Bartertown.com

Well, about a year ago I asked on Bartertown to have my Warhammer Ogre army painted in trade for a unused High Elf army, the person who responded was Redstarone and he offered to paint my army in a reasonable amount of time. However, delays (personal life problems on Matt's part) occured and I felt that I was more than forgiving of the repeated excuses. Now, after the last email, I am no longer able to get a response from Redstarone and am unsure of my options. To be perfectly honest, I haven't played the hobby much lately, but I still want that army in case I do restart playing or find that I need a quick source of income for whatever reason and than can sell it at a later time. The first post notes what was traded, in effect, I am down two armies at this point.

I noticed that another user (B_Steele) filed a BTR regarding Redstarone as well encountering the same problems : viewtopic.php?f=34&t=91116

The correspondence is as follows :
______________________________________________

Initial Bartertown correspondence :

Sent: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:05 am
From: redstarone
To: Halelel

Subject: Need Army Painted. H: Army to Trade

Halelel wrote:Looking to get the following Ogres painted as I'm sick of seeing them sitting in my den in a box. I'm looking for a basic paint job with simple basing as well (like grass, sand, or snow)

(1) Ogre Tyrant
(1) Ogre Butcher
(4) Ogre Leadbelchers
(12) Ogre Bulls
(7) Ogre Ironguts
(1) Ogre Bruiser (converted plastic)
(2) Gorgers
(8) Gnoblar Trappers


Most are already assembled (except gorgers and trappers) and primed black


I have the following High Elf army and odds and ends to throw in as well.

High Elf : (all unpainted or just primed)
1 new metal Teclis
1 new metal Caradryan
19 spearmen (7 metal "front rank" spearmen, 6 metal spearmen (NIB), 6 plastic spearmen)
20 swordmasters (inc. command figures)
2 assembled plastic Repeater Bolt Throwers w/ crew
2 NIB metal Repeater Bolt Throwers w/ crew
2 metal High Elf Mages
2 metal High Elf Heroes (1 with bow, 1 with sword)
1 NIB Phoenix Guard command (3 models)
7 Ellyrian Reavers (6 horses)
3 Ellyrian Reaver Commands (NIB)
(I believe I have somewhere between 3-6 more Reavers or Reaver Command blisters that I'll throw in if I find them)
**Alarielle + 6 maiden guards (rare models)**

Lizardmen :
6 metal skinks w/ javelins (5th edition)
1 metal skink priest (5th edition)
13 metal temple guard (5th edition)

Chaos :
NIB Greater Daemon of Tzeentch

Random Stuff :
1 Reaper-made Great Eagle (this thing is huge)



Hey,

I would love to paint some ogres!
www.conversioncorner.com
That said, I normally paint table top quality but would be more then willing to paint your ogres at a higher standard.
If you like my style , lmk details such as how fast you need them completed and such.

Thanks,
Matt
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Sent: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:36 am
From: redstarone
To: Halelel

Hey,

Im glad you liked the guard. I wasnt so sure about the scheme the client wanted but it turned out really nice.

Speaking of schemes, hmm, the artists choice aye? Ill do some research today during the slow times at work and get back to you with a few different schemes and you can pick your favorite. If thats ok with you that is .

For the basing, I personally like to figure out the scheme and then go with a basing style that compliments it as sometimes the base can be more of an eye catcher then the models if its not chosen right. But right now I would be leaning more towards a dirt with dead/parched grass and maybe some small rocks. If thats not your thing LMk and im sure I can figure out another style.

Sounds excellent on the turn around. Looking at the list of ogres again and the fact they are already assembled and undercoated, it shouldnt take more to long. 2-4 weeks seems about right as I can finish 1-3 units a week depending on what exactly it is and how big it is.

For the "payment" in trade, you can hold onto them until you have approved completion pictures of the completed ogre army.

So with that ill get back to you tomorrow with some schemes you can choose from.

Thanks,
Matt

________________________________________________________________

Sent: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:21 am
From: redstarone
To: Halelel

Hey,

Yea they say im like the flash when it comes to replies as generally im online or at the very least, sitting and working on models in front of a computer screen. So I tend to notice new emails and PMs rather quickly. Even when im super busy I wont go longer then a day without checking it, and those are rare days indeed.

If you want to save on shipping by including the "payment" with the ogres thats fine with me. I just like to give the option that the client can wait to "pay" as I know there are alot of shaddy painting studios all over net. But as you already noticed, im indeed a very decicated member and advertiser here and dont plan to go anywhere anytime soon as well making sure all my clients are happy campers .

Since we are confirming this commission could you go ahead and email me at redstarone22@gmail.com with the subject saying "Ogre Army Painting" and the body containing your shipping address as well as your BT user name. I keep all confirmed commissions there as its way more organized there here. I get way to many PMs each day and tend to miss things but dont miss a thing if its email.

That all said, if you prefer we communicate here for the commission thats ok too as long as I still get that email from you containing the major info.

Ill get the multiple choice pictures gathered up tomorrow. I started to look for them about 15 minutes ago but im wayyyy to tired and have to be up in 2 hours . Insomnia sucks..

Thanks,
Matt

_________________________________________________________________

Sent: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:06 pm
From: redstarone
To: Halelel

Hey Thomas,

I sent you an email. I would have PMed you here as you seem to prefer it but I can only attach one pic at a time. So with 4.. email it was.

Thanks,
Matt

_________________________________________________________________

Start of emails

_________________________________________________________________

Hey Thomas,

I Finally got 4 schemes gathered up for you to pick from.


Now if you dont like thpse I can do variations of any of them, say replace red with blue, or green. Personally I like reds as they stand out nicely on heavily "fleshed" minis. Plus, I do have some MIG weathering pigments that would look amazing on the red and tie them into the bases with dead/parched grass. Kinda like a "dusty trails themed base"

If you dont like any of them at all, I can find some other schemes. And please, dont hesitate to be blunt as thats the best way to get the army perfect.

Thanks,
Matt

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Tommy Thorpe <TommyAngel369@msn.com> wrote:
Hello again, thanks for painting up these fellows!
Bartertown Name :
Halelel
Shipping Address :
Thomas P. Thorpe
<address omitted>
Once we get the color schemes and what not all figured out, I'll ship out all the figures and notify you with a tracking order via UPS.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Hey Thomas,

That was actually my favorite as well. Great minds do think alike!

So is that then the scheme you would like? No changes to it?

Thanks,
Matt

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Tommy Thorpe <TommyAngel369@msn.com> wrote:
Hey there Matt,
After looking over the samples you gave me, the first picture with the Ogre Hunter is the color scheme that really seemed to "pop" (to me at least, haha).
I especially liked the skin coloration, as the other gray scale types just seemed bland to me, the bottom ogres skin color looked too "humanish" as well (if that's a word)
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

No, thank you! Youve been nothing but a complete pleasure to work for. Not to mention the high elf stuff and extras will really help some future commissions planned for '09.

My shipping info is

Matt Bonder
7720 McCallum Blvd
Apt 1076
Dallas Texas 75252

Im not in a hurry to get them or anything but I will start once they get here as ive gotten more done this week then I thought I would. All I do ask is that you send with some sort of tracking otherwise mail carriers tend to leave a package at my door. I live in apts so with tracking they put it in a special box or leave it in the office. Both places are completly safe compared to my door which well, isnt so safe.

Thanks,
Matt

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:35 PM, Tommy Thorpe <TommyAngel369@msn.com> wrote:
Hey Matt,
Haha. They also say crazy people think alike, lol.
Anyways, I really do like that color scheme and don't believe it needs any changes (unless you want to change something, but it looks great as is to me)
Thanks Matt!
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hey Thomas,

Ah well have fun in vegas! I wish I was there!

Sounds good on the shipped schedule. I should be back by then

Also, as long as you ship with some sort of tracking, they wont leave it outside the door. Thery will put it in a special mail box or leave it at the apt office. Either way, as long as it has tracking its 100% safe.

Have fun in vegas!

Thanks,
Matt
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Tommy Thorpe <TommyAngel369@msn.com> wrote:
I'm actually in Vegas for a friend's wedding this weekend, so won't be back until Monday night. If I ship the package via UPS on Tuesday or Wednesday, it should be there in 5-7 days. Would that work for you? I'll email you the tracking codes as well once I send them, I'll also try to make sure they don't leave the box outside your apartment either.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Sent: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:13 pm
From: redstarone
To: Halelel

Hey,

Got the package. Ill keep you updated on the painting.

Thanks,
Matt

________________________________________________________________________________

<After a period of time after shipping the Ogres, I waited a bit to message Redstarone again via Bartertown messaging>

Sent: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:44 pm
From: redstarone
To: Halelel

Hey,

Shall we shoot for a may 1st date in your hands then? I have my wedding at the end of march and wont be back until the end of april. I can get some work on them knocked out now and then finish them up in the few days im back before the 1st of may.

LMK if that works for you.

Thanks,
Matt

_______________________________________________________________________________

Sent: Mon May 11, 2009 3:35 pm
From: redstarone
To: Halelel

Hey there,

Right now they are all done skin wise but thats about it.

Ive been suuuuuper busy, so busy in fact ive pissed off a long time client who felt the need to post a BTR on me.

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=86985&start=0

Please note he paid nothing, and the only prob was i was a month late getting them to him. (that was the month i was getting married, on honeymoon and had surgery on my pinky due to tendon damage. No biggy it just sticks out nmow like im drinking tea!

You had said you need them by june 1st correct?

Thanks,
Matt

_________________________________________________________________________________

<June came and went and still didn't hear anything about the army or a response, so messaged Redstarone once again>
_________________________________________________________________________________

Sent: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:14 pm
From: redstarone
To: Halelel

Hello,

I was pretty sure my posts said to email me. I have yet to recieve an email from you.

As for setting dates, we had set a single date of june. Then you changed what army you were going to play. Since then there hasnt been anther date that im aware of.

That said, email me please, dont reply here. If you want to file a BTR, go ahead, thats your right but you havent been ripped off...

________________________________________________________________________________

Here the email correspondence resumes once again :

Hello Tommy,

This email from you was in my spam box and until your BT pm i hadnt seen it as it must have been overlooked. Sorry.

So ok i do see a 2nd due date of the end of july. Thats 2 1/2 weeks from now if im not mistaken.

So like i said, if you feel the need to file a btr, go ahead but like i also said before, you havent been ripped off and seem to be jumping the gun.

Thanks,
Matt


On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Tommy Thorpe <TommyAngel369@msn.com> wrote:
Hey there Matt, just checking on the status of the Ogres. The tournament in June was cancelled, so decided not to harass you into a hasty job. However, I would like them before the end of July as I am planning to move, but don't know where I will be living yet (looking for a rental property).
Just let me know and thanks as always.
- Tommy

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Hey Tommy,

My wife has been in the hospital and just got home last night. If she continues to do well today and the next few days ill have just enough time to finish the ogres. They have al had base colors and are only in need of washs then final highlights.

All in all they are close to being done. If you can hang in there and not leave me a BTR that would be great, but if you feel the need to, PLEASE tell me in advance. Dont wait to get the models then blast me with no warning. My buisness is how i pay medical bills, as niether my wife or I have medical insurance.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Tommy Thorpe <TommyAngel369@msn.com> wrote:
Hey there Matt, checking in to see if the Ogres are done or are near completion? If you have the ability to take pictures, it would be most appreciated. I won't file a BTR for the time being as it was my mistake not emailing you at this address.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hey Tommy,

Updating you as its really close to the due date.

Almost everything is done. Just need to finish details on the bulls and the tyrant and butcher.

I dont think ill be done tomorrow but it will be soon. Ive been taking care of my wife still as she sitll isnt back to full strength.

Thanks for understanding,
Matt
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hey Tommy,

Still a few touch ups but overall they are finally done. Im going to get some pics taken this friday at game night for approval. If you do approve, which im sure you will, they will be shipped saturday or monday at the latest.

Thanks for emailing me and hanging in there. If I would have known my wife was going to get so sick I wouldnt have taken on the trade. But since I did, I wanted to finish it and complete our deal rather then simply sending everything back..

Thanks,
Matt

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Tommy Thorpe <TommyAngel369@msn.com> wrote:
Hey Matt, just checking in again on those Ogres. Please let me know if you are finished or if there is a delay. Thanks.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hey Tommy,

Yup they are thankfully done .

I havent had a chance to get to game night due to caring for my wife. She will be moving to her parents home state to seee a speciailist there within the week. After that ill be able to get back to normal work and game night ect.

Ill keep you updated and again, thanks for hanging in there. Im pretty sure you will love the work They came out really nice and look great all laid out.

Thanks,
Matt

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 3:37 AM, Tommy Thorpe <TommyAngel369@msn.com> wrote:
Hey Matt, just checking to see if they are done now and if you had those pictures by chance. Let me know and thanks
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hey Tommy,

Ah ye I didnt have your email anymore and I havent been able to get onto BT since they banned me for being staff at RM.

Shipping will be in a flat rate box so no more then 6 dollars for priority and tracking. If you want insurance its a dollar or 2 more, ill check to be sure.

Question, did you Pm B steele on BT in regards to me? I ask because frankly I woke up today to drama of people saying im a thief with frankly pisses me off. My son passing, my wife JUST not starting to go into remission has all ment modeling is 2nd in my life. Then to have people say im a thief today really upsets me.

If you didnt PM him i apologize. If you did, why didnt you email me?

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Tommy Thorpe <TommyAngel369@msn.com> wrote:
Hey Matt, just wondering if the Ogres are done now as I haven't received an update in a while. Please let me know and also let me know how much shipping is going to be, thanks.
-Tommy
________________________________________________________________________________________________________


After this last correspondence, I have not received a word from Matt (redstarone) for all of December and January. I feel that I have been more than generous in understanding his situation and repeated delays. However, at this point, I am unsure of my options and of what I can do.

Redstarone is no longer a member of Bartertown. He was banned for grossly abusing his status as an advertiser as well as violating other site rules.

Of course, now that I post this I'm sure a new string of "Lin's a bloody tyrant" threads will erupt on Rogue Market, which is where you will find Redstarone these days. He is rather good friends with one Justin Wu (you can find info on him in the Hall of Shame).

If it has been that long and you've not heard from him, the only thing I can recommend at this point is filing mail fraud and theft charges.

Edit for clarity: The BTR is still valid. There just isn't a lot that can be done from our end, unfortunately.

He doesn't frequent the site that much. He is active on DakkaDakka. I'll shoot him a message over there and make him aware of the situation.

RedStarOne is an Administrative member on Rogue Market. From what he tells me, he's the #2 guy.

I AM NOT ADVOCATING ANY HARRASSMENT.
[You see that, Matt? I'm telling them NOT to harrass you!]

If, however, you would like to get ahold of him, you would probably have better luck over there. As I understand it (people send me stuff LOL), he's quite active in the Chat.

Eric

P.S. Now that a BTR has been posted about him, I'm counting down until the time comes that I start getting angry, ranting emails from him.

P.P.S. THIS IS NOT OPEN SEASON TO BASH RSO. IF YOUR COMMENTS DO NOT RELATE DIRECTLY TO THIS THREAD, KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF.
(or PM them to me, if they're REALLY funny. Fair warning, though; if they aren't funny, I'm gonna harrass you about it!)

I talked to Redstarone. He informed me that he lost the OP's contact info when he was banned. OP has been sent Redstarone's e-mail address, and hopefully this can be resolved.

Lost the OPs contact info when he was banned? I guess he kept his email address book in the PM folder here then since he sent the OP emails.

Too bad he can't explain this;

Sent: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:06 pm
From: redstarone
To: Halelel

Hey Thomas,

I sent you an email. I would have PMed you here as you seem to prefer it but I can only attach one pic at a time. So with 4.. email it was.

Thanks,
Matt

Let's see, If it was a few e-mails, in a sea of many other e-mails, and he didn't have the OP's real name attached to it, along with the OP's B-Town user name; it would make it kind of hard to find it. Not to mention, Redstarone says he found one of the OP's e-mails in his Junk Mail box. So if he's like me and has the junk mail set to empty upon logout, he would lose the messages the OP sent.

Don't assume an e-mail means he has all the OP's contact info in his e-mail box.

TIP: When using e-mail to make deals:
1. Make sure the subject line is noticeable, and won't be rejected upon first look as spam.
2. Include your B-Town user name in the e-mail.
3. Create a signature in your e-mail with your full name and two ways to contact you.

2 quick tips using emails:
Don't store them only on your hard drive. Keep them on you isp's server. That way if/when your computers crashes, you won't lose the information.

second check your spam folder everytime you log on, especially if you have to auto-dump like Ironhide. I've had emails, from contacts, appear in a spam folder.

3rd, keep all the email in 1 folder during the deal. Easier to delete later, and easier to find and back up.

[i really don't belive in any form of auto-dump, trash, spam or anything. It's too easy for things to get lost by mistake.]

I use the auto-dumping on my Hotmail account only. I've had it for over 12 years, and it gets a lot of spam.

I guess you are right. I bet redstarone had a ton of commission work at the time and asked every one of them to put "Ogre Army Painting" in the subject line. Sorry I just don't buy the excuse. If nothing else he could have easily PMd one of the site admins explaining he had contact info for an incomplete trade in his PM box and needed temporary access so he could pull them. There are just too many easy ways he could have gotten it. I'm even willing to bet there was a return address on the box that got sent.

He seems to be able to post updates to his Warseer Logs thread.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... Redstarone

Wasnt sure if any of you knew about this or not.

1) If your commentary is not DIRECTLY RELATED TO THIS ISSUE, stop posting in this thread. Stay on topic.

2) He has asked us for PM access on numerous occasions. He always has been and always WILL BE denied. He is too public a figure to HAVE TO rely on Bartertown PM's for contact with anyone. He has a web site available, as well as being staff on a different site and having membership on Heaven KNOWS how may other sites.

@Jefe -
He is also a regular on DakkaDakka, as well as spending a lot of time (I'm told) in the Rogue Market chat room.


Eric

@ ollieb: You don't have to buy the excuse, that's your option. Still doesn't mean it couldn't have happened.

@OP: redstarone says he has sent you an e-mail, have you gotten it?

MagickalMemories wrote:1) If your commentary is not DIRECTLY RELATED TO THIS ISSUE, stop posting in this thread. Stay on topic.

2) He has asked us for PM access on numerous occasions. He always has been and always WILL BE denied. He is too public a figure to HAVE TO rely on Bartertown PM's for contact with anyone. He has a web site available, as well as being staff on a different site and having membership on Heaven KNOWS how may other sites.

@Jefe -
He is also a regular on DakkaDakka, as well as spending a lot of time (I'm told) in the Rogue Market chat room.


Eric

@ MM.. fair enough.
But I am a regular poster at Warseer and I noticed his log a ways back. Thought it could be pertinent thats all. Just trying to do my part to keep the wheels of the B-Town community functional.

El Jefe wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:1) If your commentary is not DIRECTLY RELATED TO THIS ISSUE, stop posting in this thread. Stay on topic.

2) He has asked us for PM access on numerous occasions. He always has been and always WILL BE denied. He is too public a figure to HAVE TO rely on Bartertown PM's for contact with anyone. He has a web site available, as well as being staff on a different site and having membership on Heaven KNOWS how may other sites.

@Jefe -
He is also a regular on DakkaDakka, as well as spending a lot of time (I'm told) in the Rogue Market chat room.


Eric

@ MM.. fair enough.
But I am a regular poster at Warseer and I noticed his log a ways back. Thought it could be pertinent thats all. Just trying to do my part to keep the wheels of the B-Town community functional.

No worries, Jefe. I was not referring to you.
You gave good information related directly to the subject of the BTR. That was DEFINITELY an on topic post!

Eric