Bartertown.com

Hey all
I don't know about other people,But having people make deals only to break them,and only finding out the deal is a bust when after a week goes by without getting a package,and you have to email the person to find out you no-longer have a deal; Or being in trade negotiations that suddenly STOP completely,seems to be getting more and more common.
Please people at least have the common curteousy to contact the other party to say No thanks!!!
Is it really asking that much???

Cheers
Peace

If a deal is "sealed" and they back out. Isn't that considered fraud?

It is not considered fraud per se but it is grounds to leave neutral or negative feedback.

So, everyone, if you're going to agree to something remember that you are obligated to comply!!
Do note that extenuating circumstances apply on an individual basis and it's really up to the person you're breaking the deal with to consider them when they leave feedback.

Glad to see that, Lin.

Isn't that a departure from earlier versions of the rule, where it wasn't an offense able to earn feedback unless (basically) someone actually shipped models?

Like I said, I'm glad to see it, regardless!

Eric

Agreed. I thought it was the other way around, but if this is the case, I am behind it 100%.

Ummmm, I thought the deal wasn't "sealed" until at least one party sent models/paid money/or some other form of transaction took place. If someone can leave a bad ref just because I back out of a deal (whether at the last minute or not), I won't be using Bartertown as often as I normally would. After all it IS "bartering" and until goods/money/etc. change hands, deals can be broken. Heck even retailers have the option not to supply/sell something to a customer as long as no transaction has occured.


Although I have been noticing that VERY few people return (sometimes frequent) PMs or requests for sent confirmation.

Maybe a perusal of the *rulez* is in order, and barring that maybe a clarification by Lin or other admin?

From the Bad Trader Forum:

A question that keeps coming up is "What constitutes a trade/purchase/agreement?" This is a good question and I am formally defining it now:

A Bartertown 'Trade' occurs when both parties have agreed to a transaction, be it a purchase (ie buyer-seller) or exhange of items and/or services, and have agreed to the terms of said transaction.
For example. Morlock and I agree to trade his Warmachine Cryx for my Warhammer Fantasy Chaos. We negotiate what we're trading specifically, we negotiate shipping terms, and we negotiate a time-frame for said shipping. Once we agree - and this can be as simple as "you're cool with that?" or as complex as sending a separate email that states the exact terms of everything agreed to along with a request to reply-with-agreement - the Trade is on.
If something unexpected happens, like a family emergency or unexpected deployment, it is the responsibility of the person in question to let the other party know what's happened within a reasonable time frame.

I'll have to update the Bartertown Rules with something for Bad Trading, as they're not directly included.

I just took a look and I know we have over 10000 members but the rules have only been read around 5700+ times. I personally have read them more than once. (not everybody has traded but still) Makes you wonder...

Lin: Not trying to be annoying but I think "A Bartertown 'Trade' occurs when both parties have agreed to a transaction, be it a purchase (ie buyer-seller) or exhange of items and/or services, and have agreed to the terms of said transaction." could lead to a problem.

What happens if I agree to trade with you and you send first (for whatever reason). I wait a few days for an email/PM that you've sent, send a few emaisl/PM asking for confirmation, and/or wait a week or so for the items/payment. However, I hear nothing from you and receive nothing. If I write after this and say "well since you never replied/sent/whatever" I'm calling the trade off. Does that mean you have a right to leave me a bad ref?

If so, I totally disagree with that policy! I can see it leading to abuse. If not, maybe I'm just very slow...

Very interested in seeing how this one turns out....

ancientsociety wrote:What happens if I agree to trade with you and you send first (for whatever reason). I wait a few days for an email/PM that you've sent, send a few emaisl/PM asking for confirmation, and/or wait a week or so for the items/payment. However, I hear nothing from you and receive nothing. If I write after this and say "well since you never replied/sent/whatever" I'm calling the trade off. Does that mean you have a right to leave me a bad ref?

So in other words, we have an agreement to trade. You have no confirmation that I've shipped and no communication from me. You also wait a reasonable amount of time to receive the goods.
Since we have agreed that I ship first, but you have no confirmation of that, you're not obligated to send your half until you receive said confirmation (in this case, the package arriving). If I included Delivery Confirmation, signature confirmation, or some other form of tracking, then you would have confirmation of my shipping.

If you never receive anything from me, then I have violated the terms of our agreement. If, based on that, you decide to cancel the trade any negative feedback I leave for you could be considered retaliatory.

Also from the Bad Trader Forum:

The definition of legitimate complaint: If you have not received your part of the trade/purchase within a reasonable time after you've sent what you agreed to, if you don't get what you bought, if the items arrive in a different condition than what they were promised (ie damaged or pieces missing), and of course if the other person lied about something; all these are legitimate reasons to complain. If another trader is rude, this is not the place.

Does that make sense?

So you are really saying is that it comes down to receiving confirmation of shipping, whether it be a simple "Yeah, it's in the post" or a confirmation/tracking number. Before that, it isn't a trade. Forgive me for my need for clarification, but as Denzel said in Philadelphia... Explain it to me like I am a 4 year old...

OK.. so I am curious now..

I was in negotiations for some MW models from another member, we eventually got to a price, and I requested an address to paypal funds to. Never got it, but did get his physical address in a PM, with no instructions. When I asked for clarification along the lines of "What did you send this for, I wanted a PayPal address?" Nothing was sent back. Time passed, and eventually the trade dropped off my mental radar. (Mid October)

(Mid November), trader contacts me and apologizes for not mailing figs, even though I had never paid, then requests Money Order, not paypal.. I send note that I can only do paypal, "real money" being hard to come by at the moment.. did not hear back from him..

(2 days ago) trader sends PM asking if I got the models. ??? I still haven't paid, he never alerted me he had sent anything, and I certainly haven't gotten anything. I inquired why he had sent if I had not paid, and asked if he had used DC on the parcel. At this point, no info from him.

So.. Lin, how would this work out.. I THOUGHT we had a deal in mid October.. but never heard back in regards to how to pay him.. then in November, he requests alternate method of payment, and apologizes for not mailing, and now he is asking if I got parcel.

I do not feel that this is a "broken" deal, since weeks passed without confirmation of anything, and I am out no money.. but HE might think so..

-Porkuslime

Got the replies, have to run home. I will reply later and put everything into something approximating a sequential order of events.