I've said it before....

[Ironhide]

The thing is, the person could contact the other trader, resolve the situation, and then still leave a negative ref. After all, if the guy feels like it was a big hassle and decides he will never trade with that person again because of a bad experience; then he is within his rights to leave a negative ref.

We may not like it, but the truth is that not everyone is kind and considerate. In fact some people are too considerate. As can be seen with a certain converter/modeler we all know.

It also occurs to me that in the past we have berated people for not acting quick enough, now we are getting on them for acting too hasty. Can't have it both ways.

[EVIL INC]

A pain in the rear for the tech adept here but would mybe a screen come up when you go to make a neg reference asking if you have contacted/attempted contact with the person to click yes or no so it is recorded with the reference be a good idea?
just a thought. Would not stop anyone from excersizing their right to leave it without trying but could serve as a suggestion/reminder for the more considerate members.
Feel free to boo me out of the thread for that.

[Ironhide]

@EVIL INC:I take it you weren't here for the last update to the ITL(reference system). Needless to say, the ITL was down for months and it sucked.

So what do ya'll think, want to make a change to the ITL?

[Stanislav]

Leave it alone....please.

[EVIL INC]

Me slinks away before the trash starts getting thrown at me.

[MagickalMemories]

Me slinks away before the trash starts getting thrown at me.

Don't let them scare you off. : )
Your idea was valid and had merit. Your length of time on the site just means that you weren't here for "The Great ITL Outage."
(Ever notice that major events titled, "The Great..." rarely ever are? Just saying...)
Let's just say, E.I., that any idea that starts with, ends with or even contains the IDEA of messing around with how the ITL works gives every trader who'se been here more than 2 years a serious case of "The Butt Puckers." LOL

In fact some people are too considerate.

GUILTY as charged.

As can be seen with a certain converter/modeler we all know.

I could name a painter, too. : (

I think you guys might have just inspired me to edit my "How to file a Bad Trader Report" article.
A link will follow, when it's updated.

Eric

Eric

[Forsaken Poptart]

[quote="MagickalMemories" "The Butt Puckers." LOL
[/quote]


This sounds like the worst disease ever. EVER.


Really, it should just be policy that you MUST post in the Bad Trader thread BEFORE posting your negative reference (if it's not already)- make your case public, allow discussion, THEN deliver the BTR hammer. It's that simple, and I feel like a lot of potentially ugly situations can be worked out with moderation.

[MagickalMemories]

"The Butt Puckers." LOL

This sounds like the worst disease ever. EVER.

I think the opposite would be worse.

Really, it should just be policy that you MUST post in the Bad Trader thread BEFORE posting your negative reference (if it's not already)- make your case public, allow discussion, THEN deliver the BTR hammer. It's that simple, and I feel like a lot of potentially ugly situations can be worked out with moderation.

Couldn't disagree more.
Posting a BTR is a big deal and can potentially be WORSE than a negative rating.
BTR's should be reserved for people who scam and for only the absolute worst of the non-scammers, IMO.

Eric

[fitterpete]

@Eric
Youre example is of a person breaking the rules ie ITL intimadation.

My example to Kturock is someone who has not broke any rules and if they want to leave the bad ref,you guys won't take it away.As Ironhide said they are well within their rights to leave it too.BUT if they were advised to contact the other trader first by a mod AND the other trader made the trade good ,they may not leave a bad ref in the end.
As for telling new traders to act fast.That is just about paypal disputes, you can file them without leaving a BTR or bad ref.
Also I like Evil's idea some too.Though I still think that is a weaker compromise.
I appreciate that some of you guys think this is somehow gonna step on your rights but if you carefully read my first post I specifically stated that the staff would not be able to stop someone from leaving a bad ref or post a BTR, the staff would just make sure it was done properly.
Maybe it would also cut down on the "you have to post all the PM history to have a BTR" post.I do agree that if everybody would just RTFR before they posted a BTR alot of this crap could be avoided.But let's face it ,the American public are stupid.Every Saturday I have to go out and tell all the soccer parents that they can't park in the alley behind our plant,right under all the signs that say"No Parking Anytime".
Pete

[Forsaken Poptart]

Couldn't disagree more.
Posting a BTR is a big deal and can potentially be WORSE than a negative rating.
BTR's should be reserved for people who scam and for only the absolute worst of the non-scammers, IMO.

Eric

This is true, but I've also seen quite a few posted BTRs get resolved; a few were even amicably!

[kturock]

To OP..
My reply is, why should I have to contact the other trader when he knows he is wrong or at fault, before I leave a neg ref?

He knows he didn't send a mini or minis, so I have to beg him to ship it? He knows he didn't send it. [I believe Evil inc. had/has this problem with another trader.]

Another example, he knows the minis aren't painted as good as he stated in the ad or the pictures only showed some of the models, not all. Some are painted well, but others aren't. He knew it when he tok the pictures and hid the bad models behind the well-painted ones. So I'm supposed to ask him to correct it? He knows he did it.

Another example, he knows he didn't pack the minis well, or used a bad box and the minis got broken and/or crushed. I'm supposed to pm him saying they broke, because you didn't put any padding in the box? Or that he box was a shoebox and was crushed?

I always contact them/him, then I file a negative ref. It's not someone I'd trade with again. Period.
I don't ask them to correct the situation. If he was going to correct it, he wouldn't have caused the problem in the 1st place.

[fitterpete]

kturock try reading my post.This isn't about ANY of the things your talking about ,again.If any of those things happened the staff would say "ok" and let you post.Why is it so important that your BTR gets posted Tuesday instead of Wednesday?
This is about the package that got trashed or the one that got delayed by the post office or any number of things that you have absolutly no control over.
Try this one and please actually read it.
When I got seperated I moved in with my brother, no computer, so I was without a computer.I was working all day and evening(our busy time of year at work) so couldn't get to a public computer(wouldn't know where to find one if I could have anyway).It took me 10 days to have the time to buy a laptop and get internet service at my brothers.If I would have been in the middle of a trade at the time I wouldn't have been able to contact any of my trade partners for anything.
But lets say I was trading with someone and I couldn't send them a DC# when I was supposed to. They decide to post a BTR and leave a neg ref.Now if they had to contact a staff member first he might have been able to email me(which I could get on my phone).Problem solved I don't get a BTR and neg ref.
Besides your "he knows he did it" argument is really mental.But even after they somehow made the trade good you would still be able to leave your neg ref.No one is stopping you.
Pete

[JohnHwangBT]

Out of courtesy, yeah, the party with a problem should contact their partner. That's the only decent thing to do.

Should there be moderation for BTRs, BOs & Negs? I dunno, don't really care.

Maybe I've just been lucky.

[kturock]

kturock try reading my post.This isn't about ANY of the things your talking about ,again.If any of those things happened the staff would say "ok" and let you post.Why is it so important that your BTR gets posted Tuesday instead of Wednesday?
This is about the package that got trashed or the one that got delayed by the post office or any number of things that you have absolutly no control over.
Try this one and please actually read it.
When I got seperated I moved in with my brother, no computer, so I was without a computer.I was working all day and evening(our busy time of year at work) so couldn't get to a public computer(wouldn't know where to find one if I could have anyway).It took me 10 days to have the time to buy a laptop and get internet service at my brothers.If I would have been in the middle of a trade at the time I wouldn't have been able to contact any of my trade partners for anything.
But lets say I was trading with someone and I couldn't send them a DC# when I was supposed to. They decide to post a BTR and leave a neg ref.Now if they had to contact a staff member first he might have been able to email me(which I could get on my phone).Problem solved I don't get a BTR and neg ref.
Besides your "he knows he did it" argument is really mental.But even after they somehow made the trade good you would still be able to leave your neg ref.No one is stopping you.
Pete

I have read you post.

I've stated point by point, the top 3 reasons people leave neg refs.

YOU proposed that all neg refs be reviewed by mods before they were listed.

BTR's are already reviewed by mods. When they are unsubstantiated or not merited by the mods, they delete or edit them.

If you start a trade, WITHOUT notifiing your trade partner, that you are moving, or going on a vactaion, or going out of town, with limited or no internet capability; then yes, you deserve a neg ref..not a BTR.
That you couldn't spend the 5 minutes to post a d/c to a trade partner, says enough. You don't care enough about your trade partner to pm him, says it all.

Now, as far as damage during shipping. It's unstated here, maybe it should be posted, that you are responsible for items until their received.
Sites, like Ebay and Amazon, hold the shipper responsible till the item is/are received. At Amazon, you can't even get paid unless you submit d/c for each item.

In you 'example' you didn't know you were getting seperated? You had no time, somewhere during the trade negtiaons to say to the other trader, "Hey I'm going through some personal problems. I might not be able to send you the d/c right away."? You had time to list all the models. You had time to take and upload pics.

If it gets lost, the d/c or the insurance number will be able to generate a history.
{quick postal news update, the new parcel sorting machines scan EVERY number. Inusrance numbers can be looked up by a window clerk when you go to the post office. The info is on the usps intranet. it supposed to be free to get the info.}


Your "I don't have time" is very irresponsible.
If you don't have time to post a d/c or even to tell you trade partner that you'll be have limited or no access to the internet, then you shouldn't be trading.
You have time to pack the minis, you have time to drop a quick line.


If a package got trashed because you didn't use a strong enough box, because you didn't put any, enough or the correct padding/packing in the box; then yes, it is your fault.
If the package got destroyed, even though you use a strong box, with bubble wrap and stryofoam and foam, then it's an accident.
If you didn't use insurance, then it's your fault. IF YOUR TRADE PARTNER SAYS HE DOESN'T WANT TO PAY THE $2 FOR INSURANCE, THEN IT'S HIS FAULT.

So your' saying, that someone doesn't know what minis he trading and doesn't know he's packed and hasn't, isn't being deceptive.? What big corporation are you a lawyer for? BP could use you in public relations right now. Or are you saying that the trader is incompentant?

[fitterpete]

OK kturock you obviuosly have it in your head that no matter what happens someone deserves a neg ref when something goes wrong.Fine.
Anyone else?
BTW No I didn't know I was getting seperated.One night she came home and said I was out.At the time I don't think I would have said"Oh ,OK well let me get on the computer and notify my trade partners before I leave" Guess that makes me "irresponsible " in your book.
Not real sure what you didn't understand about me not having any computer access either.It wasn't about "not having anytime' it was not having any access.Libraries have certain hours and I was working during them.But I guess that's me being irresponsible again cause I had to work.
Pete