Bartertown.com

After 3 years and over 200 transactions, I unfortunately have to post my first BTR.

On June 8th, Sean Masten (bam4k) and I agreed to swap my oop Dwarf war machines for his Dwarf Ironbreakers. My package was delivered to him on June 13th. After some delays with shipping and communication, I finally received the Ironbreakers on July 5th--however, some of the models were missing. I let Sean know about the discrepency, but it has now been 3 days with no response or Bartertown visit from him.

As I mention in my PMs with Sean, the consistently slow/poor communication is at least as big a factor as the missing models as far as why I'm posting a BTR and most likely a negative reference as well. While losing out on a handful of models is certainly annoying, it's the way the transaction has been handled that is more frustrating... and why I feel I have a responsibility to alert other Bartertown members to potential problems in future dealings with this member.

Here's the PM history, starting with Sean's initial response to my listing. To make it easier to read, my PMs will be in blue and Sean's will be in red.

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:56 pm
by bam4k

Do you have any OOP Flame Cannons or Grudge Throwers?

Subject: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs, $$

JT19 wrote:WANT

DWARFS

Ironbreakers - looking for a unit of 30 Ironbreakers with command... but don't need to get them all in one trade. Will trade for just a few at a time if needed. I have Hammerers, Longbeards, metal oop Miners, and other Dwarfs to trade for these. May even be willing to buy if the price is good enough.


HAVE

DWARFS
20x Longbeards (bare metal)
20x Hammerers (bare metal)
20x Miners (oop metal)
Thorek Ironbrow and Anvil of Doom (NIB, Finecast)
Thorgrim Grudgebearer and Throne of Power (NIB, Finecast)
Limited Edition White Dwarf (NIB)
Master Engineer with Handgun (NIB)
Daemon Slayer
Daemon Slayer with Great Weapon
Dragon Slayer with Great Weapon
Runelord with Great Weapon
Thane with Battle Standard
Ungrim Ironfist
Garagrim Ironfist
Kragg the Grim
Drong the Hard
Queen Helga
Bolt Thrower (Finecast)
Grudge Thrower (Finecast)
possibly other Dwarfs... let me know what you're looking for!


PAYPAL
May be willing to buy Ironbreakers outright, depending on asking price. Let me know...


Thanks!

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:07 pm
by JT19

I have a few coming in trade... should be here any day. One older oop Flame Cannon and two oop Grudge Throwers. A picture is attached to show which models for the Flame Cannon and one Grudge Thrower... the other Grudge Thrower is on the way in a separate trade.

I love those old Grudge Throwers especially (they are soooo much better looking than the current model), so not too keen to trade them unless the deal is right. But let me know if these are the ones you meant, and what you might have in mind for a trade.

EDIT: the Flame Cannon and Grudge Thrower in the picture just came in the mail today!

Thanks,

Jim

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:40 pm
by bam4k

Those are the ones I speak of! I would like at least one more of the stone throwers and one or two flame cannons. I would be willing to work out a trade for iron breakers. I have a dwarf lot comming in the mail that is supposed to have a few more of them, so I SHOULD be able to get a full 30 together. If not I know I have the 26 or so with command we spoke of before. Let me know what you think is a fair deal.

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:49 pm
by bam4k

I just did a count, I have 29 w/FC here and a few more on the way mixed in with a larger trade.

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:53 pm
by JT19

If you can get a full set of 30 with command, what about trading them for the 2 Grudge Throwers (I would want to keep them together as a pair), the Flame Cannon, and an oop Bolt Thrower?

Of course, we would have to wait until all models are in hand before finalizing a trade, since we'd both be waiting on at least one piece. I would also need to double check to make sure that I have all the correct crew members, as these came in trades and sometimes people don't always send the original crew with the oop models.....

Let me know what you think...

Thanks,

Jim

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:55 pm
by bam4k

That sounds fair. Consider it a deal unless some pending trade falls through of course.

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:59 pm
by JT19

OK. The other Grudge Thrower should be here Monday or Tuesday. When it arrives, I'll verify all crew and get back to you.

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:17 pm
by JT19

OK... just checked the crew against the pictures at Stuff of Legends. Not all crew is original (details below).

Let me know ASAP if this is a deal-breaker.

Bolt Thrower - has all 3 original crew.

Grudge Thrower/Rock Lobber - has original crew members #1 and #2; crew #3 holding the rock has been replaced with the Crew #1 guy from the cannon.

Flame Cannon - has original loader (the big guy with the barrel under his arm), the swabber has been replaced with the one from the cannon, and the master gunner has been replaced with Crew #1 from the cannon (same as the one with the Rock Lobber).

Thanks!

Jim

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:01 pm
by bam4k

That is fine. It will help break them up from the other crews anyways.

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:14 pm
by JT19

Got the other Grudge Thrower/Rock Lobber today, and it's in good shape--primed black and has all three original crew members.

If you send me your address quickly enough, I will put them in the mail today!

Here's mine:

[...address removed...]

P.S. All of the Ironbreakers have their shields, correct?

Thanks!

Jim

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:42 pm
by bam4k

I am still waiting on the last iron breaker to show up this week. My address is:

Sean Masten
[... street address removed... ]
Waverly, OH 45690

I made an exception to my "lower rating ships first" policy here... mainly for convenience, since I was heading to the Post Office to mail a bunch of other packages anyway.

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:27 pm
by JT19

No worries on the wait... I just figured I'd ship since I was headed to the Post Office anyway.

Tracking number is 9505510380293161546931, and should be there Wednesday.

Thanks,

Jim

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:41 am
by bam4k

It will be Thursday then! I live in the sitcks and it is always one day later than they say. Anyways, I got my package today. Send me your info and I will get your 30 ironbreakers in the mail.

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:04 am
by JT19

[...address removed...]

Thanks!

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:18 am
by bam4k

If not later today, it will be on its way Wednesday for sure.

9 days later....

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:15 am
by JT19

Just wanted to follow up... did the Ironbreakers get sent yet?

Thanks,

Jim

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:36 pm
by bam4k

According to my wife they did! If you have not got them yet (and I am assuming that you have not) I will have her find the receipt so I can get a tracking number. She is the one who took it to the post office one day last week when she went to town. I will get back with you ASAP. I am sorry for the issue, I am not sure why there is one.

2 days later, after no response from Sean...

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:17 pm
by JT19

Any update on these?

I got a notice today for a package that is being held at the post office because postage is due on it... maybe that's it. I'll find out on Monday.

2 more days later, still with no response from Sean...

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:28 pm
by JT19

Nope... the postage due package was from an eBay seller. Didn't come in today's mail, either. Were you able to find tracking number?

The next day, after still no response from Sean, despite his profile showing that he'd logged on to the forum that day...

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:44 pm
by JT19

OK, Sean... sorry for the change of tone here, but it is now two weeks since you said the Ironbreakers were shipped. You ignored my previous request for an update on the tracking number, and now you're ignoring the last PM I sent even though you've been on the forum today.

In addition, I just found this thread in the Deadbeat/Backout section which suggests that this isn't the first time you've ignored private messages:

http://www.bartertown.com/trading/viewt ... 4k#p378384

The difference here is that you already have my models, so it's not simply a backout.

I'm a reasonable guy, and I can deal with snags in trades as long as there is good communication. But now that the models haven't arrived, you haven't provided an update or tracking number, and it appears that you're ignoring my PM's... well, it's starting to not look so good from my end.

I'm going to give you another chance to communicate and let me know what's going on...

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:41 pm
by bam4k

Ok, well I do know that the models went out. I am honestly not sure what is going on (not saying you are at fault or anything). My wife can not seem to produce the receipt. If They do not show up at your place OR returned to me for some reason with in the next day or so, I will ship your models back to you. I am really at a loss as to what has happened with them. I am sorry for this mess.

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:29 am
by JT19

If they were sent out when you said they were, they should have arrived (or been returned to you) by now. Go ahead and send the war machines back to me... and please be sure to get a tracking number this time.

Thanks,

Jim

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:26 pm
by bam4k

I received a mangled box of iron breakers returned to me today. I will head to the post office tomorrow and send you either your stuff back OR the iron breakers. If I do not hear back from you before then I will just send you back your models. Please let me know and I apologize for this whole mess.

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:43 pm
by JT19

That's great! Any indication why they weren't delivered?

Obviously, I'd love to have the Ironbreakers... so as long as nothing is damaged or missing (i.e., everybody has their shields, etc.), go ahead and try sending them again. Just be sure to get tracking this time.

Here's my address again:

[...address removed...]

Thanks!

Jim

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:28 pm
by bam4k

Everything looked to be in order. It seems like the box got damaged and your address was all screwed up after that.

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:32 pm
by JT19

That would explain it! Looking forward to getting the Ironbreakers... and I'm glad that we're headed toward a positive outcome all around.

Thanks!

Jim

So we try again. Despite stating that he'd ship Friday and my request for a tracking number, I don't hear anything until Monday when I have to follow up again:

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:13 am
by JT19

Did you get the Ironbreakers sent yet? Tracking number?

Thanks!

Jim

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:34 pm
by bam4k

Sorry for the delay, we've had some bad weather. Here is the tracking number. I made sure to do it my self.

9505 5105 0075 3182 5862 69

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:38 pm
by JT19

Thanks! I'll be sure to leave a reference once they arrive!

Jim

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:05 pm
by bam4k

Any idea what happened with the package?!?!?

Tracking has is as undeliverable....

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:15 pm
by JT19

I noticed that earlier today. If I had to guess, I'd say you might have written the address incorrectly? Can't think of any other reason USPS would say it's "undeliverable as addressed." Since it went to the Post Office in Lawrenceville (zip 30044) instead of Cumming (30040), it might just be a zip code error.

In that case, it might be on its way back to you and you'll have to try again... or they might look at the city and figure out where it's supposed to go.

I was waiting for the next update to see if it gets re-routed towards me, or end up getting returned to sender. Since today is a postal holiday, we probably won't know anything until tomorrow.

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:44 pm
by JT19

Package was delivered today... but we have another problem. There are only 26 guys and 25 shields. There were supposed to be 30 of each.

Looking back over our correspondence, I see that at one point you mentioned having 26 Ironbreakers with command before receiving a few more Ironbreakers in trade... but there were no command models in this lot. I also asked you to verify that everything was there when the package was returned to you, before sending them back to me???

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:22 pm
by bam4k

*facepalm* did you get command?

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:35 pm
by JT19

Nope. I received 26 rank-and-file Ironbreakers with 25 shields.

2 days later, with no response from Sean...

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:04 pm
by JT19

And... no response?

It's been more than 2 days, and you haven't indicated how this might have happened or how you intend to make it right. As I mentioned before, I'm pretty easy to deal with when it comes to resolving issues... I just expect good communication during the process.

Thanks!

And now today, after a third day with no response from Sean....

Re: [W] Ironbreakers [H] Hammerers, Longbeards, more Dwarfs,
Sent: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:16 pm
by JT19

Just FYI... I will be posting a BTR for this transaction. It's now been 3 days since your last communication and you haven't even bothered to check your PMs. This isn't about the models... I would have been fairly understanding and easy to deal with in terms of resolving the trade. But the missing models in combination with the delays in shipping and your consistently slow/poor communication (especially in the midst of a transaction with issues) leave me no choice but to make the Bartertown community aware so that they can make an informed decision about any future dealings with you.

After more than a month of waiting for his end of the trade to show up, then finding that models were missing despite me asking him to verify that everything was there before shipping, I'm pretty much ready to write off the missing guys as a loss and a "lesson learned" about making exceptions to "lower rating ships first."

Although I would love to see this resolved and receive the missing models, that's not the real issue here as far as I'm concerned. I just find it inexcusable in a trade like this with several snags on his end (the shipping issue may have been beyond his control, but the missing models certainly weren't), that communication is constantly an issue. Especially after being informed that there were missing models... to not even bother coming back to Bartertown for three days--much less provide any kind of a response--just doesn't sit well with me.

Again, at this point the BTR isn't really about getting the missing models as much as giving all of the reputable traders I've dealt with on Bartertown over the years a heads-up that this trader might not be up to your standards. Even if I do receive the missing models at some point, I wouldn't be able to give this transaction more than a "neutral" rating. And either way, I won't be dealing with him again, simply because I expect better communication in my transactions.

It's now been 4 days with no response. I will wait until 7 days have passed with no contact before I post a negative reference on the transaction. If bam4k contacts me before then and arranges to send the missing models, I will wait to receive them and then post a neutral reference.

Couple of things I would like to point out.

1. As what Jul said in the BTR topic on Tomb King1:

jul wrote: You cannot say:" do this and you get a good reference" or "if you don't do that, i'll give a bad one"
J

2. Please provide us the full address on bam4k, this will help the mods out more on his where abouts.

3. If you have his email address, try and see if bam4k has a Facebook account (Or askthe admins if they can give you the link to his FB profile). You may be able to comunicate from there.

I'm sorry that you didn't get what was promised, but at least you know why some people on here (Like me) uses the feedback system when trading. I do hope you get the Dwarf command, or at least money to compensate for the lost items. I'll leave the rest to the mods to help you out if they can.

-Johnny

Garlicson2 wrote:Couple of things I would like to point out.

1. As what Jul said in the BTR topic on Tomb King1:

jul wrote: You cannot say:" do this and you get a good reference" or "if you don't do that, i'll give a bad one"
J

OK... in that case, I would ask that the Moderators please remove anything I posted if it breaks the rules (not that they need my permission!). It was not my intention to use it as any kind of "threat" to influence the other trader's actions, as much as clarification for the Bartertown community regarding why the negative reference has not yet been posted, or why I might still consider a neutral. I received a few PMs stating that I'd be way too generous to leave a neutral rating for this transaction, so I hoped to clarify.

But I see the point being made, and have no problem with it being removed. I don't believe I can edit previous posts in this section, however.

2. Please provide us the full address on bam4k, this will help the mods out more on his where abouts.

If the Moderators ask me to post that information, I will. If I was seeking help in recovering the models, I would also post it. But as I've stated a few times, I'm not as concerned with $25 worth of models as I am with simply feeling that it's my responsibility to warn others that this trader might not be up to expected standards here on Bartertown. Providing his user name and real name are sufficient for that purpose, I think. If Mods disagree, I have no problem posting the address as well.

3. If you have his email address, try and see if bam4k has a Facebook account (Or askthe admins if they can give you the link to his FB profile). You may be able to comunicate from there.

I do not have the email address... and again, tracking him down and getting the models isn't my primary concern here. I just don't want to see someone else in this position down the road, and posting a BTR is the best way to avoid that.

For a relatively small value of models ($25 or so), the time/effort of posting a BTR isn't really worth it from a personal standpoint. The main reason I did is because I'd feel horrible if something similar to another Bartertown member in the future--perhaps in part because I hadn't said anything. It doesn't do a whole lot of good to chime in after the fact and say, "Oh yeah, he did that to me, too."

I've had a couple of people back out of deals before, and because I didn't lose anything but time, I didn't bother posting anything. But when I later saw that others had similar issues (or worse, Bad Trader Reports) on those same users, I felt guilty because maybe those don't happen if I'd posted something in the Backout thread.

So that's my motivation here... simply alerting the community of potential snags in future dealings. It's not really about the models, because if the communication had been good and bam4k had said at some point "I screwed up and only have 26 guys to trade instead of 30," I probably would have been fine with that. My issue is more about the lack of communication and sending me something other than what was agreed upon AFTER asking him to verify before they were sent.

I'm sorry that you didn't get what was promised, but at least you know why some people on here (Like me) uses the feedback system when trading. I do hope you get the Dwarf command, or at least money to compensate for the lost items. I'll leave the rest to the mods to help you out if they can.

Thanks! Not really looking for any help here, though... just trying to be helpful myself.

And yes, usually I DO use the feedback ratings when determining who ships first--especially when users are relatively new or have very low ratings. I've been known to make exceptions, though, and I guess this one came back to bite me.

Garlicson2 wrote:Couple of things I would like to point out.

1. As what Jul said in the BTR topic on Tomb King1:

jul wrote: You cannot say:" do this and you get a good reference" or "if you don't do that, i'll give a bad one"
J

Well, you CAN... but context is everything.
I don't see an issue with what he did.

@JT
- Yes. Please, post his address.
When filing a BTR, we request that you post ALL of the information he gave you, barring phone numbers.

Thanks.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote: @JT
- Yes. Please, post his address.
When filing a BTR, we request that you post ALL of the information he gave you, barring phone numbers.

Sean Masten
2115 Schaffer Rd
Waverly, OH 45690

It's now been 7 days with no contact/response from Sean. I'm considering the matter closed and leaving feedback.

I am not sure if I should begin a new report or if I can just add one here. I will start by dropping a line here.

[Admin edit - If you read the rules, you would know that you cannot piggyback. - MM]

PhillyT you must start your own thread, you can not add onto another's BTR