Warnings for zero reference accounts?

[Astynax]

This has occurred to me a few times recently now which leads be to believe in sketchy or indicators of fraud:

Where the two of you talk and negotiate items for the deal, settle the price or amount of models etc. However before I totally close the deal, I ask for pictures as proof that they have the models and request that either they ship first or provide assurance that they have shipped (with a tracking number and scan of the shipping document) before I will send. However, after my request for assurance and a picture, I no longer hear from the person who has (0) referrals which leads me to think they're in it for the scam and won't pursue this one any longer.

I don't think it is an unreasonable request from me, and any decent person would at least reply. Should we have a list of these people for all to see - either mark them as potential frauds or to be put on a probationary period so they have to earn a certain number of referrals before they're removed on this list a complaint is issued against them?

[gpfredette]

What you are asking for is already in place in the form of the back out and bad trader forums.

I suggest that you check those forums to see if the folks you were dealing with have past discrepancies.

If you believe you have been the recipient of a back out you can contact a staff member with the PM 'proof' and they can tell you if it would be proper to file it.

I hope this helps.

Thank you,

[JohnHwangBT]

before I totally close the deal, I ask for pictures as proof ... and that either they ship first or provide assurance that they have shipped

Smart & safe!

While it is a suspicious backout (almost), right now, there's nothing you can do here, because you both didn't actually agree to a deal, so BTR and Backout aren't applicable.

"Mob justice" won't work either.

The only thing that could help would be new rules to require formal closure of negotiations. But even then, any such seller is just going to claim that he got a better deal from someone else / wants a better price / blah blah blah.

[HarlequinZero]

To avoid some hassle, in the very first PM you send a potential trade partner you should list all the restrictions you mention. i.e. They have to provide you with pictures, lower rating ships first, etc... That way you save yourself a lot of time. I mean, if the guy decides against your deal after one PM no big deal. If he calls it off after a dozen PMs because you mention your trade restrictions once the deal is almost finished you've lost time and other potential trade partners.

-HZ

[MagickalMemories]

Good advice in here, so far.

As has been said, you can't pile a BTR or backout. A BTR is only for when you've sent goods (or cash) and received nothing, or when they've somehow misled you and are unwilling to make good on it in some fashion. There are other reasons, of course, but the idea her is that *something* has to have been sent.
A backout is only for AFTER the agreement is complete. That means you ask them to ship first and they agree. If, then, they don't send it, you're looking at a backout.

Here are some suggestions:
Create a "do not trade" list. Keep these people on it until they've completed a # of trades that satisfies you (5 or 10 or maybe even never... Whatever works for you).
PM a Staff member. Admins and Mods can look into some of this guy's history for suspicious behaviors. More often than not, nothing comes of your inquiries but, on occasion, it has helped up catch people who are running multiple accounts and/or scamming.
Only trade with established traders (I actually do not recommend this, but it IS an option)
State in your trade ads (or, as HZ said, in your first PM) that LOWEST rating ships first (Be awesome and put it in your sig line. All the cool traders do it!).


As an aside, do NOT accept assurances that they've shipped as proof of shipment. Either wait until the item arrives, or ship simultaneously.
I could have a trade running with John and send him his box with a D.C., then turn around and give it to you, telling you it's yours. You'll look online and, sure enough, it's been accepted locally. The next thing you know, you're mailing my stuff off.

Five days later, you're wondering where your box is. You check it online, only to discover that it was already delivered in (enter John's city here). You're S.O.L., because you already sent your box to me.

It looks like you're being safe and smart. Keep it up and you'll have a scam-free time!

Eric

[JohnHwangBT]

@Eric:

If someone's going to DC scam, spending $2 to send an empty mailer to an arbitrary address in the same town (or even same street) as the target is a good "investment" for a $100+ scammer, but looks exactly correct online...

Hence, stick to the Btown standard and demand that lower rating ship first when dealing with a Zero reference trader. They have zero cred, so don't pay them first.
____

I didn't think I'd need to clarify the scammer woud be sending to random dude in Boise instead of legit trader in Boise, but apparently so...

[MagickalMemories]

@Eric:

If someone's going to DC scam, spending $2 to send an empty mailer to an arbitrary address in the same town (or even same street) is a good "investment" for a $100+ scammer, but looks exactly correct online...

You're correct. the only problem with that is that sending it to yourself, or an address in the same town will only take a day or two. If the guy waits 3 days to ship to the scammer, he might catch the scam before shipping. That's why I used the reference of doubling use on a valid DC#. It will take longer to get there if it's going half way across the country, giving the scammer a longer amount of time before his duplicity shows. KWIM?


Eric

[HarlequinZero]

@Eric: I think John is saying to find a random, valid address in the same town as the target of the scam. Not that the scammer would send something inside his own town.

[JohnHwangBT]

Exactly, HZ.

[MagickalMemories]

Gotcha.

Either way, the technique is the same...

Point being, if you're making the other guy ship first, don't ship your side until you receive the items from him.


Eric