Bartertown.com

Okay, folks.
I have established a contact in the Los Angeles area. He is willing to go to Palmdale and retrieve our belongings from Painter6479.
To be quite honest, he was willing to do it, basically, for free (didn't even want gas money, unless he had to make more than one trip) -gamers helping gamers and all, but I INSISTED that he take a small amount from each of us who wants his help.
The amount will vary from $5 to $10 per person. Pretty much, I will be deciding what the amount is once I know how many people want his help. The more people that are involved, the less the amount.

There are specific things you will have to do, including filing of reports and the signing of a contract (to protect you AND the other person).
You will be required to:
[*][/color]Complete a VALID BTR
[*][/color]File a police report
[*][/color]File a USPS Mail Fraud report
[*][/color]File an FBI IC3 Mail Fraud report
[*][/color]Sign a contract with him where you guarantee him payment of $x.xx (TBD) and he agrees to retrieve your minis and ship them to you (you will also have to pay shipping before receiving your minis). There will be specifics on how he has to act (since he'll be your representative), that he's only retrieving miniatures (not money), that he must go there with a police escort (which he and/or I will arrange), etc. It will also state that you understand that the contract doesn't guarantee that he will be able to retrieve your minis, as Kalieb may no longer have them. There will be specifics about him not guaranteeing condition of models when he receives them, etc.

If you are a lawyer and willing to help me draft a simple contract for free (Gamers helping gamers and all), PLEASE PM OR EMAIL ME. We desperately need to get a contract drawn up for usage on this.

He will take images and email them directly to you, once he's retrieved your items. If you have images you can provide (for comparison), you will be asked to.

I'm going to be a kind of go-between here. You will deal directly with me, I will put everything together and I will deal directly with him.
You will be provided his contact information (name, ph#, address), as well as mine.
Once he has the miniatures, he will deal directly with you. I will no longer be a "go-between" at that point.

If you want to get in on this, you have ONE WEEK to let me know.
Today is July 19, 2008. I must receive a PM from you BEFORE July 26, 2008 telling me that you are interested. That means you have from now until FRIDAY, July 25, 2008.

Title the PM as the example below.

Painter6479 - (Your Tradername)

Remove (Your Tradername) completely (also remove parentheses) and type in YOUR tradername on Bartertown in its' place.
THIS IS FOR BARTERTOWN MEMBERS ONLY. Please, do not direct members of other sites here. Signing up here for the sole purpose of getting in on this will cause you to be rejected. Do not PM me if you are not willing to complete ALL REASONABLE PROCEDURES LISTED ABOVE to get your stuff back. There will be NO exceptions. It will be done RIGHT, or not at all.

I'm putting my neck on the line here as the "face" of the whole thing.
Hopefully, my reputation here will prove that (a) this isn't a scam to get your money and (b) I will do MY best to ensure that everything is handled legitimately on the other end BEFORE anyone gives this guy money. It's not that I don't trust him... It's just that I have to watch out for everyone who I give my word to, and I will.

Feel free to PM me with any questions you have. If you PM me a question, and you were one of his victims, please title the PM as specified above.

Eric

This is the kind of stuff I like to see.

Good job, I hope your operation is successful.

Thanks for the good thoughts, 'Sid... and the links...

Now that Insidius has posted in this thread, you have links to both, the FBI and the USPS for reporting purposes.
Follow those links to complete your fraud reports.


Here's a link to a thread I started with his contact information in it:
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=68147

The second post even contains a link to the Palmdale Police Deptartment's web site.

Eric

I'm not a lawyer, but it sounds like each of you giving him a special power-of-attorney to recover said models would cover the contract part.

I'm going to have to disagree on the Special Power of Attorney (SPoA). While they would allow him to legally act in your name for a specific task, they are not contracts, and there would be no way to ensure that the gentleman followed through once he retrieved the minis in your name. In this case, Nice guy takes a copy of your SPoA to Painter$%&^. "I'm here to pick up minis in the name of Trader X". "FU ". Now what?. It doesn't provide a contingency plan if there are problems in retrieving the minis, or gaurantee that Nice Guy follows through and returns the minis.OTOH, a contract does everything a SPoA can do plus more by providing the specific tasks which the contractor is responsible to complete.

As an example, everytime we deployed, there was atleast 1 guy who got screwed. He gets a POA for his wife/ GF to have access to his accoutns so she can pay the bills. POA lets her write checks from his account. It doesn't gaurantee the moneyu goes to bills. Soldier comes home to empty account, wifey's new wardrobe, 6+ month's worth of unpaid bills.

Ofcourse I'm talking worste case scenario, but it's defintiely worth planning around that as these people have already been screwed once. No need to chance a second time, no matter how nice Nice Guy may be.

@ MM-
Have you been in contact with the local PD in reference to an escort? If not, I would confirm with a Detective that this is even possible. If the designated party were to show up at HQ, he would likely be advised that this is a Civil matter and an escort would not be provided unless he had a Court Order. Right wrong or indifferent, I'm just telling you how this matter would go locally for me. If you haven't done so, I would definitely let the local PD know exactly what you want to do and find out exactly how they can help, laws varrying from state to state and all.

Good luck in getting your stuff back.

flagg07 wrote:As an example, everytime we deployed, there was atleast 1 guy who got screwed. He gets a POA for his wife/ GF to have access to his accoutns so she can pay the bills. POA lets her write checks from his account. It doesn't gaurantee the moneyu goes to bills. Soldier comes home to empty account, wifey's new wardrobe, 6+ month's worth of unpaid bills.

Oh yeah, seen that many a time too. However, it always came out that the soldier was also to blame since he A) Didn't tell his wife/GF which bills needed paying. B) Didn't realize their wife had no idea on how to pay bills because they were from a different country. C) Trusted the wrong person, such as a GF/BF they had been dating for a month.

Maybe he will need a special POA AND a contract. The SPOA to act on your behalf when it comes to the authorities and legal matters that pop up relating to the property, and a contract to make him legally liable if he does not perform the specified task(s).

Ironhide wrote:Oh yeah, seen that many a time too. However, it always came out that the soldier was also to blame since he A) Didn't tell his wife/GF which bills needed paying. B) Didn't realize their wife had no idea on how to pay bills because they were from a different country. C) Trusted the wrong person, such as a GF/BF they had been dating for a month.

Correct on all counts in some cases. Regardless, as it pertains to this situation, the SPoA doesn't cut the mustard in and of itself.

Ironhide wrote:Maybe he will need a special POA AND a contract. The SPOA to act on your behalf when it comes to the authorities and legal matters that pop up relating to the property, and a contract to make him legally liable if he does not perform the specified task(s).

Good call. I was thinking of flushing the SPoA altogether, but you're right, it should be there for the authorities to reference.

flagg07 wrote:@ MM-
Have you been in contact with the local PD in reference to an escort? If not, I would confirm with a Detective that this is even possible. If the designated party were to show up at HQ, he would likely be advised that this is a Civil matter and an escort would not be provided unless he had a Court Order. Right wrong or indifferent, I'm just telling you how this matter would go locally for me. If you haven't done so, I would definitely let the local PD know exactly what you want to do and find out exactly how they can help, laws varrying from state to state and all.

Good luck in getting your stuff back.

Well, being a police officer myself I can tell you that civil matters fall under the authority of the Sheriff's Department. That being said however, we provide escorts all the time in order to "keep the peace" without actually getting personally invovled in said civil matters, provided we are in the clear that is and not on a prior call.

Think of it as acting as arbirators. We can get our points across nicely without having to get invovled just by mere presence.

Erik

You want us all to start a new BTR posting, or is this going to be a consolidated post? I've got all my darned Emails saved since first contact.

mrrshann618 wrote:You want us all to start a new BTR posting, or is this going to be a consolidated post? I've got all my darned Emails saved since first contact.

We need to follow the BTR rules. That means each person needs to have their own BTR thread on him.

Eric

npd_bigdaddy wrote:Well, being a police officer myself I can tell you that civil matters fall under the authority of the Sheriff's Department. That being said however, we provide escorts all the time in order to "keep the peace" without actually getting personally invovled in said civil matters, provided we are in the clear that is and not on a prior call.

Think of it as acting as arbirators. We can get our points across nicely without having to get invovled just by mere presence.

Erik

Thanks for the input, Big D.
That's the way I've seen it in the past. You need to, essentially, arrange it with the police/sheriff ahead of time.

They won't carry your stuff, or help you pack it, but they'll keep the guy from getting in your face/way while YOU do.
Eric

"That's the way I've seen it in the past. You need to, essentially, arrange it with the police/sheriff ahead of time."

Surely you'll take the time to confirm this before you get into a contract and not rely on what you've seen in the past alone right?
Keep in mind, I hope they escort the Nice Guy for all the reasons Big Daddy stated.

Big Daddy, I do not contest that that is how the matter would go if it occurred in your patrol area, but I doubt that you gaurantee that's how it works across the country. I'm only speaking for my little slice of the pie in NJ, but that's not how it would go here.

We do not get involved with Repo men looking to get a vehicle or other property back. Without a court order, we can not facilitate the reposession in anyway.

Just like we are not authorized to carry Tazers in NJ, but other states do (DON'T TAZE ME DUDE!!!)
Just like no PIT maneuvers.
Just like Pursuit Policies govern why, when and where we are authorized to pursue ("attempting to stop" is somehow different from "in pursuit")
I'm confident NC is different in most, if not all of the above.

Just confirm with the PD in Painter's local is all I'm strongly suggesting.
Appologies if I came off like I think my e-peen is bigger as that's not my intent at all.

Hopefully the PD will be able to facilitate getting the minis back and everyone involved can be satisfied in having there stuff back. Good luck men.

Just confirm with the PD in Painter's local is all I'm strongly suggesting.
Appologies if I came off like I think my e-peen is bigger as that's not my intent at all.

Maybe just a little.

Seriously, though... I see where you're going.
You don't want us to get screwed if the PD back out.

That's one of the reasons the police reports are required first.
When I call to file mine (I admit I've been to busy persuing other things with it to do that yet), I'll feel the PD out to see what that likelihood is.

Eric

So, here's the update...
I have received a whopping ONE person contact me about this.

ONE!

Are you frigging kidding me?
All the whining people have been doing and now, when others are putting their butts down on the line and doing most of the work FOR YOU, you're clamming up & not doing your (small) part?

I have a contract being written up by a lawyer right now. Once I have it in my possession, I will announce it and you will have ONE WEEK to contact me. After that, I will no longer accept any new complaintants and you'll be up sh** creek and on your own.

IF YOU HAVE BEEN RIPPED OFF BY PAINTER6479, COMPLETE THE ABOVE LISTED STEPS NECESSARY TO GET YOUR STUFF BACK.

Eric

Seriously, people. The amount of f*cking hate mail I got from the anti-painter crowd was prodigious...and only ONE person has the balls to get up from their keyboard and do something in the real world?

Shame on each person who complained but refuses to take action now that a possible solution is being SPOONFED to you.

Linrandir wrote:Seriously, people. The amount of f*cking hate mail I got from the anti-painter crowd was prodigious...and only ONE person has the balls to get up from their keyboard and do something in the real world?

Shame on each person who complained but refuses to take action now that a possible solution is being SPOONFED to you.

To be fair, it was a mistake... I was at TWO (forgot about one). Now, we're at 4, with one being a buddy of mine who was introduced to painter6479 by me. I also have 2 that are in unusual situations and I don't know if they're joining in for certain or not.

Due to the amount... or lack of... interest here, I posted it on Dakka Dakka, as well. I expected a larger turnout here, which is why I was limiting it to BTowners. Since I got whiffed by BTown, I'm letting people there in, if they want (but keeping them separate from BTown posts, etc for obvious reasons).

Eric