Bartertown.com

I see a lot of this on all the forums I frequent:

People dumping off vast inventories of 40k minis in favour of picking up Warmachine.

Hell, even here finding Warmachine minis for trade in any substantial quantity is a pretty difficult task. Seems like people are just eating it up.

Anyone else notice this, and other trends?

Yeah, I think it's a good trend

Not to start a GW bashing rant, but they frankly suck when it comes to customer service, bits are pricey, unit prices rise yearly (and they've announced that's the official policy now, it's called a price evaluation or some such) rules are getting more complicated and contradicting other rules due to poor wording.

Privateer Press on the other hand has great customer service, they totally address customers concerns with more than a canned reply of an e-mail. Warmachine also has better game mechanics IMO, the warjack throwing/arm locking/slamming rules are cool and concise

Maybe it'll get GW to realize they can't treat customers like c### and get away with it.

Yup...I'm finally on the up side of a gaming trend. Anyhow, hopefully Games Workshop will take notice of it(they'll have to eventually) as there are tons of other companies that are willing to consider their customers a little more.

Hell.........maybe the price hikes are just what we needed to bring attention to some of the other stuff out there. Warlord anybody?

Yuppers.

I've noticed it here and beyond.
In Virginia, where I used to live, there's a store that used to do HUGE GW sales. The customers are buying less and less and are always playing WM there, instead of 40K, now.

I did notice it here and, if my wargaming group wasn't 40K MANIACS who only play 40K, I'd try it. I don't have the time for a third gaming group, though, so I'm out.



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mysticarcher wrote:Not to start a GW bashing rant, but they frankly suck when it comes to customer service, bits are pricey, unit prices rise yearly

I agree with that.

rules are getting more complicated

Which is good IMO. I stopped playing 40k since it was such a "dumbed down" game. I play still play Fantasy and Mordheim but even these are rules lite. Then again I cut my gaming teeth on Star Fleet Battles, now THERES some rules!

and contradicting other rules due to poor wording.

GW is pretty poor at wording the rules.

Warmachine also has better game mechanics IMO, the warjack throwing/arm locking/slamming rules are cool and concise

This I completly disagree with. Warmachine is all about the combos. You have the right combo for your opponent and you win. I dipped my toe into the Warmachine pond and found the rules seriously lacking. Great minis though.

so in otherwords it is great for the powergamer?

and on changing from 1 sys to another, some like me have way toooooooo much money invested with GW to give up. just spend less.
Steve

Not to get off topic here, but I'd like to quote the first page of the Warmachine rulebook:

"Warning: not suitable for wussies! Sissies, little girls, nancy boys. Go home. This game is not for you. .... So play like you've got a pair or put down the metal and go find something plastic."

That pretty much sums it up in my book.

And I've pretty much bought all I'll ever buy from GW. I'll continue to play, but by no means will i continue to support this company who obviously has little regard for its customers.

orcdom wrote:so in otherwords it is great for the powergamer?

and on changing from 1 sys to another, some like me have way toooooooo much money invested with GW to give up. just spend less.
Steve

Thats how I roll as well.

I buy anything I want from GW either through e-bay at a greatly reduced price, or I swap stuff here.

I have been playing this game (40K) too damn long, since 89 actually.
And I am super-super victim of GW's policies. But what are you going to do?

I love the 40K world, the mythology, the models etc.
I cant quit now, but I do try to download rules, and get models at a cheaper price etc.

That way they arent getting any more of my money.

I too fall in to that category. I've invested quite a bit of money into 40K and Warhammer Fantasy as well. I pretty much use Jefe's strategy. Download as many rulebooks as I can, and use bartertown to get pretty much anything I need.

As to the GW price hikes and contradicting rules, its all true IMO. I know this out of personal experience. I don't know how many gamers I've seen get in shouting fights over the rules of 40K. The price hikes are getting higher, and more frequent as well. Also, I agree on the customer service issue. For example, I e-mailed them and their response to my question was "Its in the codex". Thats fine, except that was why I was e-mailing them, I couldn't find it in the codex.

Whoever above mentioned warlord, I suggest you try it, its great fun

Anywho, those are just my opinions.

--Meady

I look t it another way. Once the games stop being fun I'm out. I sold most of My Games Workshop stuff about a year ago. It didn't matter to me that I had several thousand dollars in my collection(not to mention the time) I was fed up and done. It's a good thing that well painted minis hold their value.

I think(hope) the trend will continue. I've noticed much more interest in some of the lesser known games at my local store. We all have our breaking point, and it seems that many people are reaching theirs when it comes to Games Workshop.

I hope Games Workshop takes notice of this trend and makes some steps to correct it. Not too long ago they put out good products at reasonable prices(which is how they became the Juggernaut in Mini Market).

I look forward to some day enjoying Warhammer again. But untill something changes I'll be trying out other games.

I agree. GW is needing something to put an end to the madness.

In my area (oklahoma city) flames of war is really popular. I bought 2 or 3 very large armies(40k) just so they could buy bigger FOW armies.


It would be nice to hear that GW lost some money 2 or 3 years in a row to make them rethink their business plan.

2 cents worth.......

Yeah, flames of war is catching on here as well.

If you notice when you go to serious gaming conventions, 40K really does not draw all that well.

it seems things are shifting, I agree.

This flames of war game your talking about, is it very costly? Can I get some general information on it Jefe? I just found their site, it looks interesting, but I'd like some info from someone who has played it such as yourself. Also, the buyer paints the models correct, or do they come painted?

I play Flames of war (soviet infantry) as much, if not more, than 40K now. The system is concise and very quick to learn if you are used to GW style rules.

Overall I think it has quite a few points that are better streamlined (artillery, cover) and more detailed (aircraft and AA guns, cover) than GW games.

If you are SERIOUSLY into WWII, you will probably find it a bit simple as it abstracts quite a few weapons and concepts down to a single stat line (e.g. all Heavy MGs are basically the same statwise) and most numbers are abstracted as its a squad level game.

A major benefit of FoW is the cost, you can have a solid and reasonably sized army for <$200 of just about any force (generally you are talking $8-$20 for most infantry units, and around $25-$40 for a large infnatry unit or tank unit). If you pick German armor, you can get in for dramatically less (I've faced competitive $90 tournament armies). Even a very model large army (like my soviet infantry) is still not much over $200.

Well its funny, but I use the FOW models in a different rules set. I use Battlefront rules, they are a little more detailed than FOW and there is a lower start up cost as far as rule books go.

The FOW/Battlefront customer support is excellent, they are very helpful and thier mail order system is very good. They are customer oriented.

The only gripe I have with FOW is that they seem to be a little pricey with their rule books and they are a bit like GW in the effec that they release new material constantly.

The models are reasonably priced however, and some are resin but most are metal, and yes... they come unpainted.