GW 40k Ork FAQ revised today - get yer deffrollas!

[carmachu]

I was actually in agreement. When you said... errr... what you said... I had the emboldened thought in mind.

Eric

Actually its more for teh benefits of the doubteers who ask why are you killing the monolith and not going for phase out.

[bluemeenie]

Course, since my army only has 5 lascannons in it...........................

Is that buy choice?


last 2000 pt guard army Iplayed had about 3-4 laz can's plus 2 lemon Russes with their battle cannons and front Lascannons plus like 4 valks and I think a chimera or 2....

If you don't think that, that is more then enough to counteract a couple of BW's and some trukks over 2-3 turns then get some new dice.


Yes maybe one might get the charge and if lucky get it on a Lemon Russ but honestly unless it's the trukk carrying the Nobs once my transports start falling apart I'm not leaving whole units stranded by themselves to get a charge on a LR.



My buddy plays vinilla SM's

1 demolisher
2 predators (w/lascan)
(or is it 2 demolishers/1 predator)
2 or 3 drop pods
2 dreadnaughts
the mech with that stupid mobile turret

and then he has his couple of tactical squads and command squad and if I remember correctly a dev with a couple of HB and maybe a MM or Las depending on points. (and this army feels light so i know I'm missing something)


Do you think he has a problem with my battlewagons?



Learn to change your tactics not moan about something most people were doing anyway that they just now clarified on.



If your only solution is to pull out 5 Deamon princes then I don't know what to tell you.


Give me any army and a full range of models to pull from and play and I'll take on a BW with DR list anyday.


Now Nidzilla army is a whole other story....man that thing is tough for orcs. Gotta learn to take out the little stuff first, instead of wasting my shots on friggen str 10 guys.

[MagickalMemories]

EZ-
I haven't played against any but - ONE GAME - before everyone decided that, surely, tank shock and ramming were different, I played a 3 BWagon list in my game group with Ramming Rollas.
Know what? They didn't do squat. They didn't make it there.
Since the new FAQ has been out all of 2 days, I haven't had the opportunity to use it.

Also, you're complaining about it against all these units... These are the same units that it could do the same thing to BEFORE the FAQ. The only difference, now, are the vehicles.

Honestly -and this is no insult- it sounds like you're p!ssed that you can't hide your infantry from them in vehicles any more. Your points don't come across as objective and from a neutral p.o.v. They sound like a reaction from someone whose armies have to "deal with" a new threat that won't be simple.

FWIW, I have 3 armies. Orks, SM and CSM. I have more than that available to me, that I play, in my gaming group. Orks are VERY popular in my group. I WILL have to face these... often...


Eric

[blackspade]

I have never been a fan of the deff rollas, mainly because they are one of the few weapons on vehicles that can effect multiple units of troops and vehicles in one turn.
The fact is that the rollas are super cheep for what they can do and they are on a vehicle with a front armor of 14 which makes a death or glory attack dicey for any poor trooper.
Additionally, since it is not expressly called a weapon, there is no way to destroy it on the vehicle damage chart.
I have also seen folks use it to drive over buildings and all sorts of wierdness.
A point cost increase, while it will not happen until the next codex (if then), would be in order.

One of the bigger issues with the 'wagons is the cheep buffs that you can give it, namely the Rolla and the forcefield as well as the huge numbers of weapons that can be put on it.
Not only that but it can pack a ton of the hardest models in the game that can charge after the thing rolls over everything in its path.

[MagickalMemories]

blackspade, I find myself in partial agreement.
I do NOT think a point increase is in order. It's pretty pricey already.
I could understand some sort of limit on it in future incarnations, though. For example, it gets a total of d6 attacks per tank Shock/Ram and, when that's done, so is it. Each it resolved individually. When it gets past it's current target, it continues.

Example:

I declare a 13" Tank Shock move.

I move 4" and BAM! I hit a Land Raider.
I roll a d6 and get a 5.
I roll my first hit on the LR. I get a 6.
Woo Hoo Penetrating him (10 + 6 = 16)
On the chart, I roll a 1.
I use my second attach & I get another pen.
This time I roll a 5 or 6.
BAM! Land Raider is dead.
I've used 2 of my 5 attacks this round.
My opponent deploys his squishy squad OUTSIDE of the range of my TS move, so I continue through until I hit a Rhino.
I blow it up with my first attack.
Now, 3 attacks are used. 2 remain.
MY opponent has a 10 man squad in the Rhino & can't get out of my way.
He takes the remaining 2 attacks.

Maybe, if he decides to do a DoG attack on me, I get another d6 against the unit.

This would be a reasonable compromise to me, if it was in the rulebook. Maybe d3+3, though, instead of d6.


Eric

[blackspade]

25 points does not seem like a lot for an auto-hit s10 weapon that gets a d6 wounds per unit.
What you proposed though, seems entirely reasonable.

I think that I would be OK with the vehicle ramming if it inflicted one S10 hit to a vehicle, but a d6 is a bit OTT.
The Rolla seems on its face to be an anti-infantry weapon, not an a back-door vehicle killer.

blackspade, I find myself in partial agreement.
I do NOT think a point increase is in order. It's pretty pricey already.
I could understand some sort of limit on it in future incarnations, though. For example, it gets a total of d6 attacks per tank Shock/Ram and, when that's done, so is it. Each it resolved individually. When it gets past it's current target, it continues.

Example:

I declare a 13" Tank Shock move.

I move 4" and BAM! I hit a Land Raider.
I roll a d6 and get a 5.
I roll my first hit on the LR. I get a 6.
Woo Hoo Penetrating him (10 + 6 = 16)
On the chart, I roll a 1.
I use my second attach & I get another pen.
This time I roll a 5 or 6.
BAM! Land Raider is dead.
I've used 2 of my 5 attacks this round.
My opponent deploys his squishy squad OUTSIDE of the range of my TS move, so I continue through until I hit a Rhino.
I blow it up with my first attack.
Now, 3 attacks are used. 2 remain.
MY opponent has a 10 man squad in the Rhino & can't get out of my way.
He takes the remaining 2 attacks.

Maybe, if he decides to do a DoG attack on me, I get another d6 against the unit.

This would be a reasonable compromise to me, if it was in the rulebook. Maybe d3+3, though, instead of d6.


Eric

[Ironhide]

It's called developing new strategies and tactics to deal with the problem. The same list you used to use against Orks, now needs to be revamped to deal with this new tactic. It is that simple.

So have u played against it?



Yeah I'll take heavy weps on my deathguard....waaaait can't do that... I'll take a dred....oh wait arm 12.... I'll take more monstorus creatures....oh have 3 and they got ground up last time so....

Oh u mean build an entire new army to deal with a FAQ change? Yeah that sounds like a plan!


And again ironhide have YOU played against it?

The FAQ'd way is how my gaming group has played it all along. So yeah, I have. MM Attack bikes, Preds, and TL AC Razorbacks seem to work fine for me. Awww...your Deathguard/Lash Prince army no longer works well! Last I checked Chaos had Oblits, Havocs, and Raptors. Maybe you need to relook at the usefulness of those units.

[EZ mac]

u mean my lashless army? Mark of nugle= no lash, which I said in another post.

It's called developing new strategies and tactics to deal with the problem. The same list you used to use against Orks, now needs to be revamped to deal with this new tactic. It is that simple.

So have u played against it?



Yeah I'll take heavy weps on my deathguard....waaaait can't do that... I'll take a dred....oh wait arm 12.... I'll take more monstorus creatures....oh have 3 and they got ground up last time so....

Oh u mean build an entire new army to deal with a FAQ change? Yeah that sounds like a plan!


And again ironhide have YOU played against it?

The FAQ'd way is how my gaming group has played it all along. So yeah, I have. MM Attack bikes, Preds, and TL AC Razorbacks seem to work fine for me. Awww...your Deathguard/Lash Prince army no longer works well! Last I checked Chaos had Oblits, Havocs, and Raptors. Maybe you need to relook at the usefulness of those units.

[mrrshann618]

Personally the only beef I have with a Deffrolla working on rams in the ability to do d6 hits, when ramming only 1". As already stated earlier the potential to chain ram especially against transports just seems way overpowering.

As for orks needing something to handle AV14, they have always had the ability to deal with AV14, it is situational (just like everything else) but it has always been there.
Just becuase someone loads their army full of melta guns doesn't always mean that they get to use all of their melta-guns. Don't forget that wound allocation may take that weapon out before even firing.

Here is another thing to look at. Since a ram is a special type of tank shock, does that means that mean that trucks with a reinforced ram can now ram, since a ram is a tank shock?

[getupandgo]

I have to quote a friend, when I told him the ruling:

"Leave it to orks to invent a close combat railgun."

a railgun only has ONE str 10 hit, and it has to roll to achieve even that. And it costs 50 points.

[MagickalMemories]

Here is another thing to look at. Since a ram is a special type of tank shock, does that means that mean that trucks with a reinforced ram can now ram, since a ram is a tank shock?

Of course!

a railgun only has ONE str 10 hit, and it has to roll to achieve even that. And it costs 50 points.

And it can safely hit you from SIX FEET away.

Eric

[don_mondo]

blackspade, I find myself in partial agreement.
I do NOT think a point increase is in order. It's pretty pricey already.
I could understand some sort of limit on it in future incarnations, though. For example, it gets a total of d6 attacks per tank Shock/Ram and, when that's done, so is it. Each it resolved individually. When it gets past it's current target, it continues.

Example:

I declare a 13" Tank Shock move.

I move 4" and BAM! I hit a Land Raider.
I roll a d6 and get a 5.
I roll my first hit on the LR. I get a 6.
Woo Hoo Penetrating him (10 + 6 = 16)
On the chart, I roll a 1.
I use my second attach & I get another pen.
This time I roll a 5 or 6.
BAM! Land Raider is dead.
I've used 2 of my 5 attacks this round.
My opponent deploys his squishy squad OUTSIDE of the range of my TS move, so I continue through until I hit a Rhino.
I blow it up with my first attack.
Now, 3 attacks are used. 2 remain.
MY opponent has a 10 man squad in the Rhino & can't get out of my way.
He takes the remaining 2 attacks.

Maybe, if he decides to do a DoG attack on me, I get another d6 against the unit.

This would be a reasonable compromise to me, if it was in the rulebook. Maybe d3+3, though, instead of d6.

Eric

First of all, where does it say it's limited to d6 per Tank Shock/Ram MOVE? Each time it hits a different unit/vehicle, it's a new Tank Shock/Ram attempt.

Second, the first vehicle would have to die to a Destroyed - Exploded result for the ramming vehicle to continue on. If it's a Destroyed - Wrecked result, the ramming vehicle is stopped there. So if it is a transport, and it suffers a 6 result, the embarked unit cannot avoid the deffrolla, as they have to go in the transport footprint that you're going to be driving through after the transport blows up.

[bluemeenie]

not only that but they and the ramming vehicle would take a str hit from the explosion also.



I don't have the rules handy right now but if you actually hit your target and it is destroyed does the vehicle keep moving??

[porkuslime]

Destroyed with an explosion, the BW keeps a rollin'.... destroyed and wrecked, BW stops dead.

-P

[MagickalMemories]

First of all, where does it say it's limited to d6 per Tank Shock/Ram MOVE? Each time it hits a different unit/vehicle, it's a new Tank Shock/Ram attempt.

You took my description out of context. You missed the emboldened part below:

I could understand some sort of limit on it in future incarnations, though. For example, it gets a total of d6 attacks per tank Shock/Ram and, when that's done, so is it. Each it resolved individually. When it gets past it's current target, it continues.

As for the description of continuing on a "5".... Doesn't matter. Change my example to a "6," then.
My bad on the rules, though.

@ everyone/anyone:

Off hand... If, on a "5" the vehicle is wrecked, it becomes difficult terrain. It's no longer a vehicle. Why couldn't the BWagon run over it with a "Difficult/Dangerous Terrain" roll?
Is that some limitataion on the rules with Ramming? I don't "Ram" very often, so I'm not familiar with that.
Eric