Bartertown.com

Look I've been trading here, and a few other places a long time, so this is a small rant.

Need a picture of an assembled model. Ok.

Primed? Sure.

Painted? yeah thats a must.


But seriously, I gotta draw the line at new on sprue, or in the box. If I tell you its new on sprue, its new on sprue(or box, or blister). I'm NOT taking a picture of it. I mean seriously folks, I get no one wants to be screwed or scammed, but I draw the line there.

That does seem to be rather extreme. I can understand if there are multi-posed metals and the person wants to be sure which pose. But plastics on sprue? Hoops. I've been here long enough not to have to jump through them.

I would agree with that. Unless it's something like a character that has older version, or, as Creeper said, something like Sternguard Vets, where there are multiple poses, that's kind of ridiculous. Even in that last case, can't they just ask which pose it is?

Generally speaking your absolutely right.
Gotta play the devil's advocate here because I DID get taken here on this site by someone who told me they had a new on sprue assault marine box set that was missing only the box. I did not ask for pictures because all I needed to do was go to GW site and look up assault marines and I could see what came on the sprue. When I got the package from the person I traded with, I found that there were a lot of parts missing from the sprue as they had picked off the parts they wanted (this included all the heads and seargeant weapons) and sent me what was left on the sprue. A picture of the sprue would have showed that the person lied and that it was missing far more then "just the box" and might have made a difference in whether or not I would have traded. At the very least, I would not have put all the extra bits in to give them a pleasant surprise.
Your right though, people like that are pretty rare here and most are honest when they say new on sprue. Even after being cheated like that, I highly doubt I would ask anyone to supply pics of new on sprue stuff because I still have faith in the honesty of the majority of the people here.

What Evil went through is the exact reason that I won't TOTALLY call someone out for asking for pics of "on sprue" items.
What I'd do, though, is send them pics & ask how they know *I* took the pic. Could just be something I dredged up online. After all, since GW stopped their bit service, they don't keep pics of every sprue available on their site like they used to. A number of people have taken to collecting pics of sprues for reference.

I think ref score should be a factor in determining whether or not you ask the guy for "on sprue" pics. Sorry to you lower rated traders. That isn't meant as a SLIGHT towards you as much as it's a compliment to the vet traders. They've been around long enough to have earned that benefit of the doubt.

Carmachu, I think it's unreasonable for someone to ask you for pics of "on sprue" or "MIB" items. I would NOT find it unreasonable, on the other hand, to ask Evil Inc (nothing personal - I'm only picking you because you have a relatively low rating right now and happened to post right above me).

KWIM?

Eric

EVIL INC wrote:Generally speaking your absolutely right.
Gotta play the devil's advocate here because I DID get taken here on this site by someone who told me they had a new on sprue assault marine box set that was missing only the box. I did not ask for pictures because all I needed to do was go to GW site and look up assault marines and I could see what came on the sprue. When I got the package from the person I traded with, I found that there were a lot of parts missing from the sprue as they had picked off the parts they wanted (this included all the heads and seargeant weapons) and sent me what was left on the sprue. A picture of the sprue would have showed that the person lied and that it was missing far more then "just the box" and might have made a difference in whether or not I would have traded. At the very least, I would not have put all the extra bits in to give them a pleasant surprise.
Your right though, people like that are pretty rare here and most are honest when they say new on sprue. Even after being cheated like that, I highly doubt I would ask anyone to supply pics of new on sprue stuff because I still have faith in the honesty of the majority of the people here.

The situation you are describing is one that should get a BTR. If he said he was sending you X, and he sent you X-1, then he didn't send you X. So you were promised assault marines new on sprue just missing a box. If you got the sprue and it was missing parts, that is no longer new on sprue. I'd call them on it.

EVIL INC wrote:Generally speaking your absolutely right.
Gotta play the devil's advocate here because I DID get taken here on this site by someone who told me they had a new on sprue assault marine box set that was missing only the box. I did not ask for pictures because all I needed to do was go to GW site and look up assault marines and I could see what came on the sprue. When I got the package from the person I traded with, I found that there were a lot of parts missing from the sprue as they had picked off the parts they wanted (this included all the heads and seargeant weapons) and sent me what was left on the sprue.

But thats not new on sprue by any definiation. If he had said "I have a sprue that will make 5 assualt marines, but bits x,y, and z are missing" prior to the deal, its no big deal. In fact if it were my sprue, I can see someone wanting a picture.

I'm talkin NEW. On. Sprue. Or in a shrink wrapped box.

I think you missed the point.

Seems like he's saying that even "NOS" can require pics at times, since people can lie.

Eric

Exactly.
BTW, I was generous and gave him a neutral ref but that is another story, I just used it as an example of why "nos" can be misleading because someone can lie or use the misintrepration that the parts sent to me WERE new on the sprue, the sprue was just not full.
Likewise, you can re-shrinkwrap stuff after opening it and taking stuff out if you have a wrapper machine (easily gotten). People can twist words, purposely leave words out leading you to believe a falsehood without actually telling you the falsehood but a picture says a thousand words. Even if as MM said, there is no way to tell if the pic is a copy paste from somewhere else or an actual one someone took themselves, it still shows what is being given.
If someone sends you a picture of a full sprue, they are flat out telling you it is full. On the other hand, telling me its a NoS assault marine unit missing the box, they only ommitted other parts that were missing and did not actually say the words "all the parts are there" so he could claim that I only "misunderstood" him. Had I gotten a picture of the sprue, I would have seen and if he had provided a picture of a full sprue, he could not use any loopholes. Live and learn.
Of course, as MM said, refs are usually a good way to tell (although the person in my case had hundreds of good trade refs so even that is not a perfect guideline). Generally though, most here will not do such things and can be taken at their word. If someone asks you for a pic, they are not trying to be a jerk, they are only being extra carefull so I would cut them slack If I dont have a camera, I would just find a picture online and tell them it is "as shown in this picture" and explain that I couldnt give an "actual" one of my stuff. No reason to get bent out of shape.

EVIL INC wrote:On the other hand, telling me its a NoS assault marine unit missing the box, they only ommitted other parts that were missing and did not actually say the words "all the parts are there" so he could claim that I only "misunderstood" him.

Please, do keep one thing in mind, however:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470

Rule 4a: You are also responsible for accurately describing all items that you are trading or selling.
That includes version, condition, assembly status, converted or not, painted or not, any missing pieces and any other information you think might be helpful. Failure to do so may result in the other party filing a Backout Trader or Bad Trader report against you.

"Misunderstanding" on your part or not, it is THEIR responsbility to communicate all pertinent information regarding the items they are trading.

Even if they were trading "primed" models which turned out to be horribly (thick) painted models which were then primed over, you were misled as they did not indicate the "primed over paint" aspect of it.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:

EVIL INC wrote:On the other hand, telling me its a NoS assault marine unit missing the box, they only ommitted other parts that were missing and did not actually say the words "all the parts are there" so he could claim that I only "misunderstood" him.

Please, do keep one thing in mind, however:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470

Rule 4a: You are also responsible for accurately describing all items that you are trading or selling.
That includes version, condition, assembly status, converted or not, painted or not, any missing pieces and any other information you think might be helpful. Failure to do so may result in the other party filing a Backout Trader or Bad Trader report against you.

"Misunderstanding" on your part or not, it is THEIR responsbility to communicate all pertinent information regarding the items they are trading.

Even if they were trading "primed" models which turned out to be horribly (thick) painted models which were then primed over, you were misled as they did not indicate the "primed over paint" aspect of it.

Eric

I'd say that last part is going a bit too far. After all, a person could have received said models in trade, and decided he really had no use for them, so he put them back up for trade; not knowing that the models were primed with paint underneath them.

I can't agree, IH.
Note my description:

Even if they were trading "primed" models which turned out to be horribly (thick) painted models which were then primed over, you were misled as they did not indicate the "primed over paint" aspect of it.

Nobody looks at a mini that had paint gobbed onto it, then was primered over, and can't tell.

Regardless, though, as a trader it is YOUR job to ensure that what you're trading is correct and accurate. If it is not, it is YOUR repsonsibility to fix it. Otherwise, everyone who ever sends the wrong stuff could rely on "Oh. Sorry. I got it in a trade and never used it. So, I didn't look at it that closely. Oh, well."

If you are representing something in a trade, then it's your job to know what your trading.

Eric

The paint doesn't necessarily have to be gobbed on. I've gotten primed metal models that looked fine except the primer used was of the gloss variety. Stripped the models to find that they had paint underneath the primer. No big deal, cause the paint stripper took it all off. When someone tells me a model is primed, I ask for pics. This is so I can see if any detail has been lost. I also ask if the models are metal or plastic.

While it is the sellers responsibility to accurately describe the condition, if the seller is 13 years old or younger, they might not know every thing that should be addressed and may omit something they shouldn't have. That is why I always advise people to get a picture, or barring that, ask detailed questions.

Pics of sprues is not a silly request. If a person isn't familiar with the hobby he might have an old sprue of assault marines, instead of the new one. Example, I've been looking for the last edition dwarf warriors, guy contacted me and said he had what I wanted. I asked for a pic of the box to make sure they were right. Sure enough, the ones he had were the current edition and not the edition I wanted. And a simple box picture was all it took to confirm it.

The buying and selling of items on the internet by people that young should really be supervised by an adult (or at least a mature older sibling) in my opinion and those would easily be able to tell it a model has had a horrible paint job overdone by a mangled primer even if a young child could not tell it.
You also gave a new reason for pics of boxes and sprues that we had not previously mentioned (and I had not thought about).

Ironhide wrote:
I'd say that last part is going a bit too far. After all, a person could have received said models in trade, and decided he really had no use for them, so he put them back up for trade; not knowing that the models were primed with paint underneath them.

Doesnt matter. YOU are still responsible.

For example, months and months ago I got 2 trukks NOS- too good a deal to pass up, but never have gotten around to the project, I traded them to someone else for a game book I was looking for. I could have just slapped a label on the box and sent it, but I opened it(I neevr opened it when I got it) inspected it, resealed it and sent it.

*I* am responsible at that point, not the previous guy.