OrkLord -- Everyone should read

[MagickalMemories]

Let me start by saying that I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF OF THIS ANYMORE. I am saying what I claim to be the truth, based on my reputation. All claims I make here can NOT be verified and you should use your own judgement in determining what YOU think about it.

That being said, I DID email a moderator and he informed me that it would be okay to post this here, as long as I stated that I had no proof and that you should make your own judgement.


A little over a year ogo (14 months, maybe), I arranged a trade with OrkLord. He was new here and I was going to be buying a bunch of plastics on sprue and other stuff (Land Speeders and Dreads are all I remember, but I DO recall that I'd be paying over $100 for what I'd be getting, which was $400 or more retail). He would only deal via PM's., No email, as he "didn't want it to get out to spammers."
Everything was claimed to be in blister, unassembled bare metal, or untouched on sprue.
After we made an arrangement, he wanted me to pay first.
Since I was an established bartertowner and he wasn't, I told him that I was not comfortable with that.
I asked for his phone number so I could call him (on MY own dime). He agreed.
Well, when I called, I got some sort of answering machine or system. I left a message with my number, saying that he could call me or email me & tell me what would be a good time to call & I'd call back.
About 5 to 10 minutes later, I got a call. Caller ID didn't work on it, so I assume it was blocked.

We talked and he REALLY wanted to get paid first, since he was selling and not trading. During the course of the conversation, he mentioned other things he had that hadn't been listed in his post. Some, I was interested in and we increased the amount of the sale.
CRAZY good deals (Landspeeder on sprue for $5, I remember)
In the end, I remained firm (I promised him a GLOWING feedback to be left the very DAY I received the package) and he agreed to ship first.

That's when the fun started.

About a week after the phone call, I PMed him.
Oh, he'd been busy at work and unable to get to the post office. Things were slowing down and he'd get them out this weekend.

Tuesday after the weekend I emailed, asking if he'd gotten them out.

Oops. He forgot all about it.

Then he was busy again, but he'd be sure to get it out tomorrow.

Oops. Still busy. Out in the next couple days, for sure.

Nope. Hopefully this weekend. He REALLY wanted to do the sale and declined my offer to cancel it.

A couple weeks of "Oops, I forgot's and/or Too busy to get there's" followed.

Finally, he shipped it priority "yesterday."

A week later, when I emailed him, it turned out that he'd mistaken someone elses for mine & mine was left behind. "Oops." He'd have his wife ship it out tomorrow. Throwing in an assembled model (something polastic & expensive like a Landspeeder or something) for my trouble.

Darn. She forgot to.

She was definitely shipping it tomorrow and he was also including a dread on sprue for my trouble (that's TWO free models).
(Of course, at this point I'd written off any possiblity of getting the models and celebrating the fact that I didn't pay first)

Wife sent it out. He double checked, it really is out... but she forgot the insurance & delivery confirmation I'd asked for & offered to compensate him for after so many shipping troubles.

A week later I emailed him. The again, and again, etc.
He stopped responding.
I called once (maybe twice, but likely only once) and had to leave another message. I never got an answer.
I sent a final email PM (this was all done via PM's not emails) saying that I thought he was trying to scam me and that I didn't appreciate it.

OrkLord disappeared from BTwon for a LONG time.
He's back and posting in the 40K section.
I don't trust him and I recommend you don't, either.

All my proof was lost with my old PM's at the server switch.... actually, I only kept one PM from him to ensure I remembered his trade name.... but it was lost.

Eric

Let me finish by saying again that I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF OF THIS ANYMORE. I am saying what I claim to be the truth, based on my reputation. All claims I make here can NOT be verified and you should use your own judgement in determining what YOU think about it.

[casiowiz]

I curious as to why the moderators would allow you to place this up at all. This is effectively a bad trader report that doesn't meet the rules:

a) There wasn't a trade that was conducted. So basically he just jerked you around.

b) You don't have any proof. You admit that freely, but others have been warned / suspended for this same type of report in the bad traders section.

Not trying to knock you Magical Memories, but I am curious as to the moderators apparent "bending" for this post and not others.

[insidius]

It's a poll, not an accusation.

[Linrandir]

Truth told, the type of post didn't factor into my decision to allow this. First of all, MM is being very specific in stating that he has no evidence to support his assertions.
Secondly, he took the time to email me and present his case. The overwhelming majority of people who post in the bad trader forum are new people who don't bother reading the rules, get pissed off and slap something up there hoping to smear their erstwhile trading partner.

Thirdly, I've been keeping a close eye on the various scams and stupid things scammers do to try and fool people...for example, I recently took a chance on a certain individual from Canada with a string of bad references who contacted me about my crazy INQ project. He agreed to send first at my request and hey...that was over 7 weeks ago!
I've decided I don't care for people maliciously yanking around their trade partners, it's akin to waiting around for some poor innocent sucker to fall for "sure, I'll ship first/pay first/whatever" and getting screwed. Why? because it drags Bartertown's good name that we have ALL worked for through the virtual mud.

Righto. rant over.

[casiowiz]

Lin,

You're the boss. Whatever you say goes.....and that's fine with me....however, I still don't see any difference. He might have asked first, but it still doesn't meet the standards of the rules. If the rules are changed, that's fine but personally I think Orklord is getting the fuzzy side of the lollipop. He could share his side of the story and say "I send MM all his stuff, and he still hasn't sent payment!" Who's guilty of what then? Without email history it is basically a big steamy pile of crap.

I could say lots of things that were wildy false, but preface them with "I don't have any proof." Now, I have lots of good references and people would tend to believe me (within reason of course!). I know we're not in court and it is just trading silly little miniatures, but all of a sudden you're "guilty until proven innocent." I always thought that is why the rules were the way they are, so that there wouldn't be so big of a rush just to bash somebody. Now, I'm all about hanging an innocent man, so to speak, to make sure we get all the guilty parties, but we could end up smashing an innocent persons reputation if we're not careful.

Of course, I'm not the boss. If that's what you want to do fine by me. I'm just trying to show what it looks like to the objective observer. I have no dog in the hunt one way or another. I don't ship first to anybody (same time for those with great references like me) and I don't trade with people with no (or very few) references who won't ship first. I was just making a point that it was kind of weird.

Neal

[insidius]

As far as I'm concerned you ARE guilty until proven innocent when it comes to trading.

That's the whole reason we have the whole 'lowest feedback ships first' house rule around here, right?

My first few trades I would always send first, simply because I wanted a smooth transaction and, well, I was new and naive.

After being ripped off, I assume you're going to rip me off from the very first email; that's why I do net research before i commit to a deal, do background checks on my trading peers, and search other forums for their username/email address.

It's nothing personal, and I expect the same. Generally, I won't trade unless i feel completely comfortable with the person I'm trading with.

I just don't want to see anyone else get ripped off or scammed, myself included.

[MagickalMemories]

I'll tell you, Casio... I have a lot of respect for you.
First of all, your rating speaks for itself.
Secondly, I've seen you around so much and see how you are that I like you without knowing you.

There is no "but" here...

...and I'm not sucking up, either.

I'm simply stating that, though I take a different viewpoint, I respect your opinion.

Maybe a little insight will help?

So many people seem to have been trying to scam people lately that I've got my scam sensors in overload. I really try to temper myself and I don't speak up about it often, unless it's to validate someone's opinion based on information given.

This time, though, I know what I experienced. It was not simply being jerked around or dropped mid trade. I believe that Homeboy here was trying to run a game on me. I know it like I know the sun will rise tomorrow.
I have no proof but faith.

All the classic signs were there. This guy tried hard to get me to pay first. It wasn't like he asked and I declined. He stated repeatedly that he'd really feel more comfortable if I paid first, considering what a great deal I was getting. Tried to get me to pay half up front. When I told him, adamantly, that I would not pay anything up front and that we could cancel the deal with no hard feelings if he wasn't comfortable with that, he declined. He said he trusted me, it's just that he really needs the money, blah blah blah... Am I sure I can't be convinced otherwise? After all I (allegedly) had his home number which I had "proof" was a real number.... blah blah blah...

As for it being a bad trader report... It's anything BUT.
It's been stated by Lin that people who want to say "Hi. I sent my items to John Doe over 3 weeks ago and now he's stopped contact. Anyone know what's going on?" can do so in the M & M folder because they're not accusing him of anything.

I don't believe I actually accused him of scamming. I merely stated that he should be watched by anyone who wants to trade with him.

I sent a final email PM (this was all done via PM's not emails) saying that I thought he was trying to scam me and that I didn't appreciate it.

That's the closest I came in my previous post... and I was merely relaying what I said to him at that time. I wasn't saying it in there because I can't prove we ever negotiated a deal.

Hope this helps to clear things up a bit. Sorry if it seems sporadic, as it was written half before and half after dinner and a few errands.


Eric

[MagickalMemories]

Okay. I personally PMed Orklord and sent him this message:

Your presence would be appreciated in the Messages & Miscellany section of BTown. There's a thread with YOUR username in it.

Now, he has the opportunity to come in here and say his piece on it.

Eric

[GearHead]

I don't think there's anything wrong with this. It's not a BTR per se, since Eric's just been getting jerked around with no actual trade taking place. Personally, I despise people who lead you on for a while and then disappear (you know who you are.) At least I've never had to deal with one this bad before. I for one appreciate the heads-up.