negative trade listed as follows which references a BTR for the same issue.
Refer to this link for the Bad Trader Report - viewtopic.php?f=103&t=246222 Chris failed to accurately describe his items not once, but twice, in the same trade. Beware when dealing with Chris. Be sure to ask for specifics and detailed pictures or you may end up with random, unusable bits like I did.

Previous BTR: viewtopic.php?f=103&t=246222

His Address:
Chris Dicks
4090 weber rd
Whitehall, mi 49461

In Closing:

At this point I have only attempted to get a solution to this deal. I file this in the hopes of preventing further issues for other traders. As I take official action I will be posting follow ups.

Negative feedback to come.

I've PMed him a link to this and asked him to chime in.

Eric

Thank you.

Sorry if my Grandmother's death has been an inconvience to everyone, getting on Bartertown has not been exactly a high priority for me having to deal with will problems and such. Personally right now I am having a hard time to really care about this issue, given that I am having to deal with a mother who is borderline suicidal over this matter, in addition to the number of other problems I am having to deal with because of this. So do what the crap ever you like, right now this issue is the last thing I really care about.

Again, my condolences. Please note the dates listed above and the lack of response for quite some time. But again, this was posted to warn others more so than to get my pound of flesh.

confusion.elemental wrote:Sorry if my Grandmother's death has been an inconvience to everyone, getting on Bartertown has not been exactly a high priority for me having to deal with will problems and such. Personally right now I am having a hard time to really care about this issue, given that I am having to deal with a mother who is borderline suicidal over this matter, in addition to the number of other problems I am having to deal with because of this. So do what the crap ever you like, right now this issue is the last thing I really care about.

Respectfully said... you need to take a deep breath.
I understand loss. It sucks and, giving you the benefit of the doubt here, you have my condolences.

That said, you were able to get on here on your phone on the 24th and shoot off a quick message via your phone. In the last week(ish), there HAS to have been a time you could have done it again. Heck, you had to take a dump at some point. Right? You haven't gone a week without doing THAT. You could've popped on with your phone while on the Throne and just said, "Still dealing with the aftermath of my grandmother. Things are getting stressful with my family. I haven't forgotten you. I WILL get back to you when things calm down here."
You could've PMed that and STILL had time to wipe.

So, with ALL due respect, BTown not being a priority because of all those other things you're dealing with holds little water.

Look man. You've got a decent rating. You didn't get there by accident. Keep people updated and you WILL get a bit of leeway. Someone at your level knows it's important to let people know what's going on... and there's always a way to find time to do that if you're conscious and moving under your own power.

Eric

After having some time to think I have had a change of heart. The outraged-down-on-his-luck-chap is not only over played, its also entirely irrelevant in this situation. Regardless of any hard times that have befallen you or your family, you entered into a bargain / economic exchange. You have previously misrepresented yourself in trade with another individual on bartertown. You not once, but twice, misrepresented your products to me even after I asked for clarification. Lastly, after receiving and finding no fault with my end of the bargain, you knowingly sent an incorrect / faulty / misrepresented product to me. Since then you have made absolutely no effort to correct this. I have since offered a way out for you. See above. Here is another. You can pay me the cost of what I shipped to you plus the cost of shipping your product back to you. Hell, you can even offer some other option.

Regardless. Should you make no effort to correct this ongoing issue, I will be pressing charges five days from this point. I will update further as things change.

I was going to suggest you find another way to communicate that to him, so as to be certain he receives it...

Last visited:
Mon May 04, 2015 8:54 pm

Then I looked at his profile. As of right now, he's been on within the last 2 hours. If he hasn't seen it, it's his own fault.

Eric

Thanks. pm'd today.

You know, the ironic thing in all this, is the day I responded to your BRT post, I had intended to ask for your paypal address to send you the funds. But when I saw the BTR post it was just the last straw in a really bad week and so I responded harsher then I should have. But then you decided that you just couldn't wait, so you had to leave negative feedback for me, which removed any incentive I had to rectify this situation. You are far more concerned with little plastic toys then you are with the fact that someone's life might be falling apart, your complete lack of respect and deceny for another human being is saddening at best. I just received a box today for a trade that should ave been concluded before you and I even made a deal, but I didn't get all pissey and act like a child. Crap happens in peoples lives, things take a higher priority then toys, if you cant understand that, then your life will be full of disapointment.

oh and for the record, I did send the Ethereal, perhaps you just missed it. Makes me wonder what else you missed.

Again, and for the last time, you have a history of doing this precise thing. Ergo, I don't need nor care for your excuses. You packed a box and sent the wrong stuff. Sure it is possible that I misplaced an etheral. But how does my inability to locate it transfer to the other issues I mentioned?

You are absolutely right that stuff happens in life. Everyday as a matter of fact. In business, that doesn't matter. I don't need life lessons from you.

I am so glad that you intended to solve the problem by preparing to ask for my paypal address, that is very noble of you. I offered you a way out, multiple in fact. Rather than deal with it, you throw insults my way and attempt to make me the bad guy. You do realize the moderators are watching this, correct? They have the ability to rescind a negative feedback should you have actually conducted yourself as an adult and worthwhile member of bartertown. Rather you have chosen to put blame on me. Fine sir, I hope your bluster was worth it.

confusion.elemental forgot to post the entire message he sent my way. His lack of concern for inappropriate trading on this site is great stuff.

Sent: Tue May 05, 2015 5:09 pm
From: confusion.elemental(68)
To: dorril

go ahead and press charges, if you honestly think anything is going to come of it. It would, at best be classified as a civil matter and have to handled in civil court. Which means you would have to sue me in small claims court in my home county. Your claims are invalid, I at no time intended to decieve you, any attempt on your behalf would fall on deaf ears as you have zero proof of my intention to decieve you. Proving motive is an incredibly difficult thing to do in a sitaution like this, so good luck with all that.

You know, the ironic thing in all this, is the day I responded to your BRT post, I had intended to ask for your paypal address to send you the funds. But when I saw the BTR post it was just the last straw in a really bad week and so I responded harsher then I should have. But then you decided that you just couldn't wait, so you had to leave negative feedback for me, which removed any incentive I had to rectify this situation. You are far more concerned with little plastic toys then you are with the fact that someone's life might be falling apart, your complete lack of respect and deceny for another human being is saddening at best. I just received a box today for a trade that should ave been concluded before you and I even made a deal, but I didn't get all pissey and act like a child. Crap happens in peoples lives, things take a higher priority then toys, if you cant understand that, then your life will be full of disapointment.

so wierd that now all of a sudden you wish to sound ameniable, when just a few days ago you didn't give a crap about the stuff I was going through. Somehow the fact that I was dealing with several serious issues in another part of the country seemed irrelivent to you. I was supposed to put my grandmothers funeral issues aside, along with dealing with a suicidal mother, and a sister who had just discovered a mass around her overies, and rush to deal with your $38 issue over some plastic toys. Now your threatening me with charges, and I'm supposed to get all weak kneed and worried. Yes the deal crossed state lines, but your trying to accuse me of intentianal misreprentation, yet you have no evidence of this. I have done dozens of trades and only 2 have not gone well, this is not a 'pattern of behavior' as you so wish to try and put it.

You never offered me multiple ways out, you only wanted money, you specificly said you didn't want me to send any of the missing pieces, so quit trying to play the martyr. You decided to be the uncaring one that escelated this, you are the one trying to threaten me with filing charges, so yeah I would say your acting a bit like a prick. I've waited far longer for a package and still left positive feedback, because I understand things happen in peoples live. So go ahead and continue and act the way you do. I have said me piece, I see no further reason to keep this pointless back and forth. This has clearly devolved and is going nowhere, you chose your path when you decided not to wait and escelate this situation. Did I make a mistake in not sending everything, and I had hoped to resolve this issue, but your lack of understanding and patience has us where we are.

Just read above.