Bartertown.com

I feel kind of embarrassed about getting myself into this situation with the BT member Dreamseller, but I feel it's best to still warn BT about a possible fraudulent seller.

A week ago I contacted Dreamseller about a rather large set of Dark Elves, Orcs and Goblins, and Lizardmen he had for sale (the post is shown here. We worked out a price for the whole set, and a partial payment plan, which consisted of sending $200 now, and the remainder on arrival, pending everything in the first shipment was kosher. Initially our communication was good and he replied quickly, so I felt like I had a legit deal going. Also, the items he had listed didn't seem to be something would run a scam with; the conditions were well described (some NIB, some primed, etc), and it seemed like a rather random list to create out of thin air. However in my zeal I sent the payment before checking out his background as well as a I should, and now have come to the belief this seller was running a scam.

After I sent payment several facts came to light which are rather suspicious. First all communication has stopped with the seller; he's ignored all my messages through BT, email, and even through paypal. I realized the only feedback he had, from a BT member Yamaha Fan, had the same email address the paypal payment had been sent to. Obviously this points to Dreamseller leaving feedback for himself using the name Yamaha Fan. Throughout my communications with him he used the name "Martin", however on the paypal receipt the name was Kurt Scherwitzl. Finally, the email address he gave me was from an email service GMX, which is basically only used in Germany!

I feel like a fool about not noticing these facts before payment was sent. I've since contacted paypal and put a hold on the payment (it's currently in dispute), though I still haven't heard from Dreamseller. I'm hoping this isn't a sign he's already transferred the money out of paypal, though only time will tell.

I'm still interested in the items if the seller is legit, though I think he has some serious questions that need answering before we complete this sale and anyone else on BT deal with him.

Here are the PM's we sent each other when working out the deal. I've sent a few PM's since then that haven't shown up in my sent box which basically asked questions about the facts I've discovered. I've yet to receive any reply:

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From: uatu13 ( 256 )
To: Dreamseller
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:22 am
Subject: Fantasy
Hey, how much did you want for the following? Individual prices and a set would be cool, thanks!

30 witch elves unprimed; still in box current ed.
1 warhydra onglued, unprimed current edition
1 limited DE army standard bearer glued, unprimed c.e.
1 Darkbalde on Cold one unprimed, unglued c.e.
3 LE Darkblade on foot unprimed, unglued, still in blister
LE Lizardmen Army standard bearer
1 River Troll
15 Squig hoppers Unprimed, unglued

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From: Dreamseller ( 2 )
To: uatu13
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:44 am
Subject: Re: Fantasy
uatu13 wrote:
Hey, how much did you want for the following? Individual prices and a set would be cool, thanks!

30 witch elves unprimed; still in box current ed.
1 warhydra onglued, unprimed current edition
1 limited DE army standard bearer glued, unprimed c.e.
1 Darkbalde on Cold one unprimed, unglued c.e.
3 LE Darkblade on foot unprimed, unglued, still in blister
LE Lizardmen Army standard bearer
1 River Troll
15 Squig hoppers Unprimed, unglued


Hi!

The single prices:

35$
12$
10$
8$
30$
12$
10$
20$

As a set price I would offer you 105$.

What do you say?

Cheers,

Martin

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From: uatu13 ( 256 )
To: Dreamseller
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:04 am
Subject: Re: Fantasy
That sounds pretty good, do you have pics? Also, do you have a problem with shipping first since you only have 1 feedback? I may buy more if this isn't a problem. Let me know, thanks!

Jeff

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From: uatu13 ( 256 )
To: Dreamseller
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:06 am
Subject: Re: Fantasy
Also, just out of curiosity, what do you want for each of the armies and for everything?

Thanks!

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From: Dreamseller ( 2 )
To: uatu13
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:56 am
Subject: Re: Fantasy
Hi!

I would aks you, to pay the half of the money before I send the items, and the other half after you recept the items.

Martin.sickl@gmx.net

For each army?

DE: 400$
LM: 260"
Orcs: 300$

Cheers,

Martin

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From: uatu13 ( 256 )
To: Dreamseller
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:55 pm
Subject: Re: Fantasy
Hey, I'm really interested in both the Lizardmen and Dark Elves armies together. Would it be possible to get pics? Is everything current edition, complete, and unpainted?

Also, at the very least it would be awesome if you could hold the following for me, no matter what I will be buying this stuff for the prices you quoted me in your previous email, and will almost certainly be buying more. Thanks!

1 warhydra onglued, unprimed current edition
1 limited DE army standard bearer glued, unprimed c.e.
3 LE Darkblade on foot unprimed, unglued, still in blister
LE Lizardmen Army standard bearer
15 Squig hoppers Unprimed, unglued

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From: uatu13 ( 256 )
To: Dreamseller
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:00 pm
Subject: Re: Fantasy
Hey, also, for the Orcs, is any of the stuff from the BFSP box set, or is all of it the individually sold models that were just released (spider riders, night goblins, giant, boss on boar, etc)? Thanks again!

Jeff

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From: uatu13 ( 256 )
To: Dreamseller
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:25 pm
Subject: Re: Fantasy
Hey, sorry for the duplicate messages. Here's the thing. I'm actually very interested in purchasing all 3 lots you have listed, but want to do it in the safest way possible for both of us. First off, would you be willing to sell all 3 armies together for like $875 shipped?

If so, would you be willing to hold onto the O&G and LM armies while we completed the first deal for the Dark Elves (half now, half on arrival)? If everything went smoothly I'd be willing to then send the full remainder for the O&G and the LM armies. Also, do you accept credit cards through paypal (it's nice to get the protection of a CC)? Finally, do you have a phone number I could contact you at? Mine is 541-334-6870.

Let me know about the info from the other PM's I sent and hopefully we can work out a deal that's satisfactory for both of us, thanks!

Jeff

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From: Dreamseller ( 2 )
To: uatu13
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:47 am
Subject: Re: Fantasy
Hi!

All armies are current ed. models. Orcs are the individual sold models.
Price is fine.

Credit card is no problem.

My paypal account's number: YFL@gmx.net

THanks a lot. Items will be shipped safety, insuranced and well packaged.

Cheers,

Martin

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From: uatu13 ( 256 )
To: Dreamseller
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:04 pm
Subject: Re: Fantasy
Thanks for the info.

So will it work if I send the $200 now for the DE and $200 on arrival while you hold the O&G and LM armies, then the remaining $475 for the other two armies pending the first sale concluding well? I can also send the remaining $475 for the LM and O&G armies split up into separate payments if it would make things safer for shipping and easier for you?

It would also be a great idea to get insurance and tracking numbers on everything shipped, don't want the PO messing this one up! Just to be clear, you still have all the items in your original post, correct (the list is below just to be sure)?

Also, it would be great to get your address and phone number, my info's below.

Let me know, thanks!

Jeff Wille
1726 Estate Dr
Eugene, OR 97405
541-334-6870


(ALL CURRENT EDITION)
Dark Elves:

Army book current ed.
Army book last ed.
80 Dark Elf warriors unglued, unprimed, in box current ed.
46 Black corsairs 10 are primed black others are unprimed current ed.
60 witch elves unprimed; still in box current ed.
3 witch elf command groups
2 corsair command groups
15 cold one knights primed black current ed.
2 warhydras onglued, unprimed current edition
4 chariots unglued, unprimed current edition
2 Witch king on black dragon unprimed, unglued c.e.
3 bolt throwers primed black, unglued c.e.
40 black guards unprimed, unglued, still in box c.e.
2 black guard command groups unprimed, unglued in blister c.e.
2 beastmasters on manticor unprimed, unglued, still in box c.e.
1 limited DE army standard bearer glued, unprimed c.e.
1 Darkbalde on Cold one unprimed, unglued c.e.
3 LE Darkblade on foot unprimed, unglued, still in blister
1 Sorceress unprimed, unglued c.e.
2 cauldron of blood unprimed, unglued, in box c.e.
Morathi on Dark Pegasus unprimed, unglued still in blister c.e.


Lizardmen:

Army book c.e.
Lord Kroak unprimed, unglued c.e.
Tenehauin unprimed, unglued in blister c.e.
Lord Kroak primed black, c.e.
48 Skinks unprimed, unglued in box
64 Saurus warriors unprimed, unglued c.e.
5 salamanders unprimed, unglued, c.e.
2 Stegadon unprimed, unglued in box c.e.
10 Terradons unprimed, unglued, c.e.
30 Temple guard unprimed, unglued, still in box
10 cold one knights primed black, c.e.
Kroq Gar on carnosaur unprimed, unglued c.e.
LE Army standard bearer unprimed, unglued c.e.


Orcs and goblins:

Army book c.e.
Grimgor Ironhide unprimed, c.e.
Skarsnik and Gobbla unprimed c.e.
3 giants one is glued, others are neither gued, nor primed c.e.
5 River Trolls Unprimed, unglued c.e.
15 Squig hoppers Unprimed, unglued
3 boar chariots 2 are glued and primed black, last is none of both
2 wolf chariots unglued, unprimed c.e.
35 orc boar riders unprimed, unglued, c.e.
20 black orcs unprimed, unglued c.e.
20 black orcs with great weapons unprimed, unglued c.e.
57 orc boys unglued, unprimed c.e.
20 goblin wolf riders unglued, unprimed c.e.
40 goblin spider riders glued, unprimed c.e.
60 night goblins primed black, glued c.e.
orc warboss on wyvern unglued, unprimed in box c.e.
orc warboss on boar unglued, unprimed c.e.


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From: Dreamseller ( 2 )
To: uatu13
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:10 pm
Subject: Re: Fantasy
It will work.

Cheers,

Martin

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From: uatu13 ( 256 )
To: Dreamseller
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:49 pm
Subject: Re: Fantasy
Hey, just wanted to let you know I sent the first payment for the Dark Elves lot. Let me know when they ship and what the tracking info is for the set. As soon as they arrive and look good I can send the remainder of the payment for the Dark Elves as well as the O&G and Lizardmen armies. Thanks for holding the other armies while we complete the deal.

Also, it would still be great to get your phone number and Let me know, thanks!

Jeff Wille
1726 Estate Dr
Eugene, OR 97405

In reference to the huge NO NO of posting references for yourself, I would contact the Mods directly. They can check up and determine if the trader did indeed do this.

I hope you used a CC for your payment as he did give you the OK.

This is tough because it's been such a short period of time since you sent payment. Chances are that it wouldn't have made it to you yet since he probably used a cheaper mailing rate for the bulk package.... 7-10 days.

I wouldn't be too worried at this point. Not everyone checks back daily when they've got trades pending (I do). He may not have even thought about it. Hopefully this is a simple misunderstanding between 2 good people. It'd be a shame to see you get scammed twice in this short a time frame.

Be prepared for this guy to be pissed if he is legit. I probably wouldn't appreciate a BTR after 6 days.

I was watching this guy (YAMAHA FAN) 2 weeks ago and suspected he was up to no good, but couldn't prove anything.

YAMAHA FAN gave me the same paypal address to pay him at as he did you (as YAMAHA FAN), I did not know he had a second account (dreamseller; ironic username in this instance).

Sorry to say, but you're out of luck, probably in all cases.

Unless I'm mistaken, this guy doesn't even live in the US.

I will post as much info as I have on him as soon as I'm able.

If I were you, I would do everything ing my power to reverse any sort of payment you sent him.

Update:

According to Paypal his name is Kurt Scherwitzl; his email address is German.

He was posing under the address and name of a gaming store (and its owner) in West Virginia.


When I suspected him the first time, he was using the username YAMAHA FAN and trying to sell Tyranids (all of which he claimed were new in the box, and he said he was getting out of the hobby. How can you get out of the hobby if you were never IN it?) with the paypal address YFL@gmx.net.

Obviously, he couldn't provide pictures of any of his merchandise, and just to be sure, I pulled all of his trade ads.

I guess that's when he made the second account.

Yeah, I understand it's only been a short period of time and there's no way the items would have made it to me by now, but I think the suspicious facts have kind of built up against this seller. I thought I should take action before it's too late.

Hey, I hope he is legit, I'm still interested in these items, though I doubt I'll ever see anything. I talked to paypal over the phone (as much help as that is) and they say they're in control of the funds while it's being disputed, though I've had similar situations in the past where they weren't able to recover anything. I did pay for part of the payment with a credit card ($66 of it was from funds I had in my PP account), so hopefully I'll be able to recover some of the money if paypal craps out on me.

I have no idea why this seller hasn't responded to any of the messages paypal and I have sent him, so hopefully he'll take notice of this post and respond to some of my concerns.

He's not legit.

He has a confirmed double account and has left himself feedback.

He's going to be banned as soon as Lin gets online.


Get your money back however you can.

Good job Sid.

Good job Utua. This goes to show it's never too early.

I know of at least one other person he's taken on this site, and I'm sure more will surface over the next few days. I only hope they can cancel their payments before it's too late.

As for what can be legally done, I have no experience with international fraud, so I cannot advise.

Yep, he got me to. I was suppose to get some dark elves from him as well. One of which was the LE standard bearer he made a deal with someone else. I ll try and cancel the paypal payment, but this is my first time with something like this.

Horthgar

The e mail he used in my paypal transaction was Martin.Sickl@gmx.net.

Horthgar: Start a thread, post your proof, leave him a negative and IMMEDIATELY begin proceedings with PayPal.

Do this in the REVERSE order of how I listed them.

Uatu13:
The following 2 quotes from him would have put me immediately at unease:

I would aks you, to pay the half of the money before I send the items, and the other half after you recept the items.

THanks a lot. Items will be shipped safety, insuranced and well packaged.

Barring the spelling errors (we all make typing & spelling mistakes and some traders are disgustingly atrocious at spelling), you'll notice certain grammatical errors that a native english speaker wouldn't make.


...after you recept the items...

A native speaker wouldn't say, "receipt." He'd say "receive."

...shipped safety, insuranced...

"Safety" by itself could be chalked up to a spelling error. that's fine. "Insuranced," however? Again, no native speaker would say insuranced.

Now, I understand that there are planty of non-native speakers in countries who use English as a first language... but it would have immediately aroused my suspicion.



This incident further illustrates my "Lower rating? You ship first" rule. I do not care if it is trade or purchase. I refuse to put myself on the line for any trader who has not yet proven himself to me.
To any who feel that the buyer should pay first, regardless of feedback, I point to the above as proof that I (as well as those who agree with me) am right.


U... My condolences, bro. I hope you're successful @ getting your funds back.
Remember... if you are not satisfied with PayPal (which would not be a big surprise), go through your credit card company.
Do not settle for less than 100% from PayPal. Any less, and have your credit card company go after it.


Eric

It just cheeses me off that i knew this guy was a scammer, but I couldn't prove it because he hadn't DONE anything yet.

You and me both Sid.. I thought I sent something to Lin or Morlock on it but i must not have... I've been watching his posts...

The pay half first on a 2 rating.. just didn't fly with me either MM..

Sorry Utau.. good luck with paypal.

I wouldn't pay it on a 2, a 52 or a 102 if it didn't feel right.

Granted, it's not likely that a 52 or 102 wouldn't feel right... but you get the idea.


Eric

I almost made a purchase from Dreamseller, but he ceased all communication after 1st. I attempted to follow up several times, but he never responded.