Bartertown.com

I think this rule should either be enforced or removed. As it is now, all it does is penalize those of us who follow the rules. Our posts get bumped to later pages by people frequently reposting the same thing or making 2 or 3 single line posts in a row. Don't get me wrong, i think the rule is a good idea... or it would be if it was actually followed.

I just ran a sript on the last week of posts in the WH40K and WHFB forums to look for violations. Here's the summary:

WHFB:
number of users with 2 posts: 9
number of users with 3 posts: 3
total number of posts: 103
illegal posts: 15

WH40K:
number of users with 2 posts: 24
number of users with 3 posts: 4
number of users with 4 posts: 4
number of users with 8 posts: 1
number of users with 9 posts: 1
total number of posts: 188
illegal posts: 59

Nearly a third of all the posts in the 40K section are in violation of the rule.

I can see how it's not a big deal if someone only waits 5 or 6 days instead of 7 to make a new post, but that's not what's happening in a lot of cases. The fact that there are people with 3, 4 and even 8 and 9 posts in the last week ought to prove that. The rest of us manage to combine things into a single ad and avoid posting the same thing everyone other day. It's not too much to ask.
I can't be the only one who's annoyed by some of the more blatent violations of this rule.

I know that you're not the only one annoyed by it. A number of us have discussed it in the chat room.

Are there any regular moderators here to handle the issue? (I know Insidius is often quite busy) Though I don't know of any other mods for this side of the site.

Lin and Adam both can/should take care of the problems

and this is part of a discussion i am involved in now too. the discussion originated on emails from people offering web space for figs (stuff the person has never even posted about) but i mentioned even getting emails from old posts, and current posts within a weeks time usually is kept on the first page and second page should be considered old posts.
not posts you made 2 days before beause people cant follow posting rules.


Steve

I hate this problem because I intentionally wait to post until the week is up. I have called a few people out on this and been BLASTED both in the section and through PM. It is just a joke.

Another pet peeve is the whole eBay ad in the sale/trade section.

What ever happened to the whole pay/levels idea? I will state again that I would happily pay a few dollars a month to end some of the BS that is happening. I am not sure if it would pay someone full time, but at least make it a little more reasonable to stop the multi/wrong posts.

Anyway - as a regular user, who typically comes here 8-10 times a day, I am getting fed up with it. Perhaps more moderators who can make changes, or HEAVEN FORBID - people start getting banned for these actions. I would suggest starting with a month for the first violation (after a warning or even two, of course), 6 months for the second and forever on the third.

It would also be nice to make it impossible to sign up without reading and agreeing to the rules of posting. I am sure this is possible, geez GW can do it download their crappy PDF rules changes, why can't the trademaster come up with something. At least then when you start banning people they have no excuse.

Guess I should start weaning myself off Bartertown. I am sure there are some who would gladly say hasta la vista, but I like it here. It would be tough to leave, but sometimes I just want to say SEE YA!!!

Ekister

It seems like it should be possible to implement a feature that actually restricts one's ability to generate more than one new topic per section per week. Though I get the impression that a lot of existing code patchwork is already a dam ready to break. Would save all the pissing and moaning on everybody's part, though, if it could be automated.

the ebay adds if/when i see them i PM lin or adam about them as soon as i see them and they are usually gone. they are not supposed to be in the same area.

also one thing that could force people or at least as close as possible is when they sign up go through a set by step process of each rule, agree to each one seperately (they arent that long to begin with) then after several agreements join up.

there was a question about multiple postings during the week that was ok'd a while back, if there has been a change in the original post like a sell of of a bunch of stuff, IIRC they could repost. and with that bumping legitimates (non store owners) to the next page maybe this ought to be rethought out to just make them edit thier posts.

and i under stand that one of the phrases about letting the sponsors have more leeway was that they paid the bills.

even if they are paying the bills, businesses should follow the same rules as the rest of us. we are all here for the same reason. supposedly anyways.

i am also one that visits here several times a day. i like window shopping, and i cant remember the last time i actually posted a trade add, i just have been replying to them. i have also been visiting the discussion areas more.

Steve

well, I haven't seen too many of the stores abuse the system. You get the initial impression that they post a ton of stuff all at once, but it's all in different categories, so if you were browsing instead of looking at "since my last visit" posts then you would never know the difference. The ebay stuff is obnoxious, though and there's a separate category for it anyway.

I can think of a select few notorious abusers that I've seen in the past couple of weeks that will post 5 topics in a matter of minutes in just the 40k section. They are obviously illiterate <not smart> that can't read the rules and must be using "voice to text" technology to type their posts because they can't seem to write coherently either. I mean, if you're going to take time to post an ad, make it readable...make it look like an inventory list, not just a blob of text.

<rant about igmo's (ignorant morons) completed>

well even the voice programs can make corky look like they can type.
all i can say maybe Lin ought to yell at them. and posts ought to be combined. and i remember the rant lin had about 6mos or so ago about the ebay ads, that if they werent in the right section after the first warning they would be deleted.


Steve

Well deleting those ebay ads is one thing, but who wants to do that over and over, sometimes for the same idiot. How about banning them?

I will say, especially since I have been guilty of this lately, I have no problem with someone listing a bunch of trade stuff and then having a link to an eBay ad with something bigger that they have tried to trade here. I have done that twice now (of couse only posting once a week). I just got feed up with being bumped and said screw it. I also saw the multi post individual and was really pissed because it bumped my one SUPER long post off the first page.

Annoying.

I still say ban a few people and make it public and maybe some regulars who are pushing the envelope will straighten up.

Ekister

Yeah, a public hanging always helps with the rule of law. Just look at Vlad the Impaler, he had a zero crime rate...

that was also one of the issues covered in the last discussion i was in on about attaching an ebay ad to a legitimate trade add, that was deemed fine, it just kept the post count down. i dont see anything wrong with it myself.

but people that are posting ebay adds in the wrong forum, need:
warned once, add moved
second time add deleted and warned again
3rd time, month ban
4th time, gone
i figure after twice you ought to get the hint.
because after all bartertown is a trading forum, not a place to sell your crap. granted its nice to buy something but that is not what bartertown is, its a trading forum, not an extension of ebay.

Steve

Well guys, to be honest, it seems like I'm the only one ever enforcing that rule, whichs puts me in a weird place. It's definitely part of the rules, and hence my job to take care of multiple threads, but at the same time, it's rather discouraging to know that I'm the only mod doing anything about it.

I've spoken to Lin and Adam on several occasions in the past about that particular rule, and I guess they decided to leave it as is at that point.

I'm still not convinced that it penalizes anyone, as it's rather simple to edit and delete ads here.

As far as the people who blatantly disregard or ignore this rule, I do as much as I can. I can't catch them all, I'm only one mod, as I said. If it makes you feel any better, I've busted at least 2 dozen people this week alone doing this very thing. Also, I have NO adminitrative powers here, only Lin and Adam to to my knowledge. So I can't DO anything about them posting these ads, I can only remove the ad, and give them a warning.

Please don't get upset at the mods, get upset at the smacktards who don't seem to want to read or follow the rules.

Anyway - as a regular user, who typically comes here 8-10 times a day, I am getting fed up with it. Perhaps more moderators who can make changes, or HEAVEN FORBID - people start getting banned for these actions. I would suggest starting with a month for the first violation (after a warning or even two, of course), 6 months for the second and forever on the third.

Banning is a bit harsh a reaction to such a petty infraction, don't you think? We keep track of people's infractions here, believe it or not. And here's an interesting fact: only two people in the HISTORY of Bartertown have persisted in posting Multiple threads AFTER they've been warned. TWO. They've been dealt with for others reasons since then, though.

I don't think banning will solve anything unless we start banning people on the FIRST infraction, and frankly, I'd like bartertown to remain a friendly place, not *edit* like most other 40k sites I've been to. Would you prefer the mods here act like Nazis when it comes to the rules and their enforcement? Would it make your time here that much more enjoyable, when the number of potential traders for you to deal with dwindles to nothing because of the stringent posting rules?

I don't want to be an a-hole to our members, personally.

It would also be nice to make it impossible to sign up without reading and agreeing to the rules of posting. I am sure this is possible, geez GW can do it download their crappy PDF rules changes, why can't the trademaster come up with something. At least then when you start banning people they have no excuse.

This is something I've been rallying for for a long time, but it simply comes down to Adam having the time to code it, and whether or not the code will even allow such a thing. Besides, if you can come up with a technology that somehow KNOWS when a person's read soemthing, I think you'd become a rich individual. We have no way of forcing people to read things. Please be more realistic.

Guess I should start weaning myself off Bartertown. I am sure there are some who would gladly say hasta la vista, but I like it here. It would be tough to leave, but sometimes I just want to say SEE YA!!!

If that's the case, I think you'll find no one will miss you, sir. I'm not being rude, or trying to, but threatening to leave in order to somehow encourage change is not the way to go about things.

If you're really that passisonate about the things you've expressed here, I suggest talking to Adam or Lin about it personally. If that doesn't work, then you're just going to have to deal with it, because these things probably aren't a huge priority right now.

If it really bothers all of you that much to follow the rules while others are not, then you have my express permission: Every time you see someone breaking the rules, please inform me via email or PM and I will take care of it. You probably should have been doing this anyway, if you're so concerned, but now you know you're able to. I hope this will help give the mods an extra set of eyes and ears.

I am going to recommend to Adam once again that I think the rules should be posted at the top of EVERY forum section, hopefully that will make some amount of difference, but I doubt it. Like I said, we can't MAKE people read the rules.

And for the record, I don't think removing the rule altogether is a good idea. Then we won't be permitted to remove threads at all (since they aren't doing anything wrong) and the database will really become bloated then, causing all sorts of new problems.

As far as I know, the reason we even have the rules is to keep the place cleaned up so that the site doesn't bog down and crash the server or whatever. It's not so you don't have to be 'inconvenienced' by reading "OMG Spaec Mariens for sell or trade for Trynids!11!!" 3 times a day. There is an actual reasoning behind it.

WHFB:
number of users with 2 posts: 9
number of users with 3 posts: 3
total number of posts: 103
illegal posts: 15

WH40K:
number of users with 2 posts: 24
number of users with 3 posts: 4
number of users with 4 posts: 4
number of users with 8 posts: 1
number of users with 9 posts: 1
total number of posts: 188
illegal posts: 59

All the time and effort you put into researching that when you could have just let myself or another mod know via PM and we could take care of it. I feel obligated to remind you that we can only do so much, we volunteer for this job and sometimes real life gets a bit busy, especially around the holidays. Not to sound as though I'm making excuses, but yeah, I think they're valid in this instance.

Well, I would like to thank everyone for expressing their concerns. Seriously, this isn't me being sarcastic.

However, Sid is right. There's only so much we can realistically do, firstly, and secondly, Adam is the only one who programs for the site. Period. I've gotten a number of *extremely* generous offers from users who code and passed them onto Adam, but he is understandably leery about giving people unfettered access to his baby.

Regarding new site features, all I can say is that Adam is working on it. This, being Bartertown, remains a volunteer effort on the part of the moderators. The money made from advertising goes to cover the costs of running the site.

Yes, we know that many of you would be willing to pay a few $$ a month for premium services, and we'd love to be able to instamatically provide those. However, we all work full-time jobs and have families as well as operating Bartertown. We don't have the time or the money to devote to Bartertown without jeopardizing our existing livelihoods.

As far as the spamming users go, let me give you all a hint: EMAIL ME. You're all bitching about Rule #12, great, I get it. You want to actually help out, then let me know. Let Morlock or another mod know. We do in fact keep lists of people who spam the boards and commit other offenses against Bartertown.
Bitching may make you feel better but it changes nothing.

So, here's what we're going to do: Morlock and I will, after a unilateral discussion over AIM, delete all posts from any user who violates that rule. We shall also post their name publically for the appropriate rule violation. You wanna help out, great. Let us know if you find someone you think is breaking that, or any other, rule of Bartertown. I will amend Rule 12 accordingly.

This will cause the sudden spat of "advice giving" to halt as well.

Oh, and Sid: I do apologize for not communicating better - you're not the only one who does anything around here. You're the one who can get the chat to work.
I'll see what I can do to make myself more 'visible' on the site.

Thanks for the responses. Yes I am passionate and no I have not contacted you or anyone else because I know that you all volunteer and that you are all busy.

My suggestions were there only because it might be easier to spend the time writing some new code then to patrol the boards.

You are right about threatening to leave isn't the way to get change, unless a whole lot of regulars get tired of things and start walking away.

Really, we all know that there is little chance of anything being done, but it is nice to be able to vent.

I will begin to send you things when I see multi posts and eBay ads.

Ekister

Well i didn't intend to start a general bitch session thread, though it may have gone that way. I just wanted to draw attention to an issue that was bothering me. I appreciate that the issue has been addressed.

For whatever reason, i had been under the impression that this rule wasn't a high priority for enforcement. If that's not the case, then I'll be more than happy to start PMing people when i see this sort of violation in the future.


BTW insidius, the numbers i posted were the output of a script. I didn't go through and actually count how many times people posted. I justed pressed enter and copied/pasted part of the output into my post.