How is "BUYING" different than trading??

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YoungWolf777 ( 1080 )
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Post by YoungWolf777 » Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:10 pm

Its funny that most of the "buying is different" crowd have lower ratings. I bet when they get a higher rating they'll change their minds and want the lower rating to send first.....
I certainly won't. I've been selling and trading a ton of stuff here recently. Not a single person has had an issue with sending me money up front. I honestly wouldn't care if your rating was 2000+ here, if you wanted me to ship an item first that I was selling, I would tell you flat out to go elsewhere. Buying an item *IS* different than trading. Try winning an auction on ebay and asking the seller to ship first. It ain't gonna happen. :roll:

My rating is only 28 here at the moment. I suppose that makes me a "noob". I did have (by far) the highest positive trade rating over on the PPS forum's Bodgers Scrapyard (65), a 27 rating (100% positive) on ebay, and a 13 rating over on Games on the Go. But here I'm a 28, (Which is really 14. I don't get the inflation of 2x the number of positive trades/sales.) I guess that "defines" me as a noob here. So be it. (NM the fact that if you add up all of that positive feedback and then double it (under the system here), my combined rating here would be a 212. ((65+27+13+14)*2) = 212.)

Noob indeed. <_<

For the record: I believe that a solid ebay rating IS a valid track record of someone's history in online dealings. The feedback is distinguished between buyer and seller. If someone has a low rating here, but a solid ebay rating then I'll go ahead, especially if their buyer feedback is good and it's not all from one or two sources. That may not be good enough for some of you, but I have yet to get burned by paying attention to such things.

Quite honestly, starslayer's (and some others) attitude on this topic has put me off a bit as well. I'm surprised at it to say the very least. Asking someone to provide goods on faith in a free market economy is foreign thinking to me. Trying to rationalize it away under terms like "I have a higher rating" is just silly. "But that's the way things are done on Bartertown." Again, pretty silly. Things change, so do people. This site will wither and die without infusing fresh blood, ideas, and metal.

MEDEVL: all of the items you cited as references (plumbing, restaurants, oil change, etc.) are indeed services. They are not goods, which is what is being discussed here specifically. Now if the topic were about painting for hire for example then you would have a valid comparison. As it stands, you've got apples vs. oranges. (I also require payment up front for commission painting, unless there's a specific legal contract in place. Then again, I'm an "established" painter so I can afford to do so.) I understand where you're going with your idea there, but if you're buying painted minis sight unseen then there's other issues to work out. Pics should always be provided upon request. No pics, no deal. Simple.

Will all of this deter me from being an active member of this site? No.
Will this have me thinking twice about who I will (and won't) deal with in the future? Likely.

I have to agree with DCToymachine. If you don't like the terms, then move along. Anyone who has worked a deal with me over the last 4 years has walked away satisfied with their transaction. That's not about to change now or at any time in the future.

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Post by oaflord » Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:36 pm

2 more cents...

If you don't like the idea of shipping first, then receiving the money, don't do the deal. Pretty straightforward... There are obviously two distinct sides to this thread, with a spatter of varied opinions in between, but I have to agree with the recurring theme. The less than 50's have a different opinion than the more than 50's. I on the other hand, being a less than 50, still think that the "more than's" are on the right track. No I am not kissing up, this is just my opinion, and remember...

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Linrandir ( 108 )
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Post by Linrandir » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:09 pm

It's exactly this type of debate, IMO, that keeps the site healthy. Now, granted, I have my own personal opinions on the matter as well as some of the corollary issues that have been raised.

Since it seems I need to specify, these are personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect Bartertown policy.

Opinion #1:
Everyone has the ability to negotiate their own trade terms. If you want to push for goods first, money second, fine. If you want to push for money first, then goods, that's cool too. We the people who run the site don't care how you arrange things so long as both parties agree and no site rules are broken. Of course, I don't really care how things are arranged if both parties disagree provided that none of the site rules are broken.

Opinion #2:
I really, really hate the term noob, newbie, n00b or whatever else is passing for it these days. I find it derogatory and insulting. If I could stamp it out of the English language I would.

Opinion #3:
People can choose their own methods of establishing trustworthiness. If someone I choose to trade with has a high eBay rating I can choose to accept that, or not. Please note that no-where in the rules of Bartertown does it state a mandatory trading practice, methods of establishing credibility, or other such esoterica. Bluntly, as long as I'm here running the place there won't be any such rules unless they are absolutely necessary to maintain the site's survival.

Opinion #4:
If I'm buying something, I'm going to pay for it first unless there are bizarrely extenuating circumstances. If I feel in the least bit fishy about something, I do not pursue the deal. Sometimes you just have to let one go and write it off. Other times, I am willing to be very flexible in order to seal a deal. ;-)

Opinion #5:
I am a very big believer in respecting people and giving them the benefit of the doubt. Trade ratings are, to me, nothing more than a tool to be used in negotiation. Other factors enter into this process for me as well, and it's been a long time since I've been burned. I am wary of high shipping costs, unusual requests, and people who don't want to tell me what condition their stuff is in.
I am also very willing to help out "new" traders, or people with low ratings who want to boost them. For some reason, a positive reference from the site admin seems to carry weight. ;-)

******

What all this boils down to is really very simple: How badly do you want to close the deal? How much are you willing to compromise with the other party in order to get what you want?
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ancientsociety ( 830 )
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Post by ancientsociety » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:18 pm

My rating is only 28 here at the moment. I suppose that makes me a "noob". I did have (by far) the highest positive trade rating over on the PPS forum's Bodgers Scrapyard (65), a 27 rating (100% positive) on ebay, and a 13 rating over on Games on the Go. But here I'm a 28, (Which is really 14. I don't get the inflation of 2x the number of positive trades/sales.) I guess that "defines" me as a noob here. So be it. (NM the fact that if you add up all of that positive feedback and then double it (under the system here), my combined rating here would be a 212. ((65+27+13+14)*2) = 212.)
It's relatively easy to fake refs on ebay. It HAS happened before by having people open multiple accts., opening auctions in one, and "buying" with others. No matter how many times Ebay "decries" this practice and says it is vigilant about it, it still happens. As for the 2 other sites you mentioned, THIS IS NOT THOSE SITES. And hence, your "standing" there doesn't really have an effect on your refs here. Ebay constantly points out to its members not to buy/sell outside of the site. Why? Because Ebay protections DO NOT APPLY outside of ebay. This is normal of almost every trading site I've visited.

I have positive ratings/refs at several sites as well (GABtraders, Mahasa, Ebay, etc.) however those ratings/refs have no bearing in this community. Why? Because this is a totally different site. It is it's own community.

Like I said before, it is the height of conceit to have new members believe that the standards of this community do not or should not apply to them. Sure, new blood is always appreciated - so long as that new blood is willing to obey the rules and follow the standards of a community.

For example, if you are an immigrant to any country and wish to acquire citizenship, you must obey that nations' laws, learn its history/customs, interact with its governing/bureaucratic agencies, and conform to community standards. You won't be granted citizenship if you refuse to obey the law, believe that you should not have to conform to the rules and standards, or believe that you shouldn;t have to work as hard as others to acquire your citizenship.

It is the same thing here. Like the saying goes - You don't demand respect, you EARN it. The old cogers here have paid their dues by conforming to the standards of this community and obeyed the rules and hence have earned the respect of our peers. It isn;t a hard and fast rule that lower refs send first BUT it IS in the rules as a standard that some follow. Not everyone does.
Asking someone to provide goods on faith in a free market economy is foreign thinking to me.
The protections granted by the law are completely different for individuals than for businesses. As has already been pointed out, established businesses here are operated differently than individuals because they have commercial licenses and laws covering them. Individuals so not have this, especially when conducted over the internet @ a forum site - unlike an auction/online shop site. Hence the wariness on the part of established traders here. A police report can only do so much.
Trading Guidelines:
1. Lower rating ships first - even if I am purchasing.
2. If you agree to buy something, you have 72hrs. in which to pay. If payment is not received in 72hrs., I will automatically post a Non-Payment/Backout thread.
3. Refs are left upon positive receipt of goods, NEVER beforehand!
4. I accept Paypal & USPS money orders and charge for shipping AT COST. I make no profit from it.
5. I trade NIB/new models at retail.

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GMMStudios ( 148 )
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Post by GMMStudios » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:47 pm

ancientsociety wrote:

Like I said before, it is the height of conceit to have new members believe that the standards of this community do not or should not apply to them.
I think you are taking this a little too personally. You are acting as if the new members are these rebels coming in and changing things when in fact the opposite could be said. "New members" (which should actually be low ref people, which can be entirely different, look at the pants) are wanting things to be the way they are in the rest of the world. The old guys, or "new members" with high refs, have a twisted and elitist viewpoint and want to exploit that and make everyone pay up front. I'm not saying that either case, mine or yours, is true, I'm just saying it's a matter of perspective.

I don't really agree with either arguement to be honest. I'ts a case by case basis and what individuals are willing to do. We are all acting like there should be a rule in place either way.

@YW7. I agree with everythign you said exept the refs. I agree with ancientsociety here. Refs are for this community or don't apply. There is a nice sense of security here when it comes to refs. If there is one, it's usually true, accurate, and legit. Lin and the watchers keep it that way. For all I know refs on some other site are between buddies that passed minis back and forth at lunch time to get higher refs. That would be cought very quickly here.

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YoungWolf777 ( 1080 )
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Post by YoungWolf777 » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:05 pm

ancientsociety - So what I'm gathering from your post is this:

1- You don't trust ebay refs.

(Please reread ALL of my post about that topic. Specifically this line: "especially if their buyer feedback is good and it's not all from one or two sources.") While I admit that's no guarantee, it's a lot harder to fake if the feedback is coming from 3+ different accounts.

BTW - it IS possible to fake refs here. While I'm relatively certain the perpetrators would be caught at some point, this system is FAR from foolproof. Any member can submit a ref for anyone at any time, whether a transaction takes place or not...

2- This is "your turf".

I get it. :roll:
Because this is a totally different site. It is it's own community.
If it's your wish to isolate Bartertown from other trading communities then all I can say is be careful what you wish for. If B-town becomes a closed isolationist clique that only trusts people with 100+ ratings on their own turf, then you'll have a hard time finding new folks to deal with. I've seen it happen. It ain't pretty, and the site implodes into its own gravity well.

3- You seem to believe that all new members are "conceited" and "don't want to follow the rules."
Like I said before, it is the height of conceit to have new members believe that the standards of this community do not or should not apply to them. Sure, new blood is always appreciated - so long as that new blood is willing to obey the rules and follow the standards of a community.
It is the same thing here. Like the saying goes - You don't demand respect, you EARN it. The old cogers here have paid their dues by conforming to the standards of this community and obeyed the rules and hence have earned the respect of our peers. It isn;t a hard and fast rule that lower refs send first BUT it IS in the rules as a standard that some follow. Not everyone does.
Straight from the Rules Posting:
Typically, the trader with the lowest rating ships first, but that is negotiable.
Black and white to me. Not "the law" as some seem to think. I'm not quite sure where that became canon, but apparently we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.

At no time have I "demanded respect." I have earned it in various ways with many people. This community bleeds over into other sites as well. Many of the folks that I've had dealings with both on the PPS forums and Games on the Go are members here as well. To say that their feedback has "no bearing in this community" simply because it was posted on another site rather than here is extremely close-minded IMO, not to mention foolish. So if I sell some minis to "ranlep" on GOTG and he gives me feedback there, that carries no weight with you even though he goes by "RPLYMILL" here? (Just as one example.) Muy Incredible. I suppose I could request that they give me feedback here no matter where or how the deal was struck? Would that satisfy your inherent desire to see a big number by my name in order to take me seriously?

4- There's an old guard here. You aren't part of it so get lost.

I knew that coming in to this forum. I knew that before this thread came up. I've seen similar posts in here before on similar topics, but I stayed away as I didn't have that "big number" by my name. At this point, I simply don't care. Why engage in a discussion if no one takes you seriously unless there's a 3 digit number by your name? I'm member #78 on the PPS forum. Been there since day 1. So what? If I treated new posters over there like some of the old guard do here I'd be warned and eventually banned if I didn't lighten up.

Fortunately I have a "live and let live" motto. Say what you want. Have your part of the sandbox. Doesn't bother me in the least. What does bother me is this artificial number by the name being used as a yardstick as to just how credible the poster is. That's just plain sad.

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ancientsociety ( 830 )
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Post by ancientsociety » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:06 pm

I don't really agree with either arguement to be honest.
<<insert>>
O RLY??
The old guys, or "new members" with high refs, have a twisted and elitist viewpoint and want to exploit that and make everyone pay up front.
Thanks for playing the outwardly unbiased, really biased "neutral party".


I actually never said it is or should be a rule, which is why I used the term "standards". Sending first because of lower ratings is ONE of the standards here. Not everyone follows it and I'm not saying everyone has to. My opinion is a response to members (new/old, high rating/low rating, whatever) who believe that it has no merit whatsoever and are mystified by its use here. The one BT golden standard is:

"If you don't want to trade, DON'T trade."

Fairly simple and straightforward.
Trading Guidelines:
1. Lower rating ships first - even if I am purchasing.
2. If you agree to buy something, you have 72hrs. in which to pay. If payment is not received in 72hrs., I will automatically post a Non-Payment/Backout thread.
3. Refs are left upon positive receipt of goods, NEVER beforehand!
4. I accept Paypal & USPS money orders and charge for shipping AT COST. I make no profit from it.
5. I trade NIB/new models at retail.

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ancientsociety ( 830 )
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Post by ancientsociety » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:24 pm

1- You don't trust ebay refs.
Not outside of Ebay.
2- This is "your turf".
Never said nor implied that is was. I Did say that this was a community and hence is our (all of us) site. If this was just "my turf", it'd be pretty lonely (and I'm not sure Adam would be happy about that...).
3- You seem to believe that all new members are "conceited" and "don't want to follow the rules."
That's a somewhat selective misrepresentation of my position. I do believe that some members are conceited, that some don't want to follow standards, and that some don't want to follow the rules (see the BTF).

Again, I will point out that I used the term "standard", not "rule" to describe sending first/low rating.
Would that satisfy your inherent desire to see a big number by my name in order to take me seriously?
I totally take you seriously. Like I said earlier, we (including me) want constructive discourse.
4- There's an old guard here. You aren't part of it so get lost.
This actually offends me. In no way did I say "get lost" to anyone here - ever. Period. I've disagreed with people. I've critiqued people. I've been snarky (I'm still pushing for that official "Bartertown Curmudgeon" title - hint, hint Lin..) But, I've never said to any BT member get lost or you're not good enough to hang here.
What does bother me is this artificial number by the name being used as a yardstick as to just how credible the poster is.
Sorry but refs do equal cred during a trade, both here and on other sites. If it didn't matter then why did you bring it up, multiple times?
I did have (by far) the highest positive trade rating over on the PPS forum's Bodgers Scrapyard (65), a 27 rating (100% positive) on ebay, and a 13 rating over on Games on the Go.
I'm member #78 on the PPS forum. Been there since day 1.
Trading Guidelines:
1. Lower rating ships first - even if I am purchasing.
2. If you agree to buy something, you have 72hrs. in which to pay. If payment is not received in 72hrs., I will automatically post a Non-Payment/Backout thread.
3. Refs are left upon positive receipt of goods, NEVER beforehand!
4. I accept Paypal & USPS money orders and charge for shipping AT COST. I make no profit from it.
5. I trade NIB/new models at retail.

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YoungWolf777 ( 1080 )
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Post by YoungWolf777 » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:56 pm

Love the selective quoting going on here.

You forgot a key couple of words:
I'm member #78 on the PPS forum. Been there since day 1. So what?
Re: the "get lost" statement - What I'm trying to point out is what I perceived from your post. (and others like it.) The whole "over 50 vs. under 50" has come up many times in this thread. What seems to be happening here is that the ref number is not just used as a credibility rating while trading, it's being used to judge the poster in this very discussion. If you're under 50, what you think / say / post has no bearing on the community and it's being used to dismiss the opinions of that poster out of hand. If you're over that magic 50 then you're "one of us" and think "our" way. No transactions have taken place in this thread (to my knowledge), yet that number has been used repeatedly as a big yardstick by virtually everyone involved.

Why did I bring it up repeatedly? To point out how stupid it is. You seem to have selectively missed that. Both times you quoted me I was showing just how artificial that magic number really is. Ask any accountant what 2+2 is. They'll all say the same thing: what do you want it to be? (Yes, my father is an accountant and he told me that joke.)

The first quote was to show that according to this artificial 50 "noob" status, I am a "noob" when it comes to trading. The math and 4 years of experience in online trading says otherwise. I've successfully completed well over 100 trades/sales online over the last 4 years, moving thousands of dollars worth of minis across the globe. I do know what I'm talking about, but because I'm a lowly 28 on Bartertown, what I say doesn't count.

The second quote was to show that simply because you may be an old guard on one site, it matters not a whit in reality as to what kind of person you are, nor really how trustworthy you will be on your next transaction. What matters is how you treat people, regardless of their "status" on any particular site.

This entire discussion has devolved into an "us vs. them" debate. It started out as a rant about the audacity of someone asking an old timer to pay up front when paying cash. According to the rules of this site, that's perfectly legit. What has occurred since that point is a meandering diatribe of "how dare they" and "that's how it's done".

I've stated my opinion. I feel the number next to my name has absolutely no bearing on whether it's any more valid than the next posters. I think people should stop treating it as such. I'm done.

--YW7--

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ancientsociety ( 830 )
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Post by ancientsociety » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:18 pm

YoungWolf,

The whole "over 50 vs. under 50" you refer to has come up multiple times in reference to the respective viewpoint of that crowd, not their relative merit or respect here.

No one on this thread has "dismissed" the opinion of those in the "under 50" crowd. No one has said that the "under 50" isn't entitled to their opinion.

Nothing has degenerated, this is simply a thread of community members voicing their opinions and agreeing/disagreing with others. This is called discourse. It is at the heart of any lively debate and, as such, it always has an element of "us vs. them", namely that there are two (or more)opposing viewpoints and two (or more) opposing crowds who agree with said viewpoint.

I think you want to play the martyr here (i.e. because of "my lowly 28, what I say doesn't matter", etc.) and look like you are the victim simply because others disagree with your viewpoint on this matter. You consistently talk about how ratings/refs/etc. are arbitrary and "stupid", yet you bring them up constantly to show how experienced you are. You claim that people are attacking/belittling/etc. your opinion because of your "status" on BT, yet you constantly talk about your status at other sites.

I'm sorry that you believe people have attacked you or that the old timers here don't respect you but no one has done that...
Trading Guidelines:
1. Lower rating ships first - even if I am purchasing.
2. If you agree to buy something, you have 72hrs. in which to pay. If payment is not received in 72hrs., I will automatically post a Non-Payment/Backout thread.
3. Refs are left upon positive receipt of goods, NEVER beforehand!
4. I accept Paypal & USPS money orders and charge for shipping AT COST. I make no profit from it.
5. I trade NIB/new models at retail.

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starslayer ( 548 )
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Post by starslayer » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:33 pm

Obviously opinions are very divided on this topic. With most newer members on the "buying is different" side.
I would send first to a member with a much lower rating,but I would take it on a case by case basis.
Lets not turn this discussion into a bunch of veiled insults. Some people are taking this much to personally.

But one thing is for sure, refs here on Bartertown do mean something. They are not an artificial number.

Young Wolf I have no "attitude" towards new members. Obviously you did not read all my posts. You seem angry with your comments of "get lost" and "its your turf". Yo should calm down a bit and read whatyou are posting. You come off very inflammatory and angry.

It boils down to this:
Don't like it? Don't do the deal.
Simple.

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YoungWolf777 ( 1080 )
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Post by YoungWolf777 » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:36 pm

I'm far from angry. Quite the opposite in fact. I find this whole thing quite disheartening. It seems that starslayer wants to label someone who disagrees with their viewpoint as "angry". DCToymachine and Massawyrm both had very well stated opinions posted, but both were blown off and labeled "angry."

starslayer:
DCtoy and Massawyrm, you guys sound angry....
Again, Massawyrm stated his opinion and said that he was put off by this attitude that he was perceiving from the community. Again, he was put down, this time labeled "conceited."

starslayer:
No offense,but don't you think its a little "conceited" to just pop into Bartertown, you've been a member a week, you have no verified trades here, a 0 rating. And you think somebody with a 200+ rating who's been here for years should just trust you and send you money?
Wow.
Prime example of what I'm talking about here. Massawyrm was not asking you for money starslayer, yet you judged his opinion based entirely on his trade rating. Is that right? I think not. Prefacing it with "no offense" doesn't excuse it IMO.

Massawyrm tried to follow that up and stated that he's been put off from the community by all of this. At that point ancientsociety jumped on him and proceeded to selectively pick his post apart, starting with this:

ancientsociety:
The "conceit" of us old cogers you talk about is nothing more than experience. Long-time BTers started out with low ratings just like everyone else. They acquired those high ratings by following the rules of this community and going by its standards. ALL of us, at one time or another, have shipped/paid first. No matter how high your ratings are, there will still be someone higher who may ask you to ship/pay first, so we STILL do it occasionally.

The PROBLEM occurs when new noobs believe that the long-time, established standards do not or should not apply to them. THAT is conceit.
As has already been established in this thread, the RULE is that both parties agree to terms, NOT that the lower rating always ships first. That is merely a guideline. So the problem (as I see it) is that this whole lower rating always ships first business is being touted as gospel, when it is in fact merely a suggested guideline. The fact is I'd be happy to do business with Massawyrm. Heck, I'd even ship first if need be.

I could go on, but I jumped in shortly after that so it would be redundant.

Aftermath? You've run off one potentially good asset to the B-Town community. You've offended / alienated plenty more than the ones who might have posted in this thread. All for what? Did you prove anything? Trade anything? Sell anything? What? I just don't get it.

Written communication has it's drawbacks. I fully understand the meaning of discourse. However, selectively quoting an individual to use their words in a manner that you see fit doesn't equal discourse, nor does judging a person based solely on the time they've been an active member and/or their trade rating. I've only quoted pertinent pieces here in the interest of brevity. In all cases I've taken an entire paragraph if possible. Simply because I tend not to use lots of emoticons or netspeak (LOL, etc.) doesn't mean that I am angry. I simply prefer not to use them.

Maybe you both should reevaluate who's "angry" here?

YW7:
I have to agree with DCToymachine. If you don't like the terms, then move along.
starslayer:
It boils down to this:
Don't like it? Don't do the deal.
Simple.
At what point did we disagree on this? :?:
Last edited by YoungWolf777 on Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ancientsociety ( 830 )
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Post by ancientsociety » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:06 pm

YoungWolf,

If you want to talk about "selectively quoting" and putting words in others' mouths, then please review your OWN posts here.
It seems that both starslayer and ancientsociety want to label someone who disagrees with their viewpoint as "angry".
Where did I say anyone who disagrees with me is "angry"??? Example, source???

Oh, that's right, I never did!
As has already been established in this thread, the RULE is that both parties agree to terms, NOT that the lower rating always ships first. That is merely a guideline. So the problem (as I see it) is that this whole lower rating always ships first business is being touted as gospel, when it is in fact merely a suggested guideline. The fact is I'd be happy to do business with Massawyrm. Heck, I'd even ship first if need be.
Again, you're putting words in my mouth. Again, I never said it was a rule. I said it was a standard (even in the quote you used!). Standard /= "gospel". Some follow it, some don't. Just don't be offended/mystified/pissed off if someone asks you to send first if you have a lower rating.
Aftermath? You've run off one potentially good asset to the B-Town community. You've offended / alienated plenty more than the ones who might have posted in this thread. All for what? Did you prove anything? Trade anything? Sell anything? What? I just don't get it.
What did I say to new members to "run them off"? All I've said is that I disagree with some viewpoints expressed here. That's all. I've not used harsh language, belittled anyone, acted elitist (BTW, if we really WERE elitist, we would simply ignore new users. Much more effective..), etc.

If a member can't handle people disagreeing with their viewpoint and are so deeply offended by it that they leave, I think that speaks volumes about his or her maturity and personality than any written word could.

Like I said before you're attempting to play the victim in all this and you are now attempting to stifle the discussion by making those who post here hesitant to express their views through the threat of offending other members ("What if I offend someone?", "What if my views make someone leave Bartertown?"). Congrats, you win an argument over the intertubes!
Trading Guidelines:
1. Lower rating ships first - even if I am purchasing.
2. If you agree to buy something, you have 72hrs. in which to pay. If payment is not received in 72hrs., I will automatically post a Non-Payment/Backout thread.
3. Refs are left upon positive receipt of goods, NEVER beforehand!
4. I accept Paypal & USPS money orders and charge for shipping AT COST. I make no profit from it.
5. I trade NIB/new models at retail.

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Brother Ranz ( 220 )
Resident Trader
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:53 pm
Location: Albany NY
Contact:

Post by Brother Ranz » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:15 pm

I don't see the difference between trading *stuff* and trading *stuff* for money. Some people do, but they aren't thinking it through. All of our *stuff* has value and it is always expressed in terms of money. If someone screws you and doesn't send *stuff* as promised, you will cite the retail value as the amount by which you've been screwed. So why have the distinction.

Starslayer wanted my dwarves. He offered money. I accepted. He said: "You have a low rating and I have ten times your rating. Please send first. I understand if this queers the deal, but that's how I will feel secure" (Paraphrase). I could have said "Hey! I have 100% rating at ebay with 80+ happy customers!!! I think you should send first because this is a sale, not a trade." But it is a trade, for money. And ebay ratings are not important here, so I sent *stuff* and I am expecting money any time now as he received the *stuff* in good order on Wednesday.

Why is the distinction between sale and trade necessary?

User avatar
ancientsociety ( 830 )
Millenium Trader
Posts: 1631
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 2:46 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Post by ancientsociety » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:25 pm

Brother Ranz,

It's not any different. That's why this is called "BARTERtown" and not "CAPITALISMtown" (which, if you think about it, would be a cool web addy for Walmart).

I enjoyed your use of "stuff" to describe the "stuff" that happened with your "stuff".
Trading Guidelines:
1. Lower rating ships first - even if I am purchasing.
2. If you agree to buy something, you have 72hrs. in which to pay. If payment is not received in 72hrs., I will automatically post a Non-Payment/Backout thread.
3. Refs are left upon positive receipt of goods, NEVER beforehand!
4. I accept Paypal & USPS money orders and charge for shipping AT COST. I make no profit from it.
5. I trade NIB/new models at retail.

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