Bartertown.com

1) Introduction

I posted a list of Skorne Warmachine models for trade and was approached by pookie01 for a trade of his Cryx models. We came to an agreement on which models and I asked him to send first since we had comparable feedback numbers and I was the seller. He declined and threatened me with a back-out report if I didn't send first. I sent the models 11/13/10 and neither received anything, nor heard from him.

2) Proof

Here is a record of our PM exchanges:
*************************************************
Sent: Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:48 pm
by pookie01
interested in your
Razorworm

Gladiator
Bronzeback
Rhinodon

Arcuarii x6

Ferox x2

Master Tormenter (NIB)

Warclaws




have

Nightmare
Seether
Cankerworm

Bloodwitches x10
Bloodhag
Raider Captain

Bloodgorgers x10
Slaughterborn

Brute Thrall only have 1 sorry
Bloatthrall

*********************************************************
Sent: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:38 pm
by lynchpin667
Please tell me the condition of the cryx models you own. Are they painted? Are they built? Were pins used? Do the bases have flock on them?
*********************************************************
Sent: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:16 pm
by pookie01
all stuff i own is nib box...trying to cut down on the number of armies ..
*********************************************************
Sent: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:29 pm
by lynchpin667
That sounds perfect!
The sum of what you mentioned wanting from me is $254. The sum of what I want from you is $224. Could you throw in $15 to even the trade? I would call it good at that point.
*********************************************************
Sent: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:54 pm
by pookie01
dont really have cash if your looking for other models from n e faction other than skorne or legion let me know and i could even the trade out with extra models.. i do have upgrade kit for the malice...from gencon if youd like that if not let me know
*********************************************************
Sent: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:40 pm
by lynchpin667
Actually I would be interested in the Malice.
*********************************************************
Sent: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:31 am
by pookie01
ok then its urs plz send to


Jay Vera
703 Royston
San Antonio,TX 78225

trade is as follows
your
Razorworm
Gladiator
Bronzeback
Rhinodon
Arcuarii x6
Ferox x2
Master Tormenter (NIB)
Warclaws

for my
malice kit
Nightmare
Seether
Cankerworm
Bloodwitches x10
Bloodhag
Raider Captain
Bloodgorgers x10
Slaughterborn
Brute Thrall only have 1 sorry
Bloatthrall
*********************************************************
Sent: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:45 am
by lynchpin667
Are you suggesting we both send at the same time? If so, then I agree.

Here's my address:

Clint Russell
---------
---------, NC ------

My package will arrive from Minnesota though. Don't be alarmed, I'm just in the process of moving.
*********************************************************
Sent: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:03 am
by lynchpin667
Please send me a tracking number as soon as it's off.
Thanks!
*********************************************************
Sent: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:59 pm
by pookie01
see u got my message let me know if you want to continue the trade if not i will assume you are backing out cuz you dont want to send 1st....
*********************************************************
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:43 am
by pookie01
well per bartertown rules i am required to inform you of my intent to file a backout trader report before i file and allow you to respond
*********************************************************
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:34 am
by lynchpin667
I am very sick, but I am going to make a special trip to the post office this morning to send out the package.
*********************************************************
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:37 am
by lynchpin667
To be honest, up to this point, I have found it very difficult to deal with you. You have been rude, threatening, and disrespectful. It is simply a guideline that the person with the highest feedback send first, not the rule. I am the seller, and I dictate the terms of the sale, not you.

I am hoping our relationship can improve though and I will extend the first olive branch. I just drove through this ( http://www.weather.com/outlook/weather- ... 2010-11-12 ) with the flu to get you this delivery confirmation number: 0310 1230 0000 3412 4413. I hope you show me at least the same respect by shipping those models today and providing me with a confirmation number.

Thank you.
*********************************************************
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:33 am
by pookie01
rude and disrespectful... how do you figure...if u really want to get ur panties in a bunch about it ..wow..after we agree to what is being traded and not sold and exchange addresses then you spring it on me for shipping at the same time.. so you want to set the terms after the deal is in place hey if thats how u work good for you not the way i do business guidelines rules call them what you will but they r there for a reason and have worked for me up to this point at this point i really dont care what you do and have done...threatening because i want a response i figured you were trying to back out so i went and looked and again following rules and guidelines was going by what bartertown had set in place so say what you want i dont think your issues are with me but more so what bartertown has set in place.
*********************************************************
Sent: Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:56 am
by lynchpin667
Hello,

I have not heard from you and I need to receive some some kind of shipping information by the end of the day today.
*********************************************************
Sent: Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:07 pm
by pookie01
shipping info in regards to what u just shipped ur end of the deal what like sat... i havent recvd n e thing yet... i never agreed to send at the same time you wanted that .. i said i followed bartertown rules/guidelines...lower rank ships first ...im sure you have all the same emails i do.. go back thru the emails n look it up.
*********************************************************
Sent: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:49 pm
by lynchpin667
Have these models been sent yet?
*********************************************************
Sent: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:26 am
by lynchpin667
I need to receive a response from you regarding those models with either a delivery confirmation number, a paypal payment for the models, or a detailed response indicating what you plan to do about it within 48 hours (noon on Thursday, Dec 1), or I will be forced to pursue legal action against you.



3) Supporting information

I have a delivery confirmation slip: #0310 1230 0000 3412 4413
and a receipt describing the weight of the pack proving I didn't just send him an empty envelope. I will have scans available for anyone who wants to see them 12/6.

I looked at his feedback to see if anything had developed after my trade occurred and I saw someone else had left more negative feedback. I contacted him and discussed the situation over several PMs. He went through very much the same experience as I did. His tale essentially confirmed my fear that Jay Vera was a scammer.


4) Follow through
I posted a BTR and have left negative feedback so anyone would know not to trust him. I am about to attempt filing a police report with the San Antonio Police right now. I will post again once I have completed that.

There is NO rule saying lower rated traders HAVE to ship first.
It's a practice some traders use but is not mandatory.

If you don't agree with sending first to someone then it doesn't make it a backout, you're still in the negotiating process.

I understand that, but I didn't call him up Thanksgiving Thursday morning and make a surprise trade, he knew it was coming and what was going on the whole time.

Er, you should disregard that, I posted it in the wrong place and I cannot edit it.

lynchpin667 wrote:I understand that, but I didn't call him up Thanksgiving Thursday morning and make a surprise trade, he knew it was coming and what was going on the whole time.

I was just stating that contrary to his pm's

Sent: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:59 pm
by pookie01
see u got my message let me know if you want to continue the trade if not i will assume you are backing out cuz you dont want to send 1st....
*********************************************************
Sent: Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:43 am
by pookie01
well per bartertown rules i am required to inform you of my intent to file a backout trader report before i file and allow you to respond

That it would not have been a back out if you didn't go through with the trade.

Presuming you're being honest here (and i AM presuming that, until proven otherwise), I think it's a sh!tty thing he's done, and it really pisses me off.

In that respect, I have the following information for you.

IP he joined from confirms his city & state: 70.115.200.179
Email he joined the site with: jayvera01@yahoo.com

Here's where it gets good.

It looks like he's not the only one in the house.

At this location:
703 Royston Ave
San Antonio, TX 78225-2109

I find a number of individuals living there who share the same last name.
Brandon Vera, Jay Vera, Louisa Vera, Jose J Vera, Robert W Lehman, Jesse C Vera

Looking up Brandon, I find the following information about him:
Age: 55-59

My guess is that Brandon is Dad.
He's the only one I found age information on, besides Jay (looks like he might be as old as 29!).
Louisa is probably mom.
I don't know who Robert Lehman is. He doesn't seem to fit in (by name) with the rest of the residents of that address.
The address seems to fit for him, though, because the phone number listed for him is the same as for everyone else.

What's that?
What did I say?

Ah. Yes.
I said "phone number."

(I think the internet term you're looking for right now is "lulz.")

(210) 626-8026

I suggest you call that number (AT A RESPECTABLE HOUR!!!!!!!) and ask for Brandon.
I've made these calls before. A GREAT way to start would be like this:

"Hi, Mr. Vera. My name is (insert name here). I'm sorry to bother you. I'm calling about Jay Vera, though.
I spend time on an internet site called "Bartertown," where we exchange models and books for various game systems. Recently, I arranged an exchange with Jay. He misrepresented a couple site rules and threatened me if I did not send my portion of our trade first. I did so, but he only continued to be aggressive and, after my shipment arrived to him, he stopped communications with me. He has never sent what we agreed on.
I'm calling you in hopes that you can help me by getting in touch with Jay and having him send out what he owes me. Could you help me?"

Give him time to digest it, ask questions, etc.
Be prepared to offer information and answer questions.

At some point, VERY VERY DIPLOMATICALLY, bring up the subject of legal proceedings and police involvement. Something along the lines of "I've been advised that I should contact law enforcement, file charges and begin legal proceedings, but I'd really prefer to work it out without causing anyone to have an arrest record, if possible. It doesn't seem to me to be worth it to cause someone to have legal problems over a few models, if something can be worked out otherwise."
---It's not a lie, either... because I *DO* suggest that you contact the USPS, FBI, the court ystem and his local PD---

If, as I suspect, Brandon is his dad, uncle, older brother, etc., he'll probably take an EXTREME INTEREST in getting this resolved.

I have had quite a number of Bad Trader Reports that I've looked up, called the houses in this manner, and gotten resolved. You'd be surprised what could happen.

Call Brandon.
Update us.

Eric

....

You all need raises. From zero to infinity.

For future reference, I would consider forwarding on the Email string to MM or Pork if you start feeling uncomfortable with a trade.
They have been very helpful giving advice, or just their impression as an observer of what is potentally going wrong.
Especially if you get threatened and are unsure how to proceed.

lynchpin667 wrote:....

You all need raises. From zero to infinity.

Actually, he did.
He came to me first, and I told him to post the public BTR.

Here's the thought process... I could've done this same thing for him via PM or email. The problem, though, is that, if pookie01 *IS* scamming, nobody else gets to (a) see this report or (b) benefit from my research.
Maybe there are people with this same issue on pookie? Seeing that lynchpin's having an issue may galvanize them to post their own report, realizing that it's not just them and may be epidemic.

If anyone ever comes to me for my opinion on an issue, I'll give it. Once they think it's become a BTR type situation, I stop handling it privately. That's why this forum is here. Take it public and let everyone benefit.

@Lynchpin... Did you call? Any luck?
I was tempted to call him myself, but (a) it was WAY early in the a.m. at that time and (b) I didn't want to steal your thunder.


Eric

I did want to mention that I, too, have been scammed by Jay Vera. I'll be posting a Bad Trader Report as soon as I get the opportunity. The time prior to the holidays is a madhouse at work.

From what I've read, he appears to be doing the same thing each time. In my case, I sent the package and he claimed the item never arrived. Speaking with both post office members and using my tracking number, the package has arrived.

Jay claims that he has no ability to go to the post office to see what's going on because he's working and that when his mail is delivered (between 5 and 6 he said) he is still gone. That would roughly be a good 10+ hour work day mon-sat if the US postal service keeps similar hours across the country.

I spoke with MagicalMemories who gave me a letter he uses and I copied, edited the spaces necessary and sent it to him. He flat out refused to send the items at that point and I have filed complaints to the authorities. At this point, nothing has come of it.

So that's 2 people who have been shorted. And it's $91 to file in small claims in San Antonio. Seeing as I paid about $65 total to send my items and the MSRP of my stuff was only $90, I'm not really sure what I'll be doing. I'll keep my eye on this to see what happens.

You know what's funny? He was going to get rid of some Legion to me because he didn't have the time for them but in their conversations, he states that Skorne and Legion are his 2 primary factions he plays...

rft, I posted his home number above.
I would suggest you use it, as well.
If multiple people start calling Jay's home, ears are going to start perking up.

Eric

I called, asked for Brandon, and was told that was the wrong number.

The SA police officer who took my report (you were right btw MM, I told a white to them and said my local PD said to call them and the officer said he was about to tell me the same) said my next step is to send him certified mail making a demand for my property back so it's clear he knows I want it. After that I can move forward with small claims court.

lynchpin667 wrote:I called, asked for Brandon, and was told that was the wrong number.

Did you remember to block your number first?
If he's watching the site, he was expecting your call.

Keep trying.

The way phone numbers work is that, even if the people get rid of it, it isn't reused for YEARS, so as to get all the "wrong number" callers out of the system, so to speak. So, it's not like they had it, dropped it, then someone else picked it up a week later. KWIM? Also, if they dropped the number, it would not likely be on whitepages.com.

lynchpin667 wrote:The SA police officer who took my report (you were right btw MM, I told a white to them and said my local PD said to call them and the officer said he was about to tell me the same) said my next step is to send him certified mail making a demand for my property back so it's clear he knows I want it. After that I can move forward with small claims court.

Did he allow you to complete a report?

Eric

I'll be making a phone call today. Let me know if you were able to file a report because I just might do the same and I will send a letter to the house demanding the items in question.