Bartertown.com

Okay. Since the Thread is (rightfully) locked in the Bartertown Information section, I'd like to start this HERE.

Lin... you know I'm a big fan of BTown and (no kiss up intended) you as a mod... And I don't think I've ever come out & said something negative about BTown or its' rules before... but I think the newest rule is kinda suck@ss.

I mean... Yeah. Bumping is annoying. If people pay attention, however, they can ignore bumped threads. I do. Limiting it to 1 post per week is kinda stifling since, after 3 days, the darn ad will be on page 2 or 3, where it'll get less exposure.

Is there any chance this rule could be altered... Say, for example, enable bumping ability with restrictions.
For example, you can only reply to your own message to answer someone elses post on it, OR to update the thread (Hi. Sold the SOB and lowered the price on all my necrons by 10% --for example). Anything else would fall under whatever consequences posting more than once will fall under.

I just see the actual act of USING Btown to peruse the ads becoming far more cumbersome under this new rule update, IMO.


Anyone agree? Disagree?
Your opinion, Lin?

Eric

The most annoying thing about bumping is seeing *bump*
The second is having to weed through posts to see what's really new and what's just been refreshed.

I don't mind bumping if it's for legitimate reasons: there is high interest in the post, lots of offers, models have been traded/sold/otherwise removed etc. but bumping just to get it back to the top... all that encourages is everyone to bump and someone will always end up on the next page or otherwise overlooked.

Since that's the reason most people bump, I'd just as soon they had to repost.

.02

I'd like to throw my opinion in if you don't mind.

Personally, I'd rather see people bumping their thread than seeing them make the same thread over and over and over again every few days. Posts within the same thread clutter the boards less than several copies of the same thread within the same forum.

However, bumping should be kept to a minimum, so as to give other traders a fair shot at getting their threads out, too. Reason and moderation are the key, but people have differing opinions on what reason and moderation are.

That being said, I will honour and uphold whatever rules admin set forth here (it's what I signed on to do).

Thanks, MM, for presenting the opportunity to clarify.

This rule is intended to prevent the thing people complain to me about the most: *bump*
This is why we've disabled post bumping inside the forums. That will not change. However...

Updating an ad is not bumping if there have been changes made to the inventory or pricing presented in the ad. It is bumping if "hey i still have this stuff available" is all that's written, or something to that extent.

Interest shown in an ad is not bumping. If you see something posted a few days ago that catches your fancy (and it's not your ad!) replying is not bumping.

Insofar as the X number of posts within timeframe Y stricture, that's something we've used since Adam first asked Morlock and I to start weeding posts back on the old-old-old boards. Now, here's where things get tricky.

Let's say I have some LOTR Riders of Rohan I want to get rid of (which I do) and other miscellaneous stuff from WHFB and 40K. I can post an ad with those items together in the LOTR, WHFB and 40K forums. A week later, I can post another ad with the same items OR I can update at any time.
What I can't do is relist the items every day in each forum. That's post spamming, and no one has been crass enough to merit a rule amendment thereof (and I do appreciate that!).

Does this clarify?

Edit:
I have amended the rule to provide the additional explanations contained herein. Please feel free to comment as appropriate.

Also, IIRC the originator of a post has the ability to edit and delete their own post. The relevance here is that when I would do some trades (which is very rare in my case as I am a model miser) and the ad would get sucked under onto the next page I would simply find it and delete it and repost a new one. That way it is still only one post.

Now, with the new "updating" the time being taken to do that is cut way down.

This rule is intended to prevent the thing people complain to me about the most: *bump*
This is why we've disabled post bumping inside the forums.

Can't argue that point. *Bump* is annoying. I still think the feature is helpful and there's the possibility that allowing it could be good if it was subject to tight limitations.

Updating an ad is not bumping if there have been changes made to the inventory or pricing presented in the ad. It is bumping if "hey i still have this stuff available" is all that's written, or something to that extent.

Interest shown in an ad is not bumping. If you see something posted a few days ago that catches your fancy (and it's not your ad!) replying is not bumping.

Okay. Now, I agree with that. Bumping is just that. Bumping for the simple pleasure of having your post near the top of the list.
What's the use of editing or posting to your own thread to update it if people are less likely to see it?... I don't want to say NOBODY will see it, as I'm sure there are those who WILL go back a page or 2.
If there was a way to check it, though, I'd be willing to bet that the exposure is less than half of what it is on the first page.

I looked at the 40K forum to get the following information:

There are 50 posts on a page. Page 1 of the 40K trade section goes back to the 8th... That's about 2.5 days worth of posts to fill a whole page. Not alot when you can't repost for 7 days. By the time you're reposting, your original is buried on page 3 or 4.

So, If I post a trade message and 3 days later I update it... it's still on page 2, so what's the use in updating?

Doesn't 3 or 4 days sound more reasonable?

Maybe that could be a good perk for paying members... no post limits?

I want to revisit a quote for a sec.:

Updating an ad is not bumping if there have been changes made to the inventory or pricing presented in the ad. It is bumping if "hey i still have this stuff available" is all that's written, or something to that extent.

Could the rule be amended to every 4 days instead of every 7, or possibly that you may post more frequesntly IF YOU ARE UPDATING YOUR LIST and not simply reposting the same list (or listing 3 different armies in 3 different posts)?

You know, man... Whatever it is is whatever it is. It won't affect me that much, as I tend to answer other people's ads more often than I post my own... It's just that BTown has been a bit less structured in the past than it's starting to get and, while I'm on the same page as you with most of the changes, this one just strikes me as a bit too ... I don't know... too limiting?



Anyway...

Still a BT fan, as always,
Eric

I think the principle disconnect we're having is in how people access new posts. Right now, if you automatically log in and click on the "New posts" link you get nothing. However, if you check each forum you will see new posts (though not necessarily that they've been replied to).

However, if you use the manual login option you will be able to use the New Posts (or whatever it's called) feature to see everything that's been posted since your last login. That's how I keep track of new posts and the like.

Adam is working on fixing that bug; once he does I think the onus presented by the new rule will quickly vanish.

I think I get where you're coming from.

I have it set so that I am, essentially, never logged out. I don't need to log in each time I come on here because I just have BTown remember everything.
Now, when I first open the site, I get orange flags in every section with new posts since my last visit. Once I visit any section, then come back to the initial page, the orange flags are gone from every section.
So, what I have to do is go through and look at each posts last reply to see if it's recent or not.
Are you saying that, if I log out & back in each time, BTown will only show new posts, so I won't HAVE to go through & look at the last reply to every thread?

Assuming the above is corect:

Adam is working on fixing that bug; once he does I think the onus presented by the new rule will quickly vanish.

Is there any way that the automatic log in feature could be disabled, requiring us to log in every visit? That way, when I update my thread, for example, it'll show up for anyone looking in that section.
Now, anyone simply typing *bump* as a reply would do the same thing... but they'd fall under the new rule.

Eric

Why not do what other forums suggest for armylists

and put your ads in your sig file if you want it to get noticed. thus everytime you do anything normal its like a small ad for your stuff... of course huge text is annoying but a few links shouldnt be an issue...

*edit*
trades > cool sig

Well, the problem with that is that there aren't enough characters available for most people's trade lists.
Shoot. The little sig I have below almost empties my available characters.

Eric

To further the signature part a possibility is to post and ad and then copy and paste the link to the ad into your sig. example being..

40K for trade <link>
CCG for trade <link>


This would also work BUT you would need to update it every week or so to make sure the links are still good as the auto delete feature trashes anything over "x" number of days without a reply.

Currently the number of characters in a signature is 255, what should we up it to?

TrademasterAdam

Personally, I'm okay with 255. It keeps us all from being long winded.
If you were going to up it, though, I wouldn't think more than 300 to be necessary.

My point was only that my trade list wouldn't, by far, fit into there.

Perhaps another perk for members? Bigger sig's?

Eric

Maybe a member's perk could be the ability to have a static tradelist in their profile or on a separate page, then in the sig you could put 'check my profile for my trade list' or something like that. That way it wouldn't require updating the sig every week.

I don't think extending the signature length is a good idea, for memebers or otherwise. That's just going to encourage people to use the whole thing. It's a pain when people's sig lines are consistantly longer than their actual posts, especially when you can't turn off viewing of other people's sigs.

giant sigs is an utterly moronic idea.

Don't do it.